# John McCain doesn't know shit about Iraq. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 19, 2008, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-doesnt-know-shit-about-iraq/441902 "2008-03-19T03:42:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![NurseCarmen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5daacb/32.png) [@NurseCarmen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NurseCarmen)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2008, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-doesnt-know-shit-about-iraq/441902/21 "2008-03-19T14:27:54Z")
[QUOTE=Gatopescado] He knows more about everything than you do, so _shut the fuck up_, please. [/QUOTE] This made me laugh. Did you yell this as you were typing? And did you hit the return key extra hard to prove your point? Heh, I remember when the right used to call the LEFT shrill. The right certainly has taken over _that_ mantle these days. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2008, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-doesnt-know-shit-about-iraq/441902/22 "2008-03-19T14:30:48Z")
[QUOTE=NurseCarmen] Secondly, if you believe that there is a lot of love in Iran for AQI, you have certainly deluded yourself. [/QUOTE] If you think Iran won’t work with them while thinking “the enemy of my enemy is my friend” you’re certainly deluded yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2008, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-doesnt-know-shit-about-iraq/441902/23 "2008-03-19T14:44:30Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Moto] First of all, McCain did correct himself. [/quote] No he didn’t. Joe Lieberman corrected him. > [@](#): > > Secondly, there have been operational links between al-Qaeda and Iran many times No, there haven’t. > [@](#): > > Just as an initial cite to those that may doubt what I said above, I’ll just quote from the report of the [9/11 Commission.](http://www.gpoaccess.gov/911/index.html) I’m sure all of you do recall that implementation of all of their recommendations was a Democratic campaign promise. > > From page 61: > > There is of course more, but I think this proves the overall point. No, actually it doesn’t prove shit and has nothing to do with Iraq or the Iranian state. Thank you for playing, though. The FACT is that aQ and the Iranina state have no working relationship and it was breathtakingly ignorant for McCain to believe that Iran was training aQ operatives. It is SHAMEFUL that I am better informed about Iraq than John McCain and it should bother you too. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2008, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-doesnt-know-shit-about-iraq/441902/24 "2008-03-19T14:45:41Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Moto] If you think Iran won’t work with them while thinking “the enemy of my enemy is my friend” you’re certainly deluded yourself. [/QUOTE] Iran hates Sunnis more than it hates the US. They would ally with the US against aQ before they would ally with aQ against anything. ---
**Author:** ![flight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbce88/32.png) [@flight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flight)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2008, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-doesnt-know-shit-about-iraq/441902/25 "2008-03-19T15:09:47Z")
I’m glad to see there is at least a little reasoned discussion going on now, but I am sad to say that a lot of the posts in this thread look like a liberal Freeper thread. We’re better than that guys. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2008, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-doesnt-know-shit-about-iraq/441902/26 "2008-03-19T15:12:59Z")
Which they (Iran) actually did when we went into Afghanistan. If John Kerry’s Viet Nam war expierence didn’t make him the better candidate, how does McCain’s Viet Nam war expierence make him an expert on these things. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2008, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-doesnt-know-shit-about-iraq/441902/27 "2008-03-19T15:26:52Z")
[QUOTE=Waverly] I hate to be dense, but isn’t there a country that has many demonstrable ties to Al Qaeda yet never seems to be on the receiving end of US threats? I think there is at least one, but I’m not sure. I think it rhymes with Howdy Labia. [/QUOTE] Pakistan? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2008, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-doesnt-know-shit-about-iraq/441902/28 "2008-03-19T15:58:24Z")
What is wrong with Iran.? Bush listed his axis of evil states. Then attacked the first two. Why does Iran think it has a stake in keeping us bogged down in Iran. ? Because they think that if they actually could win in Iraq ,Iran would be next. If I were them I would do everything possible to prevent the US from winning. They have not come close to it. Of course the majority of insurgents are from Saudi Arabia anyway. They are financing the fight. Why don’t we talk about that. ? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Lance\_Murdoch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/47e85d/32.png) [@Captain\_Lance\_Murdoch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Lance_Murdoch)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2008, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-doesnt-know-shit-about-iraq/441902/29 "2008-03-19T16:02:10Z")
