# John McCain doesn't know shit about Iraq. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 19, 2008, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-doesnt-know-shit-about-iraq/441902 "2008-03-19T03:42:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2008, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-doesnt-know-shit-about-iraq/441902/1 "2008-03-19T03:42:38Z")
John McCain’s entire case for his own campaign is that having spent 5 1/2 years as a POW in Vietnam makes him an expert on the Middle East/Islamic terrorism/military strategy, etc. Apparently, though, Senator McCain [doesn’t know the first fucking thing about the ME](http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2008/03/18/mccain-stumbles-on-iran-and-al-qaeda/?mod=googlenews_wsj): > [@](#): > > McCain, who had visited Iraq a day earlier to talk with military commanders and Iraqi officials, spoke at an event in Amman, Jordan, where he expressed concern about Iranians “taking al Qaeda into Iran, training them and sending them back” to Iraq. But Iran and al Qaeda are associated with different branches of Islam. Iran is a mostly Shiite country and al Qaeda is primarily a Sunni militant group; Iran has been reported to help Shiite extremists in Iraq, but not their Sunni counterparts. > > McCain was flanked by the two other members of his congressional delegation: Connecticut Sen. Joe Lieberman and South Carolina Sen. Lindsey Graham, who are both supporters and close friends. According to a report in the Washington Post, Lieberman later whispered into McCain’s ear, prompting McCain to correct himself: “I’m sorry, the Iranians are training extremists, not al Qaeda. This guy is selling himself on his foreign policy cred and he doesn’t know the fucking difference between Sunni and Shia or aQ and the insurgency? I bet Barack Obama knows. I bet Hillary knows. I bet even Dubya knows by now. I am not at all reassured by the thought of someone who knows less about the Iraq situation than I do getting into the White House. We’ve already had eight years of that. ---
**Author:** ![bannerrefugee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c68b51/32.png) [@bannerrefugee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bannerrefugee)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2008, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-doesnt-know-shit-about-iraq/441902/2 "2008-03-19T04:03:08Z")
Obviously he cares about Iraq. He cares about exploiting the ME to win votes in November. He doesn’t give a shit about actually finishing the war well, if that was ever possible. No one that will vote for him knows why Sunni and Shia matter. As far as his likely voters are concerned they are a bunch of ragheads. He might give 2 shits for the soldiers who may die for his conceit. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2008, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-doesnt-know-shit-about-iraq/441902/3 "2008-03-19T04:06:36Z")
Well, really what difference does it make, its the End Times anyway… ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2008, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-doesnt-know-shit-about-iraq/441902/4 "2008-03-19T04:17:18Z")
He knows more about everything than you do, so _shut the fuck up_, please. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2008, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-doesnt-know-shit-about-iraq/441902/5 "2008-03-19T04:22:10Z")
[QUOTE=Gatopescado] He knows more about everything than you do, so _shut the fuck up_, please. [/QUOTE] Are you serious? ---
**Author:** ![bannerrefugee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c68b51/32.png) [@bannerrefugee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bannerrefugee)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2008, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-doesnt-know-shit-about-iraq/441902/6 "2008-03-19T04:31:57Z")
[QUOTE=Gatopescado] He knows more about everything than you do, so _shut the fuck up_, please. [/QUOTE] Which one of us? Cause you would know. ---
**Author:** ![bannerrefugee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c68b51/32.png) [@bannerrefugee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bannerrefugee)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2008, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-doesnt-know-shit-about-iraq/441902/7 "2008-03-19T05:05:40Z")
[QUOTE=bannerrefugee] Which one of us? Cause you would know. [/QUOTE] I still wonder. What don’t I know? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2008, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-doesnt-know-shit-about-iraq/441902/8 "2008-03-19T06:30:54Z")
Its like Colin Powell all over again, a decent and honorable man debased and degraded by his own ambition. ---
**Author:** ![Anomalous\_Reading](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b3f665/32.png) [@Anomalous\_Reading](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anomalous_Reading)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2008, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-doesnt-know-shit-about-iraq/441902/9 "2008-03-19T06:35:25Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] Its like Colin Powell all over again, a decent and honorable man debased and degraded by his own ambition. [/QUOTE] I always thought what undid Powell was being a good soldier… Not ambition. Could be wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Punoqllads](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d2c977/32.png) [@Punoqllads](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Punoqllads)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2008, 8:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-doesnt-know-shit-about-iraq/441902/10 "2008-03-19T08:15:38Z")
Obviously, everyone who hates America is part of Al Qaeda. Iran, communists, Phred Phelps, Mr. Rogers… ---
**Author:** ![Waverly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/57b2e6/32.png) [@Waverly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waverly)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2008, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-doesnt-know-shit-about-iraq/441902/11 "2008-03-19T10:56:48Z")
Al Qaeda is like porn. You know it when you see it. And seeing it where you damn well feel like seeing it in the conservative bible. Now when is someone going to reach under this stall and jerk me off? ---
**Author:** ![Fritz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c57346/32.png) [@Fritz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fritz)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2008, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-doesnt-know-shit-about-iraq/441902/12 "2008-03-19T12:54:27Z")
Gramps McSame has been a bit foggy and has been distracted by poorly-fitting dentures and Depends that have a tendency to ride up. Plus, he’s not getting a regular nap these days. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2008, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-doesnt-know-shit-about-iraq/441902/13 "2008-03-19T13:11:09Z")
