# John McCain has officially jumped the shark. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 13, 2007, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-has-officially-jumped-the-shark/391965 "2007-02-13T03:08:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![LouisB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@LouisB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouisB)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2007, 10:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-has-officially-jumped-the-shark/391965/21 "2007-02-13T10:09:51Z")
I think McCain is insane. Really. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2007, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-has-officially-jumped-the-shark/391965/22 "2007-02-13T12:11:53Z")
[QUOTE=wolf\_meister] Heck I’m going to defend John McCain. I don’t think for a minute he believes in the whacko creationist, “intelligent design squad” bullshit. Doesn’t anyone remember the 2000 election? McCain got off to a very strong start in the primaries as the Republican nominee. So, what happened then? “Dubya” started visiting the whacko nut-job conservative places (remember his visit to Bob Jones University?). Then “Dubya” pursued his bullshit “good old boy” persona and got elected president. :mad: I’d be amazed if John McCain believes any of that bullshit. I think he realizes it’s the kind of shit he’ll have to sling if he wants to get elected President in 2008. (which is what _should_ have happened in 2000) :mad: Anyone else think John McCain was royally screwed when “Dubya” started playing the “good old boy” character? And of course this all preceded the Al Gore screwjob that would transpire in the next few months of 2000. I suppose from my posting, some people might get an inkling of a hint that I have not been too happy with the election and re-election of Dubya. Well, yeah. :mad: [/QUOTE] Honestly, I don’t care if he believes it or not. Either he’s blatantly kissing ass to get votes or he’s an idiot who believes it and for me either one is reason enough for me to not vote for him. The intelligent design issue was also enough for me to hold my nose and vote for Granholm over DeVos. **John Mace** , McCain isn’t going to go in there and shoot them and their crackpottery down. Best case scenario is that he simply avoids mentioning it. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2007, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-has-officially-jumped-the-shark/391965/23 "2007-02-13T13:24:32Z")
[QUOTE=Captain Carrot] I have now lost the respect I had for him due to CFR. (It was flawed, sure, but something.) [/QUOTE] Well, I have something more direct than that to help your CFR respect fade faster. [McCain Taps Cash He Sought To Limit](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/02/10/AR2007021001510.html?nav=rss_politics) ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2007, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-has-officially-jumped-the-shark/391965/24 "2007-02-13T13:40:41Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] Can we at least wait until we hear what he says to this group before we jump all over him? Besides, **Dio** , under what circumstances would you vote for McCain anyway? If the Dems ran Zel Miller? [/QUOTE] I’m not **Dio** , but I was rooting for him to sign on as Kerry’s veep candidate in 2004. And within a couple of weeks of his (allegedly) declining Kerry’s (alleged) offer, McCain kissed up to Bush, and has been nearly indistinguishable from a wingnut Kool-Aid drinker ever since. This is just one more data point. I mean, do you expect him to be any more critical of his hosts in this talk than he was of Falwell when he spoke at Liberty U.'s graduation last spring? [QUOTE=mstay] I thought the McCain=maverick meme crashed and burned back in 2004 when McCain was suckling on Bush’s balls the entire presidential campaign. [/QUOTE] Unfortunately, it hasn’t crashed and burned in the mainstream media. References to McCain as a ‘maverick’ abound there. For instance, here’s [MSNBC](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17086228/) just a few days ago: > [@](#): > > The maverick Arizona politician was attending an influential Munich defence conference… A Google News search turns up lots more. And Media Matters has collected a bunch of them [here](http://mediamatters.org/items/200702020016), with correspondents for the Washington Post, CNN, the Wall Street Journal, etc. recently calling McCain a maverick. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2007, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-has-officially-jumped-the-shark/391965/25 "2007-02-13T13:42:58Z")
Damn, ID is a deal breaker for me. Why McCain, Why? This stinks to their perverted non-enlightened ignorant heaven. Why is Obama sounding better daily? I am back to hoping Rudy can somehow take the Rep Nom. I still do not believe he can. Jim ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2007, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-has-officially-jumped-the-shark/391965/26 "2007-02-13T14:03:05Z")
[QUOTE=What Exit?] Damn, ID is a deal breaker for me. Why McCain, Why? This stinks to their perverted non-enlightened ignorant heaven. Why is Obama sounding better daily? I am back to hoping Rudy can somehow take the Rep Nom. I still do not believe he can. [/QUOTE] Considering Rudy’s run to the right, he would have given that keynote address if he had the chance. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2007, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-has-officially-jumped-the-shark/391965/27 "2007-02-13T14:15:03Z")
