# John McCain has officially jumped the shark. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 13, 2007, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-has-officially-jumped-the-shark/391965 "2007-02-13T03:08:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2007, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-has-officially-jumped-the-shark/391965/121 "2007-02-17T02:44:12Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] That’s funny. I think it shows just the opposite. He’s willing to place more priority on his ambition to be President than on the life of his son. [/QUOTE] I’ll bet you don’t have any kids. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2007, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-has-officially-jumped-the-shark/391965/122 "2007-02-17T02:51:25Z")
Can I have a piece of that bet? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2007, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-has-officially-jumped-the-shark/391965/123 "2007-02-17T02:54:45Z")
John McCain has never been principled. This is a guy who helped Charles Keating steal people’s life savings. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2007, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-has-officially-jumped-the-shark/391965/124 "2007-02-17T02:59:45Z")
[QUOTE=tomndebb] Can I have a piece of that bet? 😃 [/QUOTE] I almost never bet for money, and judging from your response, its a good decision. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2007, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-has-officially-jumped-the-shark/391965/125 "2007-02-17T04:11:11Z")
[QUOTE=The Flying Dutchman] I almost never bet for money, and judging from your response, its a good decision. 😃 [/QUOTE] Wise decision. I guess **Tom’s** smiley gave it away. For the record, I have two children. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2007, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-has-officially-jumped-the-shark/391965/126 "2007-02-17T04:28:13Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Really, **Weirddave,** what made you think a Doper with the handle **BobLibDem** would support HRC? **She’s** no liberal, she’s a false-flag DLC DINO just like Bill; maybe four or five degrees to Bill’s left, but no more than that. [/QUOTE] It’s funny that it seems like so many conservatives assume that libs will automatically support HRC, but I don’t think real leftie loosies are all that excited by her. She wouldn’t be my first choice in the field either. I’m kind of smitten with Obama at the moment (I think he might actually have a moral center) and am intrigued by Richardson as well. I would probably _settle_ for Hillary if she was up against McCain or Romney (or God forbid, Brownback), but if she was against Giuliani, I’m not so sure I wouldn’t cross over. I think Democrats and liberals in general have mire ambivilent feelings about HRC than the right (and the media) seems to realize. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2007, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-has-officially-jumped-the-shark/391965/127 "2007-02-17T13:18:14Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Really, **Weirddave,** what made you think a Doper with the handle **BobLibDem** would support HRC? **She’s** no liberal, she’s a false-flag DLC DINO just like Bill; maybe four or five degrees to Bill’s left, but no more than that. [/QUOTE] Bill was no liberal either, but he had genuine compassion and was competent. His eight years of peace and prosperity look awfully good right now. Hillary spent far too much time in bed with the hawks. DINO maybe, but I prefer the term Vichy Dem. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2007, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-has-officially-jumped-the-shark/391965/128 "2007-02-20T01:00:32Z")
[QUOTE=RickJay] John McCain has never been principled. [/QUOTE] More evidence of his essential political cowardice: [Now he says something](http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070219/ap_on_el_pr/mccain2008) > [@](#): > > BLUFFTON, S.C. - Republican presidential candidate John McCain said Monday the war in Iraq has been mismanaged for years and former Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld will be remembered as one of the worst in history. Uh huh. John, John, John, the time for this message was years ago. Now you’re just pissing on the headstone. Which, by the way, you went out of your way to polish a few months ago: > [@](#): > > The comments were in sharp contrast to McCain’s statement when Rumsfeld resigned in November, and failed to address the reality that President Bush is the commander in chief. > > “While Secretary Rumsfeld and I have had our differences, he deserves Americans’ respect and gratitude for his many years of public service,” McCain said last year when Rumsfeld stepped down. I know the average American voter has the attention span of a ferret, but you have to wonder how much more of this it will take before people start to notice. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2007, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-has-officially-jumped-the-shark/391965/129 "2007-02-20T01:07:13Z")
[QUOTE=Cervaise] More evidence of his essential political cowardice: [Now he says something](http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070219/ap_on_el_pr/mccain2008). [/QUOTE] [Roe v. Wade Too.](http://patriotboy.blogspot.com/search/label/Multiple%20Choice%20McCain) ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2007, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-has-officially-jumped-the-shark/391965/130 "2007-02-20T02:01:38Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] Besides, **Dio** , under what circumstances would you vote for McCain anyway? If the Dems ran Zel Miller? [/QUOTE] I’d run Zell. Out of town. On a rail. With tar. And feathers. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2007, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-has-officially-jumped-the-shark/391965/131 "2007-02-20T02:17:18Z")
