# John Kerry **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 30, 2014, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-kerry/689608 "2014-05-30T01:07:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2014, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-kerry/689608/21 "2014-05-30T07:13:02Z")
He also seems to be a bit stupid, insulting Snowden to try to get him to listen. Unless that’s the point. Even those most in opposition to Snowden must admit that it’s in his own best interest not to come back to the US and “face” what he did. Acting in your own best interest does not make you a coward. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2014, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-kerry/689608/22 "2014-05-30T13:25:36Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Acting in your own best interest does not make you a coward. Um… yes, actually, often it does. Merriam Webster provides this sentence in defining the word: _The soldiers who ran as soon as the first shots were fired were branded as cowards._ Running was probably in their own best interest – they avoid the chance of being shot. Cowardice is succumbing to fear and failing thereby to do what is right or expected. Reasonable people can certainly disagree about Snowden’s case, of course. But your defense is misplaced: certainly Snowden is acting is his own best interest, but that does not absolve him of the charge of cowardice. ---
**Author:** ![Trion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ccd318/32.png) [@Trion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trion)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2014, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-kerry/689608/23 "2014-05-30T13:30:40Z")
> [@slowlearner](#): > > John Kerry is a disgrace to the young man he was. Huh. I managed to disgrace myself a lot more when I was a young man. But I did manage to disgrace myself in the shower this morning. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2014, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-kerry/689608/24 "2014-05-30T13:34:19Z")
Abusing yourself is not necessarily disgracing yourself. Sometimes that monkey deserves a good spanking. ---
**Author:** ![Trion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ccd318/32.png) [@Trion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trion)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2014, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-kerry/689608/25 "2014-05-30T13:37:44Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Abusing yourself is not necessarily disgracing yourself. It is the way I do it. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2014, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-kerry/689608/26 "2014-05-30T14:17:54Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Way back in the day, by a series of odd circumstances, it came to pass that the Viet Nam Veterans Against the War was meeting in my living room. Nitpick: it’s “Vietnam”. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2014, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-kerry/689608/27 "2014-05-30T14:19:33Z")
> [@slowlearner](#): > > John Kerry is a disgrace to the young man he was. The story of John Kerry’s career: From [swift boat](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fast_Patrol_Craft) to [swiftboat_ee_](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiftboating) to [swiftboat_er_](http://www.politico.com/story/2014/05/edward-snowden-coward-john-kerry-msnbc-interview-nsa-107157.html). ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2014, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-kerry/689608/28 "2014-05-30T14:28:56Z")
Nitpick: according to the [Official Names of the United Nations Membership](http://www.un.int/protocol/documents/Officialnamesofcountries.pdf) it’s the _ **Socialist Republic of Viet Nam** _ ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2014, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-kerry/689608/29 "2014-05-30T14:49:31Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Reasonable people can certainly disagree about Snowden’s case, of course. But your defense is misplaced: certainly Snowden is acting is his own best interest, but that does not absolve him of the charge of cowardice. His willingness to give up his life and family ties (even temporarily) to combat what he perceives as illegal government activity certainly does - even if you disagree with his methods, as I do. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2014, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-kerry/689608/30 "2014-05-30T15:01:14Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > His willingness to give up his life and family ties (even temporarily) to combat what he perceives as illegal government activity certainly does - even if you disagree with his methods, as I do. More to the point, the fact that he didn’t even attempt the obvious alternative of leaking the stuff anonymously refutes any charge of cowardice. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2014, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-kerry/689608/31 "2014-05-30T15:13:39Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > He also seems to be a bit stupid, insulting Snowden to try to get him to listen. Unless that’s the point. He’s not trying to get him to listen. Since the beginning the administration has tried to belittle the guy to make themselves look tougher. It’s stupid and it’s really not working. ---
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2014, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-kerry/689608/32 "2014-05-30T16:28:04Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Um… yes, actually, often it does. Merriam Webster provides this sentence in defining the word: > > _The soldiers who ran as soon as the first shots were fired were branded as cowards._ > > Running was probably in their own best interest – they avoid the chance of being shot. Cowardice is succumbing to fear and failing thereby to do what is right or expected. > > Reasonable people can certainly disagree about Snowden’s case, of course. But your defense is misplaced: certainly Snowden is acting is his own best interest, but that does not absolve him of the charge of cowardice. Come back to Mother Russia ! You Who Fled, and We Who Stayed both made mistakes. But the Revolution is bigger than all of us petty folk, and the Revolution Forgives. A formality of a trial, and then proper places will be provided for you in the land you love, forwarding our ineluctable Destiny ! ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2014, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-kerry/689608/33 "2014-05-30T16:45:45Z")
> [@slowlearner](#): > > John Kerry is a disgrace to the young man he was. _looks at rest of thread_ Apparently, you _can_ polish a turd. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2014, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-kerry/689608/34 "2014-05-30T17:05:49Z")
TL;DR ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2014, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-kerry/689608/35 "2014-05-30T17:28:43Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > _looks at rest of thread_ > > Apparently, you _can_ polish a turd. I hope this doesn’t refer to **Trion’s** habits. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Gerald\_II](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Gerald\_II](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gerald_II)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2014, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-kerry/689608/36 "2014-05-30T17:49:56Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I’m sure that’s it. Kerry called Snowdon a traitor. Now, I’m no Snowdon fan, but he did not commit treason. Kerry sounds exactly like Cheney these days. Didn’t Snowden reveal the United States foreign spying programs? Is not considered treasonous or betraying the country? If we have an American citizen working as a spy in foreign country, gathering intelligence secretly, and he or she suddenly decides to reveal we’re doing in that regard, wouldn’t they be considered a traitor? ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2014, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-kerry/689608/37 "2014-05-30T18:22:51Z")
> [@Gerald\_II](#): > > Didn’t Snowden reveal the United States foreign spying programs? Is not considered treasonous or betraying the country? > > If we have an American citizen working as a spy in foreign country, gathering intelligence secretly, and he or she suddenly decides to reveal we’re doing in that regard, wouldn’t they be considered a traitor? The problem with this distinction is that the government has intertwined foreign and domestic programs, making arrangements with other countries (e.g. “Five Eyes”) so that (for example) the US snoops can spy on British citizens and vice versa and trade information, thus evading domestic restrictions (such as they are). ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2014, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-kerry/689608/38 "2014-05-30T18:24:19Z")
If you have a little time here, [read this reporter sticking it to a White House spokeswoman over Kerry’s comments.](http://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/dpb/2014/05/226885.htm) ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2014, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-kerry/689608/39 "2014-05-30T18:27:16Z")
Yes, but it’s better than being a disgrace to the old man you’ll become. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2014, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-kerry/689608/40 "2014-05-30T19:33:03Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Maybe he was caught using A1 steak sauce. Well, there you are, Cheney wouldn’t do **that!** He likes his meat plain, raw, and live! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-kerry/689608.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-kerry/689608.md?page=3)