[QUOTE=bannerrefugee] He might give 2 shits for the soldiers who may die for his conceit. [/QUOTE] I think his youngest son is deployed there, so I am not sure I can agree with this. ---
**Author:** ![Hamadryad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6de8d8/32.png) [@Hamadryad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamadryad)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2008, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-doesnt-know-shit-about-iraq/441902/14 "2008-03-19T13:13:06Z")
This is the part where people jump in to say, “I bet the other potential candidates aren’t experts in the Middle-East either! So just shut up about it, nyah!” while totally (possibly deliberately) missing the point that THEY have not set themselves up as experts in foreign policy. Which I know you already said, but you and I BOTH know that no matter how many times we say it, the whole “hypocrite” thing will be expertly evaded by his supporters. I say “evaded” because if it’s brought up, they’ll slickly get back off of the point. I’ve watched it happen over and over. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2008, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-doesnt-know-shit-about-iraq/441902/15 "2008-03-19T13:53:42Z")
First of all, McCain did correct himself. Secondly, there have been operational links between al-Qaeda and Iran many times, and McCain knows this. Frankly, I’m shocked that the OP doesn’t. So it isn’t as if he was saying something that was so terribly off. Just as an initial cite to those that may doubt what I said above, I’ll just quote from the report of the [9/11 Commission.](http://www.gpoaccess.gov/911/index.html) I’m sure all of you do recall that implementation of all of their recommendations was a Democratic campaign promise. From page 61: > [@](#): > > Turabi sought to persuade Shiites and Sunnis to put aside their divisions and join against the common enemy. In late 1991 or 1992, discussions in Sudan > between al Qaeda and Iranian operatives led to an informal agreement to cooperate in providing support—even if only training—for actions carried out primarily against Israel and the United States.Not long afterward, senior al Qaeda > operatives and trainers traveled to Iran to receive training in explosives. In the > fall of 1993, another such delegation went to the Bekaa Valley in Lebanon for > further training in explosives as well as in intelligence and security. Bin Ladin > reportedly showed particular interest in learning how to use truck bombs such > as the one that had killed 241 U.S. Marines in Lebanon in 1983.The relationship > between al Qaeda and Iran demonstrated that Sunni-Shia divisions did not > necessarily pose an insurmountable barrier to cooperation in terrorist operations. > As will be described in chapter 7, al Qaeda contacts with Iran continued > in ensuing years. There is of course more, but I think this proves the overall point. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2008, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-doesnt-know-shit-about-iraq/441902/16 "2008-03-19T14:01:05Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Moto] First of all, McCain did correct himself. [/QUOTE] Only after a “Democrat” whispered the correction in his ear. 😃 I don’t think this was a simple mistake, or shows that McCain is going senile. I think it’s more an indication that the candidate is confusing his fantasy notion of how the world is put together with the real thing. You get votes by promoting the fantasy, and results by dealing with the reality. It can be bloody confusing having to hold both systems within the confines of a single mind. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2008, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-doesnt-know-shit-about-iraq/441902/17 "2008-03-19T14:17:01Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Moto] First of all, McCain did correct himself. [/QUOTE] No, someone corrected him. This was no slip of the tongue either as he said it in at least two seperate situations > [@](#): > > As you know, there are al Qaeda operatives that are taken back into Iran, given training as leaders, and they’re moving back into Iraq. That sound familiar to you? This isn’t from the OP though it’s from a interview he did. [http://hughhewitt.townhall.com/talkradio/transcripts/Transcript.aspx?ContentGuid=ae522a49-6c82-4791-a76e-44ebb718bf32](http://hughhewitt.townhall.com/talkradio/transcripts/Transcript.aspx?ContentGuid=ae522a49-6c82-4791-a76e-44ebb718bf32) ---
**Author:** ![bannerrefugee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c68b51/32.png) [@bannerrefugee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bannerrefugee)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2008, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-doesnt-know-shit-about-iraq/441902/18 "2008-03-19T14:25:15Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Moto] First of all, McCain did correct himself. Secondly, there have been operational links between al-Qaeda and Iran many times [/QUOTE] So you are saying this Turabi fellow is some sort of al-Qaeda operative? I thought he was a Sudanese political leader who has some ties to Bin Ladin. Maybe you could post something linking Iran to al-Qaeda in Iraq? Because that is the point of this discusion. ---
**Author:** ![NurseCarmen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5daacb/32.png) [@NurseCarmen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NurseCarmen)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2008, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-doesnt-know-shit-about-iraq/441902/19 "2008-03-19T14:25:22Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Moto] First of all, McCain did correct himself. [/QUOTE] If he did just misspeak, why did say the same thing earlier on [Hugh](http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/us_elections/article3582503.ece)Hewitt’s radio show? Secondly, if you believe that there is a lot of love in Iran for AQI, you have certainly deluded yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Waverly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/57b2e6/32.png) [@Waverly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waverly)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2008, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-doesnt-know-shit-about-iraq/441902/20 "2008-03-19T14:25:48Z")
I hate to be dense, but isn’t there a country that has many demonstrable ties to Al Qaeda yet never seems to be on the receiving end of US threats? I think there is at least one, but I’m not sure. I think it rhymes with Howdy Labia. If we really wanted to get tough on terrorism, wouldn’t we put Howdy Labia on notice? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-doesnt-know-shit-about-iraq/441902.md?page=2)