# John McCain and Peter King Can Go To Hell **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 4, 2010, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-and-peter-king-can-go-to-hell/538308 "2010-05-04T18:09:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![MeDrewNotYou](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@MeDrewNotYou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeDrewNotYou)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-and-peter-king-can-go-to-hell/538308/1 "2010-05-04T18:09:21Z")
[Fuck you John McCain, Joe Lieberman, and Peter King.](http://www.balloon-juice.com/2010/05/04/not-all-americans-are-equal/) It was bullshit enough that people we capture in Iraq and Afghanistan don’t deserve rights, but _an American fucking citizen?!?!_ There’s plenty of GOP bullshit to be pissed about, but this, to me, takes the cake. Beyond the denial of a citizen’s rights and the total disrespect for due process, it doesn’t take a genius to figure out that without informing someone of their rights, you have a pretty good chance of getting half your evidence thrown out. So not only do they advocate a downright evil course of action, its the stupidest thing you could do if you actually want to hold the guy accountable\*. \*- Unless, you know, we just ship the dude off to an island somewhere. But I’m sure we wouldn’t do something like that. ETA: I did read [the Politico story](http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0510/36741.html#ixzz0myJGE3UQ), but John Cole has a way with words. Besides, Balloon Juice is great blog. Also, I figure its assumed that Lieberman can go to hell, so he doesn’t deserve title billing. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-and-peter-king-can-go-to-hell/538308/2 "2010-05-04T18:15:04Z")
Well, at least McCain is consistently batshit. From his “Enemy Belligerent Interrogation, Detention, and Prosecution Act of 2010”: > [@](#): > > SEC. 5. DETENTION WITHOUT TRIAL OF UNPRIVILEGED ENEMY BELLIGERENTS. > > An individual, **including a citizen of the United States** , determined to be an unprivileged enemy belligerent under section 3(c)(2) in a manner which satisfies Article 5 of the Geneva Convention Relative to the Treatment of Prisoners of War may be detained without criminal charges and without trial for the duration of hostilities against the United States or its coalition partners in which the individual has engaged, or which the individual has purposely and materially supported, consistent with the law of war and any authorization for the use of military force provided by Congress pertaining to such hostilities. Bolding mine. Scary, wot? ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-and-peter-king-can-go-to-hell/538308/3 "2010-05-04T18:18:17Z")
Why is this guy still alive? Shouldn’t he have been executed at the airport? He might have had a bomb in his shoe or his ass, or a shoe bomb in his ass, or even an ass bomb in his shoe! We just can’t take chances with these people. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-and-peter-king-can-go-to-hell/538308/4 "2010-05-04T18:47:31Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Why is this guy still alive? Shouldn’t he have been executed at the airport? He might have had a bomb in his shoe or his ass, or a shoe bomb in his ass, or even an ass bomb in his shoe! We just can’t take chances with these people. I agree. Everybody who deplanes from a Mideast country should be shot on sight. Then the problem, perhaps all problems, will be solved. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-and-peter-king-can-go-to-hell/538308/5 "2010-05-04T18:50:17Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > I agree. Everybody who deplanes from a Mideast country should be shot on sight. Then the problem, perhaps all problems, will be solved. heck-why don’t we just go over there, land at their airport and shoot anyone who tries to get on a USA-bound plane? Over time, our problem will dissipate. Genius! ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-and-peter-king-can-go-to-hell/538308/6 "2010-05-04T18:58:06Z")
> [@](#): > > I know he’s an American citizen but still,” King told POLITICO -Rep. Peter King (N.Y.), the top Republican on the House Homeland Security Committee “but still”…? He really does not understand this “constitutional rights” thing very well does he? Or maybe he does not understand the concept of “citizenship”? ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-and-peter-king-can-go-to-hell/538308/7 "2010-05-04T19:00:58Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > heck-why don’t we just go over there, land at their airport and shoot anyone who tries to get on a USA-bound plane? Over time, our problem will dissipate. Genius! I hope that by ‘there’ you mean everywhere. Otherwise, they could slip through, flying to someplace else, and then flying here. And even if they’re not trying to fly here NOW, they’re still a potential recruit for later. Yes it’s time for a house cleaning. And by ‘house’ I mean planet. ---
