# John McCain and Barack Obama NOT Qualified to Be President? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 29, 2008, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-and-barack-obama-not-qualified-to-be-president/470044 "2008-10-29T03:24:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Jim\_B](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jim_b/32/4338_2.png) [@Jim\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_B)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2008, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-and-barack-obama-not-qualified-to-be-president/470044/1 "2008-10-29T03:24:19Z")
Just to first clarify what the U.S. Constitution has to say on the matter: > [@](#): > > No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President. [U.S. Constitution, Art. 2, Sect. 1](http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html#A2Sec1) Okay, now why they are both not allegedly qualified to be president. McCain was allegedly born in Panama, Barack Obama in Kenya. [Here](http://message.snopes.com/showthread.php?t=29227) is another message board that brings up this very topic. Plus if I find anything more about it on the internet, I won’t hesitate to provide a link. Yeah, it might sound silly to some. But I am _still_ sorry Hillary Clinton didn’t get the nomination. With this information, maybe it isn’t too late. Thank you in advance to all who reply:) ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2008, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-and-barack-obama-not-qualified-to-be-president/470044/2 "2008-10-29T03:26:08Z")
It’s too late. Obama was born in Hawaii, so he’s an American citizen, period. This is not disputed by anyone sane, and his Web site even has a copy of his birth certificate to counter this rumor. McCain was born in the Panana Canal Zone to American citizens and is thus a citizen himself. ---
**Author:** ![papaw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b77776/32.png) [@papaw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/papaw)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2008, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-and-barack-obama-not-qualified-to-be-president/470044/3 "2008-10-29T03:27:33Z")
This has been beaten to death here and elsewhere, and shouldn’t be an issue at all. Both have been fully vetted. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2008, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-and-barack-obama-not-qualified-to-be-president/470044/4 "2008-10-29T03:30:16Z")
While it’s a moot point for Obama or McCain, if someone was born to U.S. citizens on foreign soil would they be eligible for the presidency? I was born in Istanbul Turkey to American citizens in the Foreign Service. Am I allowed to be president? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2008, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-and-barack-obama-not-qualified-to-be-president/470044/5 "2008-10-29T03:34:57Z")
Seriously **Jim B.** – Do you _really_ think this has not been scrutinized to microscopic levels by no one before this? That the US would allow the nomination of candidates who were Constitutionally ineligible to hold the Oval Office? Do you really think neither McCain or Obama wouldn’t be all over their opponent if there was so much as a question about their eligibility to be President? I promise you, legally both candidates are well within the law to hold the office of POTUS. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2008, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-and-barack-obama-not-qualified-to-be-president/470044/6 "2008-10-29T03:37:42Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > While it’s a moot point for Obama or McCain, if someone was born to U.S. citizens on foreign soil would they be eligible for the presidency? McCain was born to US citizens on foreign soil (the Canal Zone was never US soil). If you didn’t need to be naturalized you are a natural born citizen. If your parents were US citizens and had lived in the US (I forget exactly how long to qualify) then you are a natural born US citizen and could run for President. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2008, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-and-barack-obama-not-qualified-to-be-president/470044/7 "2008-10-29T03:38:02Z")
GQ threads addressing this for both candidates: [IS Obama a natural born US citizen?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=488025) [Does John McCain meet the requirements to be President??](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=453820) ---
**Author:** ![papaw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b77776/32.png) [@papaw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/papaw)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2008, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-and-barack-obama-not-qualified-to-be-president/470044/8 "2008-10-29T03:38:12Z")
> [@](#): > > I was born in Istanbul Turkey to American citizens in the Foreign Service. Am I allowed to be president? I would think so. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2008, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-and-barack-obama-not-qualified-to-be-president/470044/9 "2008-10-29T03:40:57Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > While it’s a moot point for Obama or McCain, if someone was born to U.S. citizens on foreign soil would they be eligible for the presidency? > > I was born in Istanbul Turkey to American citizens in the Foreign Service. Am I allowed to be president? The Supreme Court has not ruled on it, so no one knows for sure. