# John Mace Says: "Americans are too stupid to educate themselves..." **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 15, 2010, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mace-says-americans-are-too-stupid-to-educate-themselves/560703 "2010-11-15T04:02:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Le\_Jacquelope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Le\_Jacquelope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Jacquelope)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2010, 8:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mace-says-americans-are-too-stupid-to-educate-themselves/560703/21 "2010-11-15T08:46:10Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > I don’t. **John** ’s one of the more even-handed people here. But Le Jack is the kind of lefty that makes lefties look bad. To whom? You? Or the gutless lefties who got their asses handed to them on a plate by the Republicans in November because they couldn’t muster a pair to stand up to the globalist, Social Darwinist bullies? I don’t care much for criticism from those whose ideas of argument and confrontation (or total lack thereof) got them so thoroughly steamrolled. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2010, 8:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mace-says-americans-are-too-stupid-to-educate-themselves/560703/22 "2010-11-15T08:57:11Z")
> [@Le\_Jacquelope](#): > > Unlikely - but if he was, he is totally clueless about all the whining that companies do about there being a lack of tech talent. But that’s not what your OP was about. If you feel his opinions on the need for educational programs are wrong you could have discussed that in the original thread. There was no need to remove something he wrote from its original context and make what appears to be a dubious claim about it in a new thread. ---
**Author:** ![Le\_Jacquelope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Le\_Jacquelope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Jacquelope)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2010, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mace-says-americans-are-too-stupid-to-educate-themselves/560703/23 "2010-11-15T11:48:44Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > But that’s not what your OP was about. If you feel his opinions on the need for educational programs are wrong you could have discussed that in the original thread. There was no need to remove something he wrote from its original context and make what appears to be a dubious claim about it in a new thread. WTF? He said Americans are too stupid to educate themselves about the job market. You guys are now spin-doctoring it with the excuse that he was being ironic. I presented information that very strongly suggests he couldn’t have been trying to be ironic unless he is a total ignoramus instead. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2010, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mace-says-americans-are-too-stupid-to-educate-themselves/560703/24 "2010-11-15T12:40:17Z")
> [@Le\_Jacquelope](#): > > WTF? He said Americans are too stupid to educate themselves about the job market. You guys are now spin-doctoring it with the excuse that he was being ironic. I presented information that very strongly suggests he couldn’t have been trying to be ironic unless he is a total ignoramus instead. And that information is being rejected in part because, as it turns out, nobody likes you. You’re kind of a jerk. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2010, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mace-says-americans-are-too-stupid-to-educate-themselves/560703/25 "2010-11-15T13:01:23Z")
Wow, the **Le Jacquelope** jumped the shark but fast. ---
**Author:** ![Paranoid\_Randroid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/paranoid_randroid/32/18_2.png) [@Paranoid\_Randroid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paranoid_Randroid)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2010, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mace-says-americans-are-too-stupid-to-educate-themselves/560703/26 "2010-11-15T13:21:07Z")
> [@Le\_Jacquelope](#): > > WTF? He said Americans are too stupid to educate themselves about the job market. You guys are now spin-doctoring it with the excuse that he was being ironic. I presented information that very strongly suggests he couldn’t have been trying to be ironic unless he is a total ignoramus instead. Well, then you’ll have to stick with the argument that he is a total ignoramus, because he was quite clearly not stating that Americans are stupid. There is simply no good way to make sense of his argument otherwise, particularly where he immediately says “And when they actually are too stupid”. (Of course, he wasn’t being an ignoramus, but that is neither here nor there. You have mischaracterized him in a prima facie unreasonable way, one which calls into question your own ability to comprehend the arguments made against you.) ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2010, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mace-says-americans-are-too-stupid-to-educate-themselves/560703/27 "2010-11-15T14:04:30Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > If you feel his opinions on the need for educational programs are wrong you could have discussed that in the original thread. Course it wasn’t a lack of need for educational programs he was moaning about. It was the idea that Government might have any role whatsoever in forging a path to our technological future. If **John** ’d just thought the programs weren’t needed he could have said that, instead of going hypergolic on the ‘Americans are stupid’ theme. **John** made his anti-government ideology quite clear, even if all he wanted to do was prevent a reasonable discussion of government’s role in the tech job marketplace. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2010, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mace-says-americans-are-too-stupid-to-educate-themselves/560703/28 "2010-11-15T14:32:00Z")