**Author:** ![Gustav](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/919ad9/32.png) [@Gustav](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gustav)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-and-peter-king-can-go-to-hell/538308/8 "2010-05-04T19:19:20Z")
I don’t mean to troll, I don’t have any stake in this, but I have to ask why _should_ American citizens be excempt? It seems to me, as long as they’re going to do this kind of thing, the least they can do is apply it evenhandedly to everyone, own citizens included. I would have expected nothing less. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-and-peter-king-can-go-to-hell/538308/9 "2010-05-04T19:28:04Z")
> [@MeDrewNotYou](#): > > [Fuck you John McCain, Joe Lieberman, and Peter King.](http://www.balloon-juice.com/2010/05/04/not-all-americans-are-equal/) It was bullshit enough that people we capture in Iraq and Afghanistan don’t deserve rights, but _an American fucking citizen?!?!_ There’s plenty of GOP bullshit to be pissed about, but this, to me, takes the cake. We have to read miranda rights to potential terrorists? Really? All that does is insure the use of incriminating verbal evidence. It helps the prosecution, not criminals. Asking a terrorist if he knows of any other people involved makes perfect sense if you’re trying to stop additional attacks. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-and-peter-king-can-go-to-hell/538308/10 "2010-05-04T19:34:53Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > We have to read miranda rights to\*\* potential \*\*terrorists? Really? Bolding mine. You apparently recognize that people accused of terrorist acts might not actually be guilty, but you are willing to suspend civil rights to American citizens based on an accusation? I’ve got a suggestion: Let’s get rid of all the gutless Americans who aren’t willing to put some skin in this game we call participatory democracy. If you are too shit-pants scared to trust the rights this country is supposed to be founded upon and to still be a shining beacon on a hill for - even when it is kind of hard to support those rights - I would rather you just tipped the fuck out the door right now. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-and-peter-king-can-go-to-hell/538308/11 "2010-05-04T19:38:38Z")
You know what’s scary … very, _very_ scary? [Glenn Beck agrees with the OP](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/05/04/faisal-shahzad-arrest-bec_n_562467.html):eek: ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-and-peter-king-can-go-to-hell/538308/12 "2010-05-04T19:39:14Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Bolding mine. You apparently recognize that people accused of terrorist acts might not actually be guilty, but you are willing to suspend civil rights to American citizens based on an accusation? > > I’ve got a suggestion: Let’s get rid of all the gutless Americans who aren’t willing to put some skin in this game we call participatory democracy. If you are too shit-pants scared to trust the rights this country is supposed to be founded upon and to still be a shining beacon on a hill for - even when it is kind of hard to support those rights - I would rather you just tipped the fuck out the door right now. You still don’t get it. The miranda reading only helps the prosecution. It’s to a criminal’s advantage if it isn’t read to them. ---
**Author:** ![MeDrewNotYou](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@MeDrewNotYou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeDrewNotYou)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-and-peter-king-can-go-to-hell/538308/13 "2010-05-04T19:40:59Z")
> [@Gustav](#): > > I don’t mean to troll, I don’t have any stake in this, but I have to ask why _should_ American citizens be excempt? It seems to me, as long as they’re going to do this kind of thing, the least they can do is apply it evenhandedly to everyone, own citizens included. I would have expected nothing less. I’m of the opinion that “enemy combatants” or foreigners accused of terrorism should get the same due process rights as US citizens accused of terror, both because its fair and acceptable from a human rights stand point, but also because treating them as common criminals is the best way to deal with terrorists. De-legitimize their cause, don’t provide propaganda fodder, etc. So on treating them equally, I agree. But if you aren’t going to do that, giving the foreign suspect fewer rights has a plausible argument behind it. They aren’t normally within our jurisdiction and aren’t automatically afforded a citizen’s rights. I think this is a bad idea, but at least makes some sort of sense. The problem here is that these politicians are saying that, because of the crime, a citizen doesn’t deserve the protections he’d receive if he were accused of robbery or murder or whatever. The question, then, is, “What makes terrorism so special?” Of course, the fact that the accused originally came from Pakistan, and is therefore Muslim probably plays a big role. When the suspect was originally thought to be a regular ole’ white guy, statements were relatively calm. Anti-Muslim bigotry is painfully obvious. ---
