# John McCain and Truthiness **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 20, 2006, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-and-truthiness/369470 "2006-08-20T18:35:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2006, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-and-truthiness/369470/1 "2006-08-20T18:35:27Z")
Ah, Johnny, Johnny, Johnny, you are such a disappointment. I remember those romantic days, when we had some hope that at last…at long, long last…we had an _honest_ conservative. One with whom we could argue with a straight face. Who would play square with us, and disagree from a position of integrity. Someone who might bring back and honest and respectable conservative party, one that doesn’t make obscene power deals with bigots and scoundrels. One who tells the truth, at least so far as he sees it. Well, not so much. “Most Americans — when they are asked ‘do you want to set a date for withdraw?" - John McCain, today on _Meet The Press_. Not so, John. Not even close, John. [http://www.pollingreport.com/iraq.htm](http://www.pollingreport.com/iraq.htm) > [@](#): > > Which comes closer to your view about U.S. troops in Iraq? The U.S. should set a timetable for withdrawal by announcing that it will remove all of its troops from Iraq by a certain date. The U.S. should keep troops in Iraq as long as necessary without setting any timetable for withdrawal Result: 57% to 40% in favor of a timetable. You’re lying, John. Lying. I’d love to cut you some slack, yet again, but no, its not possible. There are polls right at hand, you can read, you got staffers who can read. You gotta know this just flat isn’t true. Imprisonment couldn’t break you, torture couldn’t break you. Ambition did you in. Please go away now. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2006, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-and-truthiness/369470/2 "2006-08-20T18:53:10Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Well, not so much. > > “Most Americans — when they are asked ‘do you want to set a date for withdraw?" > > - John McCain, today on _Meet The Press_. > > Not so, John. Not even close, John. Not even close to what? That quote doesn’t mean anything in any language. What does it have to do with the rest of your OP? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2006, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-and-truthiness/369470/3 "2006-08-20T18:54:39Z")
You can parse it narrowly enough to make it fit. See, the kind of people who want us to cut and run, dishonoring our dead, aren’t \*real \* Americans _anyway_. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2006, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-and-truthiness/369470/4 "2006-08-20T18:55:10Z")
Is part of the _Meet The Press_ quote missing? I presume he went on to say that a majority of Americans were against a timetable? ---
**Author:** ![Mayo\_Speaks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c57346/32.png) [@Mayo\_Speaks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mayo_Speaks)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2006, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-and-truthiness/369470/5 "2006-08-20T18:55:20Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Not even close to what? That quote doesn’t mean anything in any language. What does it have to do with the rest of your OP? Methinks elucidator mangled the quote. Perhaps he’ll be back with the correct one. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2006, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-and-truthiness/369470/6 "2006-08-20T19:01:26Z")
> [@Mayo Speaks!](#): > > Methinks elucidator mangled the quote. Perhaps he’ll be back with the correct one. That happens with **elucidator** on occasion, usually when he tries to be witty. Remember, the commentary is far more important than the facts. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2006, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-and-truthiness/369470/7 "2006-08-20T19:08:33Z")
My bad, full quote is: " ‘do you want to set a date for withdraw?’ — they say no.” Oh, and Dave? Bite me, Dave. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2006, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-and-truthiness/369470/8 "2006-08-20T19:40:06Z")
Is there a cite for McCain’s comments? Be nice to be able to put them in context before jumping the gun on whether he’s lying or not…wouldn’t it? -XT ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2006, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-and-truthiness/369470/9 "2006-08-20T19:54:08Z")
What part of “today on _Meet the Press_” confuses you? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2006, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-and-truthiness/369470/10 "2006-08-20T19:57:28Z")
If this is directed at me, the part where the OP links the transcript to his thread so we can read for ourselves exactly what was said…instead of having it filtered through the OP’s perceptions. Is this an unreasonable request in your opinion 'luci? Are you saying no such transcript exists anywhere on the web? -XT ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2006, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-and-truthiness/369470/11 "2006-08-20T19:58:23Z")
[Here is the transcript with the quote.](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14390980/page/3/) ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2006, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-and-truthiness/369470/12 "2006-08-20T20:00:08Z")