> [@](#): > > … but dude…Creationism? Either you’re a total numbskull (which I don’t believe), or you simply lack any sense of embarrassment or shame. Either way, it’s almost impossible for me to take you seriously anymore. First, with regard to what McCain believes from your cite, > [@](#): > > “I think Americans should be exposed to every point of view,” he said. “I happen to believe in evolution…I respect those who think the world was created in seven days. Should it be taught as a science class? Probably not.“ By the way, creationists don’t believe the world was created in seven days…so much for what McCain knows about creation. Now that we know where McCain stands on evolution, what is the problem with him currying support from creationists? Why should this block of voters be ignored ? ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2007, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-has-officially-jumped-the-shark/391965/28 "2007-02-13T14:17:22Z")
[QUOTE=jsgoddess] Considering Rudy’s run to the right, he would have given that keynote address if he had the chance. [/QUOTE] It is scary the way the more moderate candidates kowtow to the Religious Right. This might be the only time I have ever hoped a candidate I liked is just giving lip service. However, even if true, it still diminishes both of them. McCain looked a lot better in 2000 than he does right today. Jim ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2007, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-has-officially-jumped-the-shark/391965/29 "2007-02-13T14:25:04Z")
:rolleyes: Let’s all remember this blatant pandering when people say (and continue to say) that the RR doesn’t have a stranglehold on the GOP’s scrotum. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2007, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-has-officially-jumped-the-shark/391965/30 "2007-02-13T14:30:21Z")
OK, let’s cross him off the list. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2007, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-has-officially-jumped-the-shark/391965/31 "2007-02-13T14:40:35Z")
McCain is a whore. If he had stuck to his principles I could consider voting for him. But he sold out on the torture issue, letting it get watered down and then neutered by Bush’s signing statement so to be meaningless. He has done nothing but suck up to Bush for the past 3-4 years after showing some independence earlier. He stuck a knife in his supposed friend John Kerry’s back regarding Kerry’s feeble attempt at humor. Anyone with two brain cells knew that Kerry did not mean to insult the troops, but instead of sticking up for a friend that he knew meant no harm, he decided to score the easy political points and join the pile-on. John McCain stands firmly for only one thing- his own ambition. ---
**Author:** ![GLWasteful](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f05b48/32.png) [@GLWasteful](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GLWasteful)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2007, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-has-officially-jumped-the-shark/391965/32 "2007-02-13T14:41:00Z")
[QUOTE=Harborwolf] **John Mace** , McCain isn’t going to go in there and shoot them and their crackpottery down. Best case scenario is that he simply avoids mentioning it. [/QUOTE] And considering who he’ll be playing to, there’s no chance of that scenario playing out at all. The Discovery Institute will make damned sure of that. And inre **The Flying Dutchman** ’s post of what McCain has said on the record about his take on evolution v creationism, I’ve tightened up the quote: > [@McCain](#): > > “I think Americans should be exposed to every point of view,” he said. “I happen to believe in evolution…I respect those who think the world was created in seven days. **Should it be taught as a science class? Probably not**.“ Bolding, of course, mine. Something that really bugs the hell out of me are those who will kiss ass in a roundabout fashion and refuse to say that Creationism is most assuredly not science. Damnit, man, there is no way in hell that it should be taught in a science class. Comparative religions class? Hokay. Although even at that, it would only be touched on tangentially at best. But it’s not science. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2007, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-has-officially-jumped-the-shark/391965/33 "2007-02-13T14:54:52Z")
[QUOTE=The Flying Dutchman] First, with regard to what McCain believes from your cite, By the way, creationists don’t believe the world was created in seven days…so much for what McCain knows about creation. Now that we know where McCain stands on evolution, what is the problem with him currying support from creationists? Why should this block of voters be ignored ? [/QUOTE] This is what McCain says when asked about ID: > [@](#): > > Daily Star: Should intelligent design be taught in schools? > > ``` > McCain: I think that there has to be all points of view presented. But they’ve got to be thoroughly presented. So to say that you can only teach one line of thinking I don’t think is - or one belief on how people and the world was created - I think there’s nothing wrong with teaching different schools of thought. > > Daily Star: Does it belong in science? > > McCain: There’s enough scientists that believe it does. I’m not a scientist. This is something that I think all points of view should be presented. > > ``` He thinks ID should be taught in school. He thinks it’s a scientific “point of view.” He thinks that scientists think it belongs in science. He appears to think that evolution is a “belief.” No way he’s going to tell these morons that ID isn’t science and has no business being taught as such in school. He’s going to tell them that non-science should be taught as science, and that makes him an asswipe regardless of what he actually believes. BTW, the fact that he “respects” YEC also makes him an asswipe. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2007, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-has-officially-jumped-the-shark/391965/34 "2007-02-13T15:09:27Z")