**Author:** ![Raygun99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Raygun99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raygun99)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-and-peter-king-can-go-to-hell/538308/14 "2010-05-04T19:44:13Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > You still don’t get it. The miranda reading only helps the prosecution. It’s to a criminal’s advantage if it isn’t read to them. So we’re agreed then. Read him his Miranda rights. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-and-peter-king-can-go-to-hell/538308/15 "2010-05-04T19:50:13Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > You still don’t get it. The miranda reading only helps the prosecution. It’s to a criminal’s advantage if it isn’t read to them. You are correct, if this guy is in fact going to be treated as a criminal suspect, in that his statements can’t be used against him at trial. But it’s my belief, and probably the OP’s, that the right wing is complaining because he shouldn’t be granted any rights at all. They would rather he be whisked away to some extraterritorial cell and held indefinitely without trial, while being interrogated without access to a lawyer. ---
**Author:** ![VarlosZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d78d45/32.png) [@VarlosZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VarlosZ)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-and-peter-king-can-go-to-hell/538308/16 "2010-05-04T19:51:09Z")
Question about the law: if a suspect is not Mirandized, then any information obtained during during an interview with police can not be used against him in court. However, can said information be used against \*other \*people? ---
**Author:** ![MeDrewNotYou](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@MeDrewNotYou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeDrewNotYou)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-and-peter-king-can-go-to-hell/538308/17 "2010-05-04T19:51:24Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > We have to read miranda rights to potential terrorists? Really? All that does is insure the use of incriminating verbal evidence. It helps the prosecution, not criminals. Asking a terrorist if he knows of any other people involved makes perfect sense if you’re trying to stop additional attacks. Yes. The man is a citizen. He hears his rights, then you use all your deal-sweetening and legal punishments (plea deals, harsher charges/sentencing, etc.) to get him to talk. We don’t throw out the rules when questioning, say, a mob boss with hits out or a kidnapper whose victim is in danger, and we shouldn’t here. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-and-peter-king-can-go-to-hell/538308/18 "2010-05-04T19:54:29Z")
> [@MeDrewNotYou](#): > > Of course, the fact that the accused originally came from Pakistan, and is therefore Muslim probably plays a big role. When the suspect was originally thought to be a regular ole’ white guy, statements were relatively calm. Anti-Muslim bigotry is painfully obvious. That’s a complete pant-load of nonsense. Despite a trend of terrorism instigated by religious extremists there isn’t a huge backlash against Muslims in the United States and there never will be. Whether you like it or not, there are active groups in countries like Pakistan who, for reasons specifically based on religion, use terrorism in an attempt to force their views on others. Those are the bigots. Don’t mistake criticism of those who want to harm others as bigotry when it is the Islamic extremist who is intolerant to the violent extreme. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-and-peter-king-can-go-to-hell/538308/19 "2010-05-04T19:57:43Z")
> [@Raygun99](#): > > So we’re agreed then. Read him his Miranda rights. Not if you have the goods on him already. Getting information on additional people/bombs is now up for grabs. ---
**Author:** ![Uosdwis\_R.Dewoh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Uosdwis\_R.Dewoh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uosdwis_R.Dewoh)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-and-peter-king-can-go-to-hell/538308/20 "2010-05-04T20:00:01Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > I hope that by ‘there’ you mean everywhere. Otherwise, they could slip through, flying to someplace else, and then flying here. And even if they’re not trying to fly here NOW, they’re still a potential recruit for later. > > Yes it’s time for a house cleaning. And by ‘house’ I mean planet. Sucks for those Americans stuck in other countries not being able to fly back. You know what, Fuck em! They shouldn’t be abroad anyways. They can take a ship home. That reminds me. You guys should mine your harbours. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-and-peter-king-can-go-to-hell/538308.md?page=2)