# John Kerry and medal throwing. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 10, 2004, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-kerry-and-medal-throwing/228461 "2004-02-10T15:57:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 4\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![iamme99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/57b2e6/32.png) [@iamme99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamme99)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 10:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-kerry-and-medal-throwing/228461/341 "2004-04-30T10:09:18Z")
> [@Polerius](#): > > Funny: [http://slate.msn.com/id/2099658/](http://slate.msn.com/id/2099658/) I’d love to see the Bush version. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-kerry-and-medal-throwing/228461/342 "2004-04-30T11:28:43Z")
> [@TV time](#): > > No, but now that I have given this incompetent attempt at explanation of what they have come to mean > > TV Only this part of what you wrote was wrong. The rest was lucid to any living creature. ---
**Author:** ![braintree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e7dd6/32.png) [@braintree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/braintree)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2004, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-kerry-and-medal-throwing/228461/343 "2004-05-01T03:39:07Z")
Just when you think an insipid, infuriating thread is thankfully dead, somebody has to revive it. I’ve been guilty of this myself. But I have to hand it to Mr. Moto. There’s no way I’d start this thread up again if I were him. The guy’s intrepid. I could make a few other remarks but I just spent a few bucks becoming a member so I’ll have to lay off. Mr. Moto is an interesting sort of person who has a fascinating value system. And what makes a person interesting is being different from the usual mass of humanity — like Unca Cecil. There aren’t too many people like him, are there? How is Mr. Moto interesting? Let’s look at an abridged version of his OP and then analyze it! > [@Mr. Moto](#): > > … John Kerry earned his medals, every single last one of them. For the record, they include the Silver Star, Bronze Star with Combat V, and three awards of the Purple Heart for his service in combat. > > After returning from the war, though, he became a war protester. During a protest in front of the Capitol Building in 1971, Kerry threw his ribbons (which represent his medals on non-dress uniforms) and the medals of other veterans at the Capitol. … > > …But today, in a frame in his office near that same Capitol Building, those same medals sit displayed in a frame. They occupy a place of honor. They are important to him. > > And I can certainly understand, if he had come to regret his previous actions and wanted to display the medals, I can respect that. But this has been done with no explanation, no clarification, no repudiation of using a national symbol as political theater. And for a public figure of his stature, this is simply not good enough. It’s trying to have it both ways. > > John Kerry, you earned those medals honorably, but understand that in a larger sense they are not your personal property. I could buy a Silver Star tomorrow, but it would not make me a hero. It would make me a fraud. The medal is the thanks of a grateful nation. > > What you did is take that thanks, cast it into the mud, pick it back up, shine it up again, and put it under glass. A lot of people are offended by this. I’m reserving judgment until I get an explanation. Now the thing you’ll notice about this passage is Mr. Moto’s real and genuine anger at Kerry for throwing his ribbons and keeping his medal. In fact, he gets so angry that he slips from discussing Kerry in the third person to addressing him as if they were in the same room and Mr. Moto was giving Kerry a piece of his mind. Wow! That’s angry! No way he’s faking that. Example of his profound ire can be found through all six and counting pages of this thread. Now, I found that more than a little incomprehensible. I mean, here we were in a war with Iraq — a war for which the major justifications have turned out to be complete and utter horseshit — a war in which over 500 soldiers had already died for no good reason and here Mr. Moto is upset over a bunch of ribbons that Kerry threw in 1971. I mean, on the scale of what’s important in life, it seems to me that getting a whole bunch of our people killed today because of actions taken by a president whose been talking out of his asshole is, arguably, a somewhat more important matter than a 33 year-old symbolic political gesture. I mean, it just seems a little off, you know? I tried to raise this issue with Mr. Moto but he kept ignoring both me and our dead. Then he let slip that he had wanted an Iraq war for years before 9/11 and also that he worked in the defense industry. Sensing opportunity, I used this information to goad him into recognition by pointing out that war, even an unjustified debacle of a war, would still have the benefit of putting money in his pocket and suggested that this might have something to do with his rather strange attitude. Here is his response (Post 164): > [@Mr. Moto](#): > > **Braintree** , war is a tragedy. Soldiers inevitably die. Each death of a soldier is a grievous loss to the family and friends involved. > > This may sound heartless, but as wars go, the death toll from this war is pretty low. It is right now at around 1% of the American death toll for Korea, a little less than 1% for Vietnam. > > One of the reasons for the great reduction of loss of life on our side is the great automation of our war. The Tomahawk cruise missile, which I help design systems for, can destroy a target with great accuracy after several hundred miles of flight. It can be launched from a ship safely far at sea or, even more stealthily, from a submarine. > > In the Vietnam era, the same target would have had to be destroyed by bomber and strike aircraft flying from Air Force bases or Navy carriers flying over oftentimes extremely well defended targets. The names of many of the men who flew these missions can be found on the Wall. Others spent time in POW camps. > > I’m proud of what I do, despite sneering from you about my “curious value system.” In my eleven years of service to the Navy as a sailor and defense contractor, I believe I have strengthened our nation and actually saved lives. > > Can you say the same? I’d like to hear about it. > > And put up or shut up about the meeskite thing. The first thing you’ll note about his response, aside from his rather mysterious reference to “the meeskite thing,” is the palpable insincerity of his obvious pro-forma expression of grief over real actual and on-going death which stands in stark contrast to his abundantly sincere anger at John Kerry for throwing a bunch of ribbons. Indeed, Mr. Moto seems to acknowledge this when he begins his second paragraph by noting “That may sound heartless.” He then tries to downplay the amount of suffering by pointing out that, hey, it’s only 500 and then, citing his work on the Tomahawk missile, _ **claims credit for reducing the amount of death** _(!). Wow, now that’s chutzpah. Then, he challenges me to show that I’ve done as much to protect our country as he has by supporting our present cancerous debacle in Iraq. And not just Iraq. Another thing about Mr. Moto you may want to keep in mind while evaluating his position is that he still supports the Vietnam war (post # 143). Think about that: 57,000 Americans dead, millions of Vietnamese dead, (thousands indiscriminately butchered — women, children, old men — in free-fire zones) and this guy still thinks it was a good idea (you know, because we were “saving” Vietnam). But throwing medals? Oh, now THAT’S outrageous!! I think it’s pretty clear what we’re dealing with here, don’t you? A few more observations: Mr. Moto claims that he knows plenty of people who feel the same way he does. Well, first off, self reporting is notoriously unreliable and you can at least square or cube that when it comes to the politically impassioned. Second of all, I think it’s more than fair to say that Mr. Moto has one enormous bug up his joy-hole about the matter and that there exists the distinct possibility that his self-identified group of supporters are quite possibly humoring him. Unfortunately, the really scary possibility is that he’s right because guess whose running the country? Drink? And, finally, to conclude this too-long post, as of today 740 American soldiers are dead in the rapidly deteriorating situation in Iraq. Mr. Moto continues to obsess over John Kerry and his medals. Way to go. ---
**Author:** ![iamme99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/57b2e6/32.png) [@iamme99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamme99)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2004, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-kerry-and-medal-throwing/228461/344 "2004-05-01T04:33:32Z")
> [@braintree](#): > > And, finally, to conclude this too-long post, as of today 740 American soldiers are dead in the rapidly deteriorating situation in Iraq. Mr. Moto continues to obsess over John Kerry and his medals. Way to go. Good post! I understand that Nightline with Ted Koppel is taking the entire show tonight to read the names of all the “coalition” war dead and show their photo’s, one by one. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-kerry-and-medal-throwing/228461.md?page=17)