# John Mace Says: "Americans are too stupid to educate themselves..." **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 15, 2010, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mace-says-americans-are-too-stupid-to-educate-themselves/560703 "2010-11-15T04:02:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2010, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mace-says-americans-are-too-stupid-to-educate-themselves/560703/41 "2010-11-15T17:44:08Z")
I’m pretty sure \*\*John Mace \*\*was being ironic. I believe he was saying: “[Americans are perfectly able to] educate themselves in areas with great employment potential and high wages. And when they actually are too stupid, we have thousands of foreigners dying to immigrate here and fill those slots that Americans are too stupid to fill.” IOW, in response to the OPs suggestion that we will run out of entry level computer geeks, Mace is saying that if there is a demand for those skills, Americans will either train to do them or we can import those skills if needed. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2010, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mace-says-americans-are-too-stupid-to-educate-themselves/560703/42 "2010-11-15T17:54:07Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > That’s funny. I’m used to being called a righty around here, but this may be the first time I’ve been called a lefty. I prefer to think of you as having no hands at all. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2010, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mace-says-americans-are-too-stupid-to-educate-themselves/560703/43 "2010-11-15T17:58:28Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I prefer to think of you as having no hands at all. That allow me to blame any spelling errors I make on the fact that I have to type with my nose. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2010, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mace-says-americans-are-too-stupid-to-educate-themselves/560703/44 "2010-11-15T18:03:01Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > Anyone to the sinister side of Rush, ehh **Oaky**? > Keep up the redefining. If you lie long enough and hard enough, people’ll believe you, and it’ll become the new reality. Or so _some_ say. Kiss my ass you sanctimonious pissant. Cite me to where I have sung the praises of Limbaugh around here, or just shut the fuck up. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2010, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mace-says-americans-are-too-stupid-to-educate-themselves/560703/45 "2010-11-15T19:22:48Z")
Touched a nerve, did I? Not surprising given your screwed up views of where the center is. It must be a very twitchy world you inhabit. **John** may not be the paradigm of what I consider an honest debater, but at least he has some idea of where he stands on the political spectrum, and is truthful about it. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2010, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mace-says-americans-are-too-stupid-to-educate-themselves/560703/46 "2010-11-15T19:27:32Z")
Again, I want to see a cite where I have praised Limbaugh. Otherwise, you’re a lying sack of shit, and a walking argument for retroactive abortion. ---
**Author:** ![Le\_Jacquelope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Le\_Jacquelope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Jacquelope)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2010, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mace-says-americans-are-too-stupid-to-educate-themselves/560703/47 "2010-11-15T19:29:30Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > I’m pretty sure \*\*John Mace \*\*was being ironic. I believe he was saying: > > “[Americans are perfectly able to] educate themselves in areas with great employment potential and high wages. And when they actually are too stupid, we have thousands of foreigners dying to immigrate here and fill those slots that Americans are too stupid to fill.” But here’s the problem. I kinda figured the Straight Dope guys would see this far but apparently The Unpopular One[tm] has gotta spell this one out even more basically. Since it is fairly clear to those with a clue that Americans are in fact STAMPEDING AWAY from IT and have been doing so for the last 7 or so years, to the point that we’ve seen a 45% drop in CS degrees (for instance) between 2003 and 2007… essentially, according to John Mace, Americans ARE in fact stupid, because while Americans are stampeding away from this field, the Department of Labor projects that this is the 4th fastest growing job field. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2010, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mace-says-americans-are-too-stupid-to-educate-themselves/560703/48 "2010-11-15T19:55:52Z")
> [@](#): > > Enrollment in computer science programs has been rising since 2005, when parents and students stopped worrying that corporate outsourcing of IT functions would result in less demand for computer scientists in the United States. But it hasn’t reached dot-com era levels. [Link](http://www.networkworld.com/news/2010/022210-computer-science.html?page=3) ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2010, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mace-says-americans-are-too-stupid-to-educate-themselves/560703/49 "2010-11-15T20:05:00Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Clue for the dimwitted, tolling OP: \*\*John Mace \*\*is a lefty. He and **Silenus** are two of the more reasonable lefties around here, but lefty they are. Kinda sad. I’m trying to lure them back to the side of the Jedi. Righty. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2010, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mace-says-americans-are-too-stupid-to-educate-themselves/560703/50 "2010-11-15T20:07:33Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > That’s funny. I’m used to being called a righty around here, but this may be the first time I’ve been called a lefty. And that’s why I consider you one of the few actual independents around, as opposed to the people who claim they’re independent yet cleave unwaveringly to one doctrine or another. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2010, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mace-says-americans-are-too-stupid-to-educate-themselves/560703/51 "2010-11-15T20:35:35Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > \*\*John Mace \*\*is a lefty. I always kinda had him pegged as some variety of a moderate libertarian ( small “l” ), myself :). ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2010, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mace-says-americans-are-too-stupid-to-educate-themselves/560703/52 "2010-11-15T20:55:45Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > I always kinda had him pegged as some variety of a moderate libertarian ( small “l” ), myself :). I’m a moderate that shades to the right. On this board, that makes me one of the more conservative posters. **John** is pretty clearly to left of me…but still reasonable. This board skews so overwhelmingly liberal, it confuses the normal political roadmap. ---