This is what AQII has to say about Iran. July 9 2007 > [@](#): > > We give… the leaders of Iran a period of two months to stop all forms of support to the rejectionists (AQ code for Shiites) of Iraq, and stop direct and indirect interference in the affairs of the Islamic state. Otherwise, expect a fierce war that will annihilate you, which we have been preparing for over the past four years and just waiting to issue the orders to wage the campaign. “Annihilate” is not a word typically associated with a good working relationship. Additionally, AQ has threatened all Shiites wherever they live in a thinly veiled threat against Iran. Additionally, AQII has specifically attacked the holiest of Shiite sites to make it’s point clear. In fairness to McCain, however, it may not have been the dumbest thing said by an American official in Iraq yesterday. Cheney once again tied Iraq to September 11. > [@](#): > > This long-term struggle became urgent on the morning of September 11, 2001. That day, we clearly saw that dangers can gather far from our own shores and find us right there at home. ---
**Author:** ![NurseCarmen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5daacb/32.png) [@NurseCarmen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NurseCarmen)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2008, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-doesnt-know-shit-about-iraq/441902/30 "2008-03-19T19:52:57Z")
Well Mr. Moto? Any thoughts on **Captain Lance Murdoch** ’s post above? Are you still deluded enough to think that there is a love fest between AQI and Iran? Or will you admit that maybe you were talking out of turn? ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2008, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-doesnt-know-shit-about-iraq/441902/31 "2008-03-19T19:57:16Z")
[QUOTE=Anomalous Reading] I always thought what undid Powell was being a good soldier… Not ambition. Could be wrong. [/QUOTE] Well, see, I’ve always been puzzled by the notion that McCain was a great military guy. He flew a jet, got shot down almost immediately and spent the rest of the war in a shithole NVA prison. That would seem to define “bad pilot” or “victim of extremely bad luck”, but not great military man. Now, nobody is going to take away from his ability to survive prison camp, me included, and in fact I personally know (and used to work for) and respect the former [Colonel](http://www.scopesys.com/cgi-bin/bio2.cgi?bio=A035) who was the longest survivor of that hell, so please don’t start ragging on me. ---
**Author:** ![Autolycus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@Autolycus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Autolycus)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2008, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-doesnt-know-shit-about-iraq/441902/32 "2008-03-19T20:09:38Z")
[QUOTE=bannerrefugee] I still wonder. What don’t I know? [/QUOTE] Clearly you don’t know what you don’t know. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2008, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-doesnt-know-shit-about-iraq/441902/33 "2008-03-19T20:58:47Z")
Yup it’s not a mistake, it’s what McCain believes: [Statement By John McCain On Fifth Anniversary Of Iraq Invasion](http://www.johnmccain.com/Informing/News/PressReleases/b00406d1-3b31-48e9-8aa6-c0eb8f3b8097.htm) > [@](#): > > "Today in Iraq, America and our allies stand on the precipice of winning a major victory against radical Islamic extremism. The security gains over the past year have been dramatic and undeniable. Al Qaeda and Shia extremists – with support from external powers such as Iran – are on the run but not defeated. Sometimes fantasy is so much more satisfying than reality, that we believe it to be true. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2008, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-doesnt-know-shit-about-iraq/441902/34 "2008-03-19T20:58:50Z")
> [@](#): > > Clearly you don’t know what you don’t know. Is that a known unknown or an unknown known? ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2008, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-doesnt-know-shit-about-iraq/441902/35 "2008-03-19T21:02:57Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Iran hates Sunnis more than it hates the US. They would ally with the US against aQ before they would ally with aQ against anything. [/QUOTE] I certainly find this to be highly questionable. I think that seperate Islamic factions that both claim the West as a common enemy can, and in fact have, set aside their differences enough to glory in shedding infidel blood. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2008, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-doesnt-know-shit-about-iraq/441902/36 "2008-03-19T21:08:37Z")
