# John McCain has officially jumped the shark. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 13, 2007, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-has-officially-jumped-the-shark/391965 "2007-02-13T03:08:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-has-officially-jumped-the-shark/391965/61 "2007-02-14T01:50:26Z")
Rock Hudson? Could he sing any better than Harris or Burton? ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-has-officially-jumped-the-shark/391965/62 "2007-02-14T04:37:07Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] Like I said, you’re not voting in a vacuum. It’ll probably be a choice between Hillary (or Obama) and McCain (or Giulini). If it’s JM v HRC, then I’ve seen both pander shamelessly, and I can’t really use that a criterion for choosing. I can vote 3rd party, but I’ll only do that if it’s clear CA is going heavily for one candidate. What’s a poor boy to do??? [/QUOTE] All politicians pander. We just vote for the ones that pander to the groups that we like. Of course, I vote for the one that panders to the groups I least object to. IDers are among the groups I most object to, so anyone that panders to them doesn’t get my vote. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-has-officially-jumped-the-shark/391965/63 "2007-02-14T04:46:17Z")
And anyway, it’s only pandering if it’s sucking up to a side you despise. If it’s supportive of a cause on your side, it’s being responsive to the people’s will. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-has-officially-jumped-the-shark/391965/64 "2007-02-14T05:17:07Z")
[QUOTE=What Exit?] So what if it is Obama vs. McCain? Which way would you vote? I am becoming less and less sure myself. I might vote Obama. Rudy is still my flawed favorite of the four. Jim [/QUOTE] I don’t know about that Obama fellow. I hear he’s not Black enough. 😃 Obama vs McCain… again it depends on the situation in Iraq 18 months from now. > [@Harborwolf](#): > > All politicians pander. We just vote for the ones that pander to the groups that we like. I’m not part of that “we”. I look at whether the group being pandered to matters. I have little worry about ID being taught in schools, and if it is, it’ll be because they have influence at the state or local level, not the federal level. If I see someone pandering to economic populists, I get a lot more worried, because that’s something that can affect the overall economy. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-has-officially-jumped-the-shark/391965/65 "2007-02-14T05:31:18Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] … If I see someone pandering to economic populists, I get a lot more worried, because that’s something that can affect the overall economy. [/QUOTE] I clutch my pearls in dismay! Have these people no decency? ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-has-officially-jumped-the-shark/391965/66 "2007-02-14T05:37:25Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] I clutch my pearls in dismay! Have these people no decency? [/QUOTE] Look, if you _must_ manhandle the family jewels, do it in private, okay? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-has-officially-jumped-the-shark/391965/67 "2007-02-14T06:13:02Z")
[QUOTE=kaylasdad99] Still, Richard Burton, singing _How to Handle a Woman?_, and _I Wonder What the King Is Doing Tonight_, and _Camelot_? Difficult concept to wrap my head around. [/QUOTE] I grew up listening to the Broadway cast years before the movie was made and for me, Burton personifies Arthur (the role in Camelot, not the character in Morte d’Arthur or even The Once and Future King). You can get an idea of what Burton (and the others) sounded like at [this sales site with 30 second samples of each song](http://music.yahoo.com/release/38019). (Remember, however, that most of Arthur’s songs are half-spoken and none are sung out in full voice.) I’m guessing that Rock Hudson also played the role of Arthur, since as far as I know, his only participation in that play was _starring_ in a touring version. It is dificult to picture him singing the Lancelot parts and the Mordred and Pellinore roles would not generally get the term “starring” tagged onto them. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-has-officially-jumped-the-shark/391965/68 "2007-02-14T07:04:59Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] BTW, the fact that he “respects” YEC also makes him an asswipe. [/QUOTE] Just curious. Would Obama be an asswipe if he agreed to be a keynote speaker at a Muslim convention ? ---
**Author:** ![scotandrsn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a4c791/32.png) [@scotandrsn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scotandrsn)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-has-officially-jumped-the-shark/391965/69 "2007-02-14T07:36:30Z")
[QUOTE=The Flying Dutchman] Just curious. Would Obama be an asswipe if he agreed to be a keynote speaker at a Muslim convention ? [/QUOTE] If kowtowing to the Muslim wing of the Democratic party was hamstringing the party’s future and Obama had worked hard to cultivate an image of going in a different direction than the rest of the Muslim-lovin’ Dems, and expected everyone to hold their nose and vote for him anyway in spite of this obvious betrayal of his earlier maverick posturing, then yes he would be an asswipe. At least as big a one as McCain is in this instance. I would say its too soon to call the results of the primaries in any case. All these people who have announced early are just providing a longer period time for themselves to be targets. Obama is going to drop out in time to re-run for his Senate seat. Hillary will probably be in it for the long haul, but it will be more than clear by next year’s first ballots that she doesn’t stand a chance, she will have taken such a media beating by that time. Same with McCain. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 7:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-has-officially-jumped-the-shark/391965/70 "2007-02-14T07:57:54Z")