**Author:** ![Le\_Jacquelope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Le\_Jacquelope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Jacquelope)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2010, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mace-says-americans-are-too-stupid-to-educate-themselves/560703/53 "2010-11-15T21:26:47Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > [Link](http://www.networkworld.com/news/2010/022210-computer-science.html?page=3) Oh let’s see now, DARPA says enrollment has been dropping all the way up to 2007 and these guys are saying it’s been up since 2005. Well, a handful of universities are saying CS enrollment is up, but [these guys](http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=88154024) say it’s still down. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2010, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mace-says-americans-are-too-stupid-to-educate-themselves/560703/54 "2010-11-15T21:30:30Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > I’m a moderate that shades to the right. On this board, that makes me one of the more conservative posters. **John** is pretty clearly to left of me…but still reasonable. This board skews so overwhelmingly liberal, it confuses the normal political roadmap. Depends what your roadmap is. If it says “Roadmap of United States Politics,” you have a point. But if it says, for example, “Roadmap of Western Democratic Politics,” the politics of this board aren’t far out of line with the mainstream. I recognize that this board is based in the United States, and that US posters constitute the majority of members, but there are plenty of people here from elsewhere as well, and i don’t recall there being a rule that every facet of this board need be evaluated by how closely it conforms to middle America. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2010, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mace-says-americans-are-too-stupid-to-educate-themselves/560703/55 "2010-11-15T22:00:04Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Again, I want to see a cite… You don’t like being wrong about **John** ’s poltical bent, do you? Did I mention that you were wrong when you claimed **John** was a lefty? That was an error on your part. Your attempts at obfuscation do not cover up the plain fact of your wrongness from anyone who bothers to read this thread. That’s too bad for you, isn’t it now? Poor, poor **Oakminster** , wrong, and unable to cover it up. It’s a goin to school in your underwear kind of feeling for you, isn’t it, **Oakie**? ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2010, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mace-says-americans-are-too-stupid-to-educate-themselves/560703/56 "2010-11-15T22:04:16Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > You don’t like being wrong about **John** ’s poltical bent, do you? > Did I mention that you were wrong when you claimed **John** was a lefty? > That was an error on your part. > Your attempts at obfuscation do not cover up the plain fact of your wrongness from anyone who bothers to read this thread. > That’s too bad for you, isn’t it now? > Poor, poor **Oakminster** , wrong, and unable to cover it up. > It’s a goin to school in your underwear kind of feeling for you, isn’t it, **Oakie**? No, asshole…you accused me of lying and of favoring Rush Limbaugh. Neither of those things are true. Cite or STFU. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2010, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mace-says-americans-are-too-stupid-to-educate-themselves/560703/57 "2010-11-15T22:20:58Z")
> [@Le\_Jacquelope](#): > > Oh let’s see now, DARPA says enrollment has been dropping all the way up to 2007 and these guys are saying it’s been up since 2005. Well, a handful of universities are saying CS enrollment is up, but [these guys](http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=88154024) say it’s still down. You’re cite is 2 years older than mine, which is from Feb this year. Your cite mentions total enrollment, while mine talks about new enrollment. Here’s a [NYT article from 2009](http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/17/science/17comp.html) that says enrollment is up. Here’s [another, from Scientific American,](http://www.scientificamerican.com/blog/post.cfm?id=computer-science-engineering-enroll-2009-03-18) published about the same time saying the same thing. Look, people got spooked after the dot com boom, and were reticent to major in CS. Rightly so. Things changed, and now CS is booming again. Not like it was in the 90s (which is probably a good thing), but there is no doubt that people are flocking back to CS and not running away. Oh, and you’re an idiot, just for the record. ---
**Author:** ![Le\_Jacquelope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Le\_Jacquelope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Jacquelope)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2010, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mace-says-americans-are-too-stupid-to-educate-themselves/560703/58 "2010-11-15T22:36:44Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > You’re cite is 2 years older than mine, which is from Feb this year. Your cite mentions total enrollment, while mine talks about new enrollment. > > Here’s a [NYT article from 2009](http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/17/science/17comp.html) that says enrollment is up. Here’s [another, from Scientific American,](http://www.scientificamerican.com/blog/post.cfm?id=computer-science-engineering-enroll-2009-03-18) published about the same time saying the same thing. > > Look, people got spooked after the dot com boom, and were reticent to major in CS. Rightly so. Things changed, and now CS is booming again. Not like it was in the 90s (which is probably a good thing), but there is no doubt that people are flocking back to CS and not running away. > > Oh, and you’re an idiot, just for the record. Your cites say that since 2007 enrollment was up a “whopping” 6-8%. That’s not coming anywhere close to making up for the previous **45% drop** you fucking retard. That’s not people flocking back to CS. Not even close. That’s not even on the level of a sucker’s rally. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2010, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mace-says-americans-are-too-stupid-to-educate-themselves/560703/59 "2010-11-15T22:47:48Z")
> [@Le\_Jacquelope](#): > > Your cites say that since 2007 enrollment was up a “whopping” 6-8%. That’s not coming anywhere close to making up for the previous **45% drop** you fucking retard. > > That’s not people flocking back to CS. Not even close. That’s not even on the level of a sucker’s rally. You’re so stupid, you can’t ever read. The cite says up 8% for 1 year, not up 8% since 2007. Now, let’s see what you claimed: “Americans are in fact STAMPEDING AWAY from IT and have been doing so for the last 7 or so years”. “every source in the universe is saying Americans are STAMPEDING away from IT”. Every source in the universe, huh? Stampeding away, huh? You’re an idiot. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2010, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mace-says-americans-are-too-stupid-to-educate-themselves/560703/60 "2010-11-15T22:56:56Z")
Watch out, **John** , or he’ll put you on his Ignore list. That’ll learn ya. Regards, Shodan [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mace-says-americans-are-too-stupid-to-educate-themselves/560703.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mace-says-americans-are-too-stupid-to-educate-themselves/560703.md?page=4)