**John** doesn’t have an ideology. ---
**Author:** ![Le\_Jacquelope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Le\_Jacquelope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Jacquelope)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2010, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mace-says-americans-are-too-stupid-to-educate-themselves/560703/29 "2010-11-15T14:34:45Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > And that information is being rejected in part because, as it turns out, nobody likes you. You’re kind of a jerk. Oh well. And while you’re at it you might explain to me why I should care if you or anyone else likes me or not. You don’t matter enough for me to care. John Mace couldn’t possibly be saying people are smart enough to get into IT when every source in the universe is saying Americans are STAMPEDING away from IT. Unless you just assume he’s an idiot who doesn’t know what he’s talking about, in which case you’re just beating him up to support this wild-eyed claim that I’m misinterpreting him. Which I’m not. But it doesn’t matter because some kids on a message board don’t like me. Oh noes. I’m hurt. Help me, I’m hurting! ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2010, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mace-says-americans-are-too-stupid-to-educate-themselves/560703/30 "2010-11-15T15:08:30Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > Or, perhaps, too stupid to find the link that is already there? 🙂 > > Hint: click the little blue box with the arrow in the quoted section. See, I told you we were stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2010, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mace-says-americans-are-too-stupid-to-educate-themselves/560703/31 "2010-11-15T16:15:33Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > **John** doesn’t have an ideology. But he does have a Mace. Is it wrong that I too want to be swooshed now? ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2010, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mace-says-americans-are-too-stupid-to-educate-themselves/560703/32 "2010-11-15T16:20:49Z")
Clue for the dimwitted, tolling OP: \*\*John Mace \*\*is a lefty. He and **Silenus** are two of the more reasonable lefties around here, but lefty they are. Kinda sad. I’m trying to lure them back to the side of the Jedi. ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2010, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mace-says-americans-are-too-stupid-to-educate-themselves/560703/33 "2010-11-15T16:21:10Z")
Oh look, Trolly McTrollsterson started another thread he can keep bumped himself to give himself more attention. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2010, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mace-says-americans-are-too-stupid-to-educate-themselves/560703/34 "2010-11-15T16:43:52Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Clue for the dimwitted, tolling OP: \*\*John Mace \*\*is a lefty. Anyone to the sinister side of Rush, ehh **Oaky**? Keep up the redefining. If you lie long enough and hard enough, people’ll believe you, and it’ll become the new reality. Or so _some_ say. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2010, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mace-says-americans-are-too-stupid-to-educate-themselves/560703/35 "2010-11-15T16:45:36Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > **John** doesn’t have an ideology. Sure he does. We all have ideology. An ideology is simply a set of ideas or beliefs or philosophies that make up a worldview. Some ideologies are more clearly defined than others, and some even have names, but we all partake in ideology. It’s one of the enduring myths of American society that only those crazy commies or Nazis or other extreme groups have ideologies. A belief in democracy and freedom and limited government intervention in the economy is no less an ideology than a belief in Marxism or Fascism. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2010, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mace-says-americans-are-too-stupid-to-educate-themselves/560703/36 "2010-11-15T17:16:40Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > It’s one of the enduring myths of American society that only those crazy commies or Nazis or other extreme groups have ideologies. A belief in democracy and freedom and limited government intervention in the economy is no less an ideology than a belief in Marxism or Fascism. Ideologies are like accents. Only foreigners have them. ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2010, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mace-says-americans-are-too-stupid-to-educate-themselves/560703/37 "2010-11-15T17:22:17Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > It seems as if the OP is annoyed by some of **John’s** political convictions. I am surprised to hear that he has any. They’re more like guidelines… Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2010, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mace-says-americans-are-too-stupid-to-educate-themselves/560703/38 "2010-11-15T17:27:18Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Wasn’t John being ironic in that post? He was responded to someone who said we need government programs to direct people towards technical degrees. John apparently felt these programs aren’t needed because people with technical degrees earn good money so people are already pursuing them. I really didn’t think there would be any question about that. I am on record, though, as saying that “people are stupid”. Americans don’t have any monopoly on that! 🙂 > [@Really Not All That Bright](#): > > ``` > John doesn't have an ideology. > > ``` Only if being a mindless partisan is the only way you show yourself to have an ideology around here. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2010, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mace-says-americans-are-too-stupid-to-educate-themselves/560703/39 "2010-11-15T17:32:23Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > \*\*John Mace \*\*is a lefty. That’s funny. I’m used to being called a righty around here, but this may be the first time I’ve been called a lefty. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2010, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mace-says-americans-are-too-stupid-to-educate-themselves/560703/40 "2010-11-15T17:35:46Z")
If Obama is a trot you can be a mere lefty John 😉 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mace-says-americans-are-too-stupid-to-educate-themselves/560703.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mace-says-americans-are-too-stupid-to-educate-themselves/560703.md?page=3)