[QUOTE=Captain Lance Murdoch] This is what AQII has to say about Iran. July 9 2007 “Annihilate” is not a word typically associated with a good working relationship. Additionally, AQ has threatened all Shiites wherever they live in a thinly veiled threat against Iran. Additionally, AQII has specifically attacked the holiest of Shiite sites to make it’s point clear. In fairness to McCain, however, it may not have been the dumbest thing said by an American official in Iraq yesterday. Cheney once again tied Iraq to September 11. [/QUOTE] \*\*This long-term struggle became urgent on the morning of September 11, 2001. That day, we clearly saw that dangers can gather far from our own shores and find us right there at home. \*\* Cheney’s resemblance to Darth Vader aside, this statement is quite true. I see no reference to Iraq in particular in this statement, but I’ll have to concede that it was plucked out of a statement that included references to Iraq. You know, if we really believed that Saddam HAD WMD’s (which was a safe assumption, since we likely SOLD them to him during the Iran/Iraq War) in the face of 9/11, I understand the precept for going to war, especially given Saddam’s frequent anti-US/Israel sabre rattling, as well as his endless efforts to incubate the notion that he did in fact “have something”, likely to keep Iran at bay. BUT, now that we haven’t found anything, and the war is exposed as an episode of knee-jerking in lieu of aftermath-planning, then it’s time to go as soon as we think it’s a feasible move to leave the new government to it’s own provision of security and stability. ---
**Author:** ![Punoqllads](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d2c977/32.png) [@Punoqllads](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Punoqllads)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2008, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-doesnt-know-shit-about-iraq/441902/37 "2008-03-19T21:11:29Z")
[QUOTE=Squink] Yup it’s not a mistake, it’s what McCain believes: [Statement By John McCain On Fifth Anniversary Of Iraq Invasion](http://www.johnmccain.com/Informing/News/PressReleases/b00406d1-3b31-48e9-8aa6-c0eb8f3b8097.htm) > [@](#): > > Today in Iraq, America and our allies stand on the precipice of winning a major victory against radical Islamic extremism. The security gains over the past year have been dramatic and undeniable. Al Qaeda and Shia extremists – with support from external powers such as Iran – are on the run but not defeated. Sometimes fantasy is so much more satisfying than reality, that we believe it to be true. [/QUOTE] I don’t read this quote as linking AQ and Shia extremists in anything other than saying that both groups are radical extremists intent on damaging US interests. I don’t think it explicitly says that Iran is supporting AQ, but that Iran is one of the powers that is supporting radical extremists in Iraq. ---
**Author:** ![11811](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/1/9d8465/32.png) [@11811](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/11811)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2008, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-doesnt-know-shit-about-iraq/441902/38 "2008-03-19T21:15:51Z")
[QUOTE=Waverly] Al Qaeda is like porn. You know it when you see it. [/QUOTE] And if you’re a Republican, you get a hard-on. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2008, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-doesnt-know-shit-about-iraq/441902/39 "2008-03-19T21:22:47Z")
[QUOTE=FoieGrasIsEvil] …then it’s time to go as soon as we think it’s a feasible move to leave the new government to it’s own provision of security and stability. [/QUOTE] And if that doesn’t happen? How long do we wait for this happy turn? It’s been five years now, and I see scant reason for hope. How blank is this check you urge me to sign? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2008, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-doesnt-know-shit-about-iraq/441902/40 "2008-03-19T21:29:27Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Iran hates Sunnis more than it hates the US. They would ally with the US against aQ before they would ally with aQ against anything. [/QUOTE] So you just ignore my above cite? [There was this news story from 2007.](http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/content/2007/s1895588.htm) but I suppose you’ll ignore that as well. If Iran sees an advantage to them in fostering instability in Iraq, they will fund Sunni and Shia alike and give them arms and training. There is no reason that we should be surprised by this - unless, of course, you’re so closed-minded that you think that the Iranians think in only religious or ideological terms. There isn’t any reason to suppose that. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-doesnt-know-shit-about-iraq/441902.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-doesnt-know-shit-about-iraq/441902.md?page=3)