I don’t see that Kerry ran for Congress in 1970: http://clerk.house.gov/members/electionInfo/1970election.pdf (warning: pdf!) He lost a close(ish) race in 1972 in the 5th district, 111k - 93 k to Republican Martin Linsky. It was the only contested race in the Commonwealth that a Republican won: http://clerk.house.gov/members/electionInfo/1972election.pdf.
If this thread should set the record, do I get a commemorative mug for contributing?
That is complete nonsense and entirely offensive to every citizen of this country. Not only do I not agree for a second that closed-door sessions produce greater amounts of information, we have a right to know what our government and our military are doing in our name. And if you think the wheels of justice were going anywhere, let alone where they should’ve been going (and still aren’t, in several cases), then you are sadly mistaken. Frankly, I’d call what they were doing, a coverup.
And now you’re blaming the exposure of our military’s atrocities for the acts of the terrorists? You really haven’t been paying attention have you? The terrorists have known about the abuses long before we did, and they were cutting off heads long before a single news outlet even knew the name Abu Gahrib.
And don’t presume to know whether or not I’ve talked to veterans. You’d be wrong.
My post was filled with factual descriptors. George W. Bush is grossly incompetent. He’s spent the last 3½ years proving that. He’s driven this economy into the crapper; millions of jobs have been lost; millions more people are without health insurance than in 1999; his administration has exposed a CIA operative, jeopardizing all of her cases, not to mention her life; exposed an internal Al Qaeda spy, setting back his “war on terror” all the way back to the '90s; he’s lied to congress to get his medicare bill passed; lied to the world about false, and in some cases, made-up evidence to send us, along with other nations to WAR! And that’s just scratching the surface of his incompetence.
“Grossly incompetent” is a proveable fact. “Frightening mentality” is absolutely accurate, given the horrors thousands of people have faced due to his policies and actions. He is despicable for having misled us! Do you really contend that liars are not despicable?? He is a liar. That is a fact, not an opinion. About the only opinion in there is ‘idiot’, which, based on all of the above, I have no apology for calling him.
You are right about one thing, though; one of the candidates denigrates his opponent and the other has continually tried to talk about the issues, only to be affronted by continual slader. Except the candidates don’t align the way you imply they do.
Finally, learn how to code or bite the bullet and take the time to preview, slow modem or not. Thank you.
Mr. Moto, stop being reasonable. It throws me off.
Magiver has said that if George W. had been in charge of the war in Vietnam, the gound battles would have been over in a month. I contend that Bush is making the same mistakes that lead to our defeat in Vietnam and I offer the following for your consideration.
Former Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara has published three books examining the mistakes that led to the Vietnam War. (He is largely considered the architect of that war, but nowconsiders it to have been a terrible wrong. In his view, these are the main myths and miscalculations that we made then. (The first of these books was published in 1995.)
McNamara’s 11 lessons (I’ve rearranged the order)
Which of these are parallels to our actions in Iraq?
http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/082904X.shtml
The times…they are a changin’.
A thousand pardons, just like Magiver, I am using twentieth century technology in this twenty-first century world.
Now, onto what I’m able to hit:
Well, testimony doesn’t always lead to conviction. Hell, sometimes it doesn’t even lead to getting laid. But yeah, I’m gonna go out on a limb here and say that what Kerry testified to has been backed up by enough testimony from others who were there to qualify it as “proven”.
Except that I believe, and Kerry’s subsequent statements back me up, as do those of a helluva lot of other people, that he wanted Vietnam to end because he had seen it firsthand, and realized that it was going nowhere fast. Plus, he said that a whole lot of people were breaking, pissing on and otherwise treating shabbily the laws of war. Was he brash and aswagger? Sure. So what?
Sorry, boychik, but closed door sessions do one thing and one thing only: keep shit behind closed doors. Fuck that noise.
A little credit where credit is due. Far more than 250 vets are pissed. Of course, a lot of vets feel that he spoke truth to power, so it winds up being a wash.
Well damn! And here I was, all freshly scrubbed and ready, only to be told that I’ll not change your mind. When that’s really all I ever wanted. Alack, alas and all like that.
And I dunno if you’ve noticed or not, but there are these groups, they call themselves “Veterans for Kerry”. It doesn’t appear (at least, not from where I’m sitting, but my seat’s kinda far in the back and I’m behind a really tall guy) that they feel that stabbed in the back, or that their bloc needs to be fished for.