Actually, he said he respects the _people_ (“those who think the world was created in seven days”) who believe in YEC. That may make no difference to you, but still… ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2007, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-has-officially-jumped-the-shark/391965/35 "2007-02-13T15:13:57Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] Actually, he said he respects the _people_ (“those who think the world was created in seven days”) who believe in YEC. That may make no difference to you, but still… [/QUOTE] He respects morons whose votes he wants? Cool. If only I was American and able to vote for him. But that would be moronic. Isn’t there any level of pandering politicians won’t stoop? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2007, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-has-officially-jumped-the-shark/391965/36 "2007-02-13T15:14:05Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] Actually, he said he respects the _people_ (“those who think the world was created in seven days”) who believe in YEC. That may make no difference to you, but still… [/QUOTE] That’s like saying he believes the earth is round but respects those who think it’s flat. It’s just not a position deserving of respect. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2007, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-has-officially-jumped-the-shark/391965/37 "2007-02-13T15:16:08Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] That’s like saying he believes the earth is round but respects those who think it’s flat. It’s just not a position deserving of respect. [/QUOTE] Once again, he’s not respecting the position, but the people who hold the position. I don’t think that even you would say that all those flat earth people deserve zero respect just for one misquided view that they hold. Um, would you? ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2007, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-has-officially-jumped-the-shark/391965/38 "2007-02-13T15:18:52Z")
[QUOTE=tagos] He respects morons whose votes he wants? Cool. If only I was American and able to vote for him. But that would be moronic. Isn’t there any level of pandering politicians won’t stoop? [/QUOTE] No, there isn’t. They will stoop to whatever level they believe to be politically expedient. But with respect to the issue of disrespect, suppose a person believes the earth is flat, but is nevertheless kind, generous, and charitable in every way. I cannot imagine disrespecting them as people just because they are what you call morons. Knowledge is not necessarily always the most important aspect of humanity. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2007, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-has-officially-jumped-the-shark/391965/39 "2007-02-13T15:27:49Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] No, there isn’t. They will stoop to whatever level they believe to be politically expedient. But with respect to the issue of disrespect, suppose a person believes the earth is flat, but is nevertheless kind, generous, and charitable in every way. I cannot imagine disrespecting them as people just because they are what you call morons. Knowledge is not necessarily always the most important aspect of humanity. [/QUOTE] Flat earthism is harmless. Young Earth creationism is not. It is a marker for a host of other stupid bigoted beliefs that impact on the rest of us on a daily basis. Such people should be isolated from the body politic and left to crawl back under whatever ignorant rock that was sheltering them before the Republicans made them their ‘base’. Not pandered to. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2007, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-has-officially-jumped-the-shark/391965/40 "2007-02-13T15:29:17Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] Once again, he’s not respecting the position, but the people who hold the position. I don’t think that even you would say that all those flat earth people deserve zero respect just for one misquided view that they hold. Um, would you? [/QUOTE] There’s an issue of context, though. I don’t believe he’s saying he respects them for _other_ qualities, I think he’s implying that the YEC position is, in itself “respectable,” even though it’s not his own. In answer to your larger question. I can like people with nutty or ignorant views and even admire or respect unrelated qualities about them. I confess that it’s hard for me to respect them _intellectually_, though. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-has-officially-jumped-the-shark/391965.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-has-officially-jumped-the-shark/391965.md?page=3)