I had already found it (took me, oh, 30 seconds at most), but thanks Jim. -XT ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2006, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-and-truthiness/369470/13 "2006-08-20T20:00:44Z")
Happy now? (Thanks, **Boyo** ) ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2006, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-and-truthiness/369470/14 "2006-08-20T20:04:18Z")
What McCain means is that people say, “No, **I** don’t want to set a witdrawal date for Ameican troops…” He leaves out the “… but SOMEBODY should.” part. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2006, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-and-truthiness/369470/15 "2006-08-20T20:05:15Z")
Now, would anyone like to talk about John McCain? If it wouldn’t distract too much from petty carping at me? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2006, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-and-truthiness/369470/16 "2006-08-20T20:15:37Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Happy now? (Thanks, Boyo) Not particularly, no. I don’t know why the attitude when I asked YOU for a simple cite (that SHOULD have been in your original OP). Not like it took more than googling ‘John McCain Meet The Press August 20’. Anyway… I believe this is the relevent paragraph to the OP: > [@](#): > > SEN. McCAIN: I don’t think so, in this respect. Most of the Americans, when you’re asked, “Do you want to set a date for withdrawal,” say no. Of course they’re frustrated. All of us are frustrated. I’ve expressed my frustrations to you this morning. But they are not ready to face the consequences of failure by setting a date certain for withdrawal, and I believe that, that they are largely, although frustrated, recognize the consequences of failure. And from 'luci’s other cite: > [@](#): > > “Which comes closer to your view about U.S. troops in Iraq? The U.S. should set a timetable for withdrawal by announcing that it will remove all of its troops from Iraq by a certain date. The U.S. should keep troops in Iraq as long as necessary without setting any timetable for withdrawal.” Options rotated. Half sample, MoE ± 4.5. As he quoted, as of 8/2-3/06, 57% presumably support a timetable, 40% presumably do not, with 4% unsure (and as noted above, its a half sample, with a MoE of plus or minus 4.5). Sorry for the summary, just getting it all straight. Ok…so, to say that John McCain lied one would have to prove that he knew about this poll…and that he accepts it as fact. Myself, looking at the wording of the thing (and the fact that like most polls its black or white with no shades of grey allowed), I’d have to say I probably would have answered yes to a timetable too…but with a boat load of qualifiers that the poll does not allow for. So, does the poll accurately reflect the current prevailing attitude of US citizens, given that? Gods know…I sure don’t. But…the key is, does John McCain THINK it does? I’d say, probably not. So, did he REALLY lie? Does this one statement REALLY have any bearing on his supposed ‘truthiness’, and can we make any kind of judgement reguarding it? I’d say…no. FWIW. Of course, I could legitimately be considered biased on this one, as I actually DO like John McCain and could conceivably vote for the man in the next presidental election. Not a sure thing by any means…but its possible. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2006, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-and-truthiness/369470/17 "2006-08-20T20:17:56Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Now, would anyone like to talk about John McCain? If it wouldn’t distract too much from petty carping at me? But petty carping at you is such _fun_. Besides, McCain could always claim that he was thinking of [this poll.](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06/26/AR2006062600250.html) I agree though - it is reasonable to say that in his Meet The Press comment he was misrepresenting or overlooking the majority of recent polling data on the subject of a timetable for withdrawal from Iraq. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2006, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-and-truthiness/369470/18 "2006-08-20T20:22:10Z")
Since the question has been asked twice over time in a CNN poll, and virtually the same question on a CBS poll (also in the OP link), and all 3 show a majority favor a timetable, abd the majority is getting larger… I’d have to agree this is proably a deliverate lie. I can’t imagine he doesn’t know this. Unless he’s insulated himself in by-invitation-only Republican “town hall meetings” like Bush. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2006, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-and-truthiness/369470/19 "2006-08-20T20:25:59Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Bite me, Dave. What is “Open the pod bay door, Hal”? I’ll take movie quotes for $400, Alex. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2006, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-and-truthiness/369470/20 "2006-08-20T20:28:34Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > …Besides, McCain could always claim that he was thinking of [this poll.](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06/26/AR2006062600250.html)… That poll was WAY BACK in June. In those ancient days, news was circulated by carrier pigeon, and opinion always ran behind the headlines. Fortunately the Internet was built in July and we’re all caught up now. 😉 [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-and-truthiness/369470.md?page=2)