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2008, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-and-barack-obama-not-qualified-to-be-president/470044/10 "2008-10-29T03:41:11Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > While it’s a moot point for Obama or McCain, if someone was born to U.S. citizens on foreign soil would they be eligible for the presidency? > > I was born in Istanbul Turkey to American citizens in the Foreign Service. Am I allowed to be president? The details have been filled in legally here so yeah…you would be eligible to run for President (assuming you met the age requirement): > [@](#): > > **US Code: Title 8 \> CHAPTER 12 \> SUBCHAPTER III \> Part I \> § 1401** > The following shall be nationals and citizens of the United States at birth: > (a) a person born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof; > > (b) a person born in the United States to a member of an Indian, Eskimo, Aleutian, or other aboriginal tribe: Provided, That the granting of citizenship under this subsection shall not in any manner impair or otherwise affect the right of such person to tribal or other property; > > (c) a person born outside of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents both of whom are citizens of the United States and one of whom has had a residence in the United States or one of its outlying possessions, prior to the birth of such person; > > (d) a person born outside of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is a citizen of the United States who has been physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for a continuous period of one year prior to the birth of such person, and the other of whom is a national, but not a citizen of the United States; > > (e) a person born in an outlying possession of the United States of parents one of whom is a citizen of the United States who has been physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for a continuous period of one year at any time prior to the birth of such person; > > (f) a person of unknown parentage found in the United States while under the age of five years, until shown, prior to his attaining the age of twenty-one years, not to have been born in the United States; > > (g) a person born outside the geographical limits of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is an alien, and the other a citizen of the United States who, prior to the birth of such person, was physically present in the United States or its outlying possessions for a period or periods totaling not less than five years, at least two of which were after attaining the age of fourteen years: Provided, That any periods of honorable service in the Armed Forces of the United States, or periods of employment with the United States Government or with an international organization as that term is defined in section 288 of title 22 by such citizen parent, or any periods during which such citizen parent is physically present abroad as the dependent unmarried son or daughter and a member of the household of a person > > (A) honorably serving with the Armed Forces of the United States, or > > (B) employed by the United States Government or an international organization as defined in section 288 of title 22, may be included in order to satisfy the physical-presence requirement of this paragraph. This proviso shall be applicable to persons born on or after December 24, 1952, to the same extent as if it had become effective in its present form on that date; and > > (h) a person born before noon (Eastern Standard Time) May 24, 1934, outside the limits and jurisdiction of the United States of an alien father and a mother who is a citizen of the United States who, prior to the birth of such person, had resided in the United States. > > SOURCE: [§ 1401. Nationals and citizens of United States at birth](http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode08/usc_sec_08_00001401----000-.html) ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2008, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-and-barack-obama-not-qualified-to-be-president/470044/11 "2008-10-29T04:15:51Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > McCain was born to US citizens on foreign soil (the Canal Zone was never US soil). To elaborate on this a little, the Canal Zone always remained legally part of the Republic of Panama, although the US by treaty was allowed to excercise sovereignty there. Simply being born in the Canal Zone did not confer US citizenship. There was, however, one difference in regulations for US citizenship for those born in the Zone: A US citizen did not have to have been previously resident/physically present in the US in order to pass on citizenship to his or her children. Native-born Zonians could transmit citizenship through several generations without having ever lived in the US. McCain is, however, regarded as native born by Panama, and would be eligible to run for president here in next year’s election if he so chooses. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2008, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-and-barack-obama-not-qualified-to-be-president/470044/12 "2008-10-29T04:32:02Z")
Thanks, **Whack-a-Mole** and others. ---