[QUOTE=The Flying Dutchman] Just curious. Would Obama be an asswipe if he agreed to be a keynote speaker at a Muslim convention ? [/QUOTE] Are you implying that all Muslims are as stupid as YECs? For shame. If he spoke at a Muslim how to keep women locked up convention, he’d surely be an asswipe. If McCain spoke at any number of Christian conventions, which I’m sure he will, he would not be. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 8:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-has-officially-jumped-the-shark/391965/71 "2007-02-14T08:01:15Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] This is what McCain says when asked about ID: He thinks ID should be taught in school. He thinks it’s a scientific “point of view.” He thinks that scientists think it belongs in science. He appears to think that evolution is a “belief.” No way he’s going to tell these morons that ID isn’t science and has no business being taught as such in school. He’s going to tell them that non-science should be taught as science, and that makes him an asswipe regardless of what he actually believes. BTW, the fact that he “respects” YEC also makes him an asswipe. [/QUOTE] Besides that, only the total loonies claim they believe in six day creation. Teaching Biblical creationism in schools has been shot dead. Just about any creationist is going to say to teach ID. Do we know that McCain knows the difference, or is his ID like that of the textbook they wanted to use in Dover PA, with creationism scratched out and ID written in its place? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-has-officially-jumped-the-shark/391965/72 "2007-02-14T16:00:51Z")
[QUOTE=The Flying Dutchman] Just curious. Would Obama be an asswipe if he agreed to be a keynote speaker at a Muslim convention ? [/QUOTE] For what reason? I know of no Muslim organizations that are actively promoting the corruption of science education in the U.S. If there was a _particular_ Muslim group that was actively campaigning to have vaccinations removed from the requirements for admission to elementarty schools (as one rather small but loud group of Muslims interpret their beliefs) and he went to speak to encourage them to carry on their work, then he would deserve scorn. If he went to speak to a group of Muslims, who included persons who opposed vaccinations, promoted Sharia Law for their own community, and insisted that the women in their community wore burqas, but who were not disobeying the laws in those regards and were not actively campaigning to change U.S. Separation of Church and State and he did not champion the elimination of school admission regulations to curry their favor, then I see no problem. The Creationist group to whom he will speak is not a religious group with a whole array of activities and values; it is a special interests group founded explicitly to get Creationism (in disguise) inserted into public school science education courses. Why bring up Muslinms in that context? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-has-officially-jumped-the-shark/391965/73 "2007-02-14T16:05:33Z")
[QUOTE=tomndebb] Why bring up Muslinms in that context? [/QUOTE] Think about who you’re talking to. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-has-officially-jumped-the-shark/391965/74 "2007-02-14T16:26:30Z")
[QUOTE=EddyTeddyFreddy] And anyway, it’s only pandering if it’s sucking up to a side you despise. If it’s supportive of a cause on your side, it’s being responsive to the people’s will. 😃 [/QUOTE] I know this is a joke but even so, it’s wrong. Pandering is adopting a position you have always oppose, or thought ridiculous, just for the purpose of getting something you want. Something like an elective office. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-has-officially-jumped-the-shark/391965/75 "2007-02-14T16:28:35Z")
[QUOTE=David Simmons] I know this is a joke but even so, it’s wrong. Pandering is adopting a position you have always oppose, or thought ridiculous, just for the purpose of getting something you want. Something like an elective office. [/QUOTE] Very true (see: Mitt Romney). But that’s the rationale often used to defend such pandering. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-has-officially-jumped-the-shark/391965/76 "2007-02-14T16:29:21Z")
[QUOTE=The Flying Dutchman] Just curious. Would Obama be an asswipe if he agreed to be a keynote speaker at a Muslim convention ? [/QUOTE] Not necessarily. If it were just a group of Muslims, I see no reason that he would be. Why do you ask? ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-has-officially-jumped-the-shark/391965/77 "2007-02-14T16:45:34Z")
[QUOTE=EddyTeddyFreddy] Very true (see: Mitt Romney). But that’s the rationale often used to defend such pandering. [/QUOTE] Ah, now I see your point. Some of us slow ones need warning signs, like **Notice Sarcasm To Follow**. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-has-officially-jumped-the-shark/391965/78 "2007-02-14T16:59:07Z")
[QUOTE=David Simmons] I know this is a joke but even so, it’s wrong. Pandering is adopting a position you have always oppose, or thought ridiculous, just for the purpose of getting something you want. Something like an elective office. [/QUOTE] [Nitpick] While Pandering may include hypocrisy, I have always seen pandering as going for the lowest theme, not reverisng one’s own position. “Bread and circuses,” free beer on voting day, supporting xenophobic policies because they are popular, not because they are effective (regardless whether one is xenophobic, oneself). I don’t think that Jerry Falwell or David Duke pander less simply because they actually believes the silliness they promote. [/Nitpick] ---
**Author:** ![Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/do_not_taunt/32/2968_2.png) [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Do_Not_Taunt)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2007, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-has-officially-jumped-the-shark/391965/79 "2007-02-15T01:36:10Z")
[QUOTE=scotandrsn] Obama is going to drop out in time to re-run for his Senate seat. [/QUOTE] Which would be a funny time to drop out, since he isn’t up for re-election until 2010. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2007, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-has-officially-jumped-the-shark/391965/80 "2007-02-15T01:51:40Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] Not necessarily. If it were just a group of Muslims, I see no reason that he would be. Why do you ask? [/QUOTE] If I remember **Flying Dutchman’s** past posts correctly, he doesn’t have a very high opinion of Islam in general. I think he’s projecting his own opinion onto all of us - Islam is bad, thus we _all_ think Islam is bad, thus in our minds speaking to a group of Muslims is as bad as speaking to a group of YEC. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-has-officially-jumped-the-shark/391965.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-has-officially-jumped-the-shark/391965.md?page=5)