Um, yeah, he kinda does. I’m not sure if you’ve noticed or not, but there’s an election going on. Eventually Bush fils is gonna hafta start talking about some of the things that he likes to pretend that he did. Or he’s going to lose by an even bigger margin than he is at present.
Newsflash, Skip: He won’t be putting in an appearance.
No. They’re taking out their anger because of his testimony before congress. They have to pretend, though, that it’s his service that they’re pissed about. They’re just too fucking cowardly to come right out and say what’s got their knickers in a twist.
I brought this up way back in the mists of page 10? 12? 8? I honestly don’t remember, and nobody who is bagging on Kerry will remark on it in a more than passing fashion. So, Magiver, New Iskander and anyone else who thinks that Kerry was a shameless glory whore: Do you think that he was anticipating his run 35ish years ago?
And I once again apologize for getting back to this in a less-than-timely fashion.
According tp ‘Elvis L1ves’, Kerry lost election to Congress in 1970 to another Democrat who represented anti-war platform even better.
I never said that Kerry is motivated by political expediency. I said that he advocates his causes to the point of losing touch with reality.
Moderator’s Note: Magiver, don’t tell other posters in GD to “grow some testicles”. I think that falls under the bounds of “discuss[ing] someone’s bowels or genitalia”, and is not exactly relevant here.
Sheesh! Youse guys in GD have the most detailed rules!
I can’t remember the last time I warned a GQ poster about entrails, etc. 
It’s sadly neessary, Sam. Otherwise, Grat Debaters would start whipping out nunchackas, crossbows, illegal assault weapons and 1920’s style death-rays to counter their opponents’ beliefs.
Such is the nature of blind obesience.
Death before defamation!
Isn’t that one of his campaign arguments?
“Vote for me, cause you KNOW I’m grossly incompetent.
Vote for Kerry, and who KNOWS what you’ll get?”
People have a tendency to vote for the known quantity, so look for him to back it up in the coming months…
Well, he hasn’t got anything else!
The only thing he can do is play on the pent up anger a subset of vets are holding onto for John Kerry being the messenger of truth. It’s a disgusting tactic, but nothing new.
Someone who’s less incompetent, because there’s nowhere to go but up where Bush is concerned…
I can only think of one presidential candidate who could do a job worse than Bush, and Dan Quayle ain’t running this year.
And I can’t remember the last time someone suggested that I might need testicles. (Must have been right before he started screaming and begging for mercy.) 
Hell, I don’t even need ovaries.
Let’s have a little fun and cite bushfordummies.com, shall we?
Barney Frank took over the 3rd District seat from Father Drinan when the Vatican ruled that it was inappropriate for priests to hold public office.
magiver, you might want to read this Pulitzer-winning series of articles by Joe Mahr of the Toledo Blade about “Tiger Force” and their actions in Vietnam before you suggest again that that shit never happened, or was only rumor. Kerry in 1971, again, was repeating things he had been told himself directly by those who did it.
Zoe, I’ve been “impressed” by how McNamara has said nothing at all in public about Bush and Iraq. If he really did learn the lessons he has said he did, he’d feel some compulsion to apply them, one might think.
I thought the White House message was that Kerry served with honor and was telling the truth about his record. Atrios suggests that Laura Bush says otherwise in Time magazine:
I wasn’t able to access the linked-to Time article, but if accurate, is she off message, or on hatchet job?
The Time interview with Laura Bush:
That’s all there is on that subject, in what is otherwise a typical fluff interview.
Behold the GOP approach: The factuality of campaign statements isn’t to be discussed, only their negativity.
She means, as I understand it, that poor GeeBubbya (Praise the Leader!) has also suffered, poor baby, the dreadful calumnies of shadowy groups. So she means “fair” in the sense of equal opportunity, rather than “fair” in terms of accuracy.
Insufficiently coached. They’ve done a good job getting everyone else to remember to say that they admire Kerry’s service, but they forgot to pass the talking points to Laura.
Or maybe she just got the Swiftboat Vets version of the memo by accident.
Sadly, that is probably true. All too horribly, horribly true.
I have little doubt that you believe such things, overwhelming evidence to the contrary notwithstanding. Extremists are fully capable of such glaring self-delusions while insisting that they’re just being honest. If you ever had any jot of credibility with clear-thinking people (which I can scarcely credit), now you’ve surely lost even that.
Sam,your posts here have all read just like these foul little turdettes by Jerome Corsi’s co-writer, John O’Neill:
Sam, your postings have always challenged my gag reflex, but in this thread you’ve broken the dam but good.