**Author:** ![Lawn\_Gnome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8491ac/32.png) [@Lawn\_Gnome](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lawn_Gnome)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2008, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-and-barack-obama-not-qualified-to-be-president/470044/13 "2008-10-29T04:42:16Z")
John McCain was born at Coco Solo Naval Air Station and U.S. military bases are U.S. soil To American parents as well as has already been pointed out. Obama was born in an actual state as had already been pointed out as well. Proof: Hawaii became a state two years (1959) before Obama was born in Honolulu (1961). Besides this, they both exceed 35 years of age and have lived in the U.S. for more than 14 years at some point of their lives. These are the only three requirements described by the Constitution. So to clarify, they are BOTH qualified to be President, unless you have a fight to pick with the ol’ Constitution. ---
**Author:** ![Markxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2008, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-and-barack-obama-not-qualified-to-be-president/470044/14 "2008-10-29T04:47:46Z")
This is totally wrong. Being a natural born citizen does NOT mean you have to be born in the USA. What natural born means is that you’re a citizen and you didn’t have to take out your papers to be that way. If a veteran in Iraq gets an Iraqi woman pregnant the child is an American the second it’s born. Why? Because one of his parents are a citizen. He’s NATURAL BORN because he’s an American Citizen from birth and didn’t have to take out any papers to become a citizen. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2008, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-and-barack-obama-not-qualified-to-be-president/470044/15 "2008-10-29T04:49:31Z")
We have been through all this [before](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=453820&highlight=natural+born). Here is a quote from Wikipedia: > [@](#): > > the Naturalization Act of 1790, that “the children of citizens of the United States that may be born beyond the sea, or out of the limits of the United States, shall be considered as natural born citizens”, which does not draw a distinction between biological children and adopted children, even though the process of adoption was certainly well known at the time. > > In fact, the phrase “natural born Citizen” is not defined anywhere in the Constitution itself and its interpretation has never been the subject of a U.S. Supreme Court ruling. Thus, some argue that even those born abroad to US citizens are not eligible to ascend to the Presidency, since an act of the United States Congress such as the Naturalization Act may not overrule the Constitution (see “Natural born citizen” as presidential qualification). Thus far, presidential candidates George W. Romney (born in Mexico), and Barry Goldwater and John McCain (born in U.S. territories), were never seriously challenged on the basis of their “natural-born” citizenship, but no candidate falling under this classification has ever actually become President, and therefore the question must be regarded as not having been finally decided. The issue isn’t whether McCain was a citizen when born, it’s whether he is a “natural born” citizen as required in The Constitution. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2008, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-and-barack-obama-not-qualified-to-be-president/470044/16 "2008-10-29T06:36:16Z")
> [@Lawn\_Gnome](#): > > John McCain was born at Coco Solo Naval Air Station and U.S. military bases are U.S. soil No, US military bases overseas are not United States soil. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2008, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-and-barack-obama-not-qualified-to-be-president/470044/17 "2008-10-29T06:53:23Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > McCain is, however, regarded as native born by Panama, and would be eligible to run for president here in next year’s election if he so chooses. This is an excellent backup plan. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2008, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-and-barack-obama-not-qualified-to-be-president/470044/18 "2008-10-29T07:13:01Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > No, US military bases overseas are not United States soil. IIRC only Embassies are US territory overseas. As noted here military bases are not hence Guantanamo Bay used to torture prisoners. It is not technically US territory and thus beyond jurisdiction of US courts…not an accident people ended up in Dubya’s private house of horrors there as opposed to being shipped into the US. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2008, 7:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-and-barack-obama-not-qualified-to-be-president/470044/19 "2008-10-29T07:17:36Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > We have been through all this [before](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=453820&highlight=natural+born). Here is a quote from Wikipedia: > > The issue isn’t whether McCain was a citizen when born, it’s whether he is a “natural born” citizen as required in The Constitution. Well, the SCOTUS has not spoken on this but since it seems totally open to interpretation I’d say all is well and McCain can run. Federal law says so and since the Constitution is mum on that point why not? Someone has to determine eligibility; may as well be them. Willing to bet in this case the SCOTUS would agree and defer to the existing law. ---
**Author:** ![Cliffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2008, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-and-barack-obama-not-qualified-to-be-president/470044/20 "2008-10-29T14:59:39Z")
As I have detailed elsewhere, I don’t believe McCain is eligible for the presidency, although it’s an open question. Obama certainly is. –Cliffy [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-and-barack-obama-not-qualified-to-be-president/470044.md?page=2)