[QUOTE=Evil Captor] On a rail. With tar. And feathers. [/QUOTE] No rope? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2007, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-has-officially-jumped-the-shark/391965/132 "2007-02-20T02:21:07Z")
[QUOTE=Squink] [Roe v. Wade Too.](http://patriotboy.blogspot.com/search/label/Multiple%20Choice%20McCain) [/QUOTE] This does not have the same weight as his odd twirling on Iraq. McCain has been pretty consistent on his opposition to the _Roe v. Wade_ decision and most of the claims for him waffling are actually statments he has made over many years regarding the specifics of how to reverse it. He has been _moderately_ opposed to a Constitutional Amendment to reverse it (which is where a lot of quotes originate) and he has varied a bit regarding whether the Supreme Court should reverse themselves (or whether the Supreme Court should be packed to get a reversal) in ways that actually appear that he is thinking about the issue and not simply waffling. I have never been a fan of McCain, but this particular claim involves quote mining to present him as more of a flip-flopper than he has actually been. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2007, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-has-officially-jumped-the-shark/391965/133 "2007-03-03T03:27:50Z")
So, did “ThinkProgress” pull a fast one on this? I went looking to find the text of McCain’s speech, and it turns out that the whole thing was an event put on by The World Affairs Council of Seatle and the CityClub of Seattle. TDI was a “co-presenter” at the event, but McCain’s speech was about foreign policy and the issue of ID never even came up. [Link to ABC News article.](http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=2897153&page=1) > [@](#): > > McCain is beng hammered by a liberal group for associating with the Discovery Institute, although the luncheon is being formally hosted by the CityClub of Seattle and the Seattle World Affairs Council, with the Discovery Institute is one of nine organizations “co-presenting” the event. I can’t see how ThinkProgress’s summary is accurate: > [@](#): > > Yet, on February 23, Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) will be the keynote speaker for the most prominent creationism advocacy group in the country. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2007, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-has-officially-jumped-the-shark/391965/134 "2007-03-03T03:50:20Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > So, did “ThinkProgress” pull a fast one on this? I think their summary over-focuses on the connection between McCain’s speech and the DI, but I don’t think they actually lied about it. After all, the DI used their co-sponsorship of the speech for their own political hay-making, as [ThinkProgress’s link](http://www.discovery.org/scripts/viewDB/index.php?command=view&id=271&program=Discovery%20Institute&isEvent=true) makes clear: > [@](#): > > Discovery Institute is pleased to co-present with CityClub of Seattle and the Seattle World Affairs Council a luncheon featuring U.S. Senator John McCain. So yeah, McCain was indeed a “keynote speaker” for this “advocacy group”, as well as for the other eight co-sponsors. The fact that his talk wasn’t about creationism is important as an indication of his own views and priorities, but it doesn’t change the fact that he agreed to be the guest of a group that advocates teaching creationism in science classes. If you don’t want to be associated with somebody, you shouldn’t voluntarily associate yourself with them. If you do, it’s natural for people to assume that you approve of them, or at least are willing to stifle your disapproval in order to take advantage of their support. The title of **Dio** ’s OP was slightly inaccurate and consequently somewhat misleading, though. The original ThinkProgress headline was “McCain To Deliver Keynote Speech For Creationists”, not “for Creationism”. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2007, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-has-officially-jumped-the-shark/391965/135 "2007-03-03T05:00:45Z")
[QUOTE=Kimstu] I think their summary over-focuses on the connection between McCain’s speech and the DI, but I don’t think they actually lied about it. After all, the DI used their co-sponsorship of the speech for their own political hay-making, as [ThinkProgress’s link](http://www.discovery.org/scripts/viewDB/index.php?command=view&id=271&program=Discovery%20Institute&isEvent=true) makes clear: So yeah, McCain was indeed a “keynote speaker” for this “advocacy group”, as well as for the other eight co-sponsors… [/quote] How do you get “co-sponsor” from “co-presenter”? Here’s a [link](http://66.218.69.11/search/cache?p=mccain+seattle+city+club+of+seattle&ei=UTF-8&fr=my-vert-web-top&x=wrt&u=seattlecityclub.org/&w=mccain+seattle+city+club+clubs+seattle&d=MAB00hIeOV9o&icp=1&.intl=us) to the (cached) website of The City Club of Seattle. Note the “sponsors” (Boeing, Microsoft, and Primera) and then the “co-presenters”, of which TDI is one. I don’t believe it’s accurate to say that McCain was presenting “for” TDI. I never claimed ThinkProgress “lied”, btw, but the article is pretty darn misleading, to say the least. And it appears that many people swallowed it without question. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2007, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-has-officially-jumped-the-shark/391965/136 "2007-03-03T13:39:13Z")
[QUOTE=tomndebb] McCain has been pretty consistent on his opposition to the _Roe v. Wade_ decision and most of the claims for him waffling are actually statments he has made over many years regarding the specifics of how to reverse it. [/quote] [Like this one, from back in the medieval days of 1999? :dubious:](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/campaigns/wh2000/stories/mccain082499.htm) > [@](#): > > I’d love to see a point where it is irrelevant, and could be repealed because abortion is no longer necessary. But certainly in the short term, or even-the long-term, I would not support repeal of Roe v. Wade, which would then force X number of women in America to [undergo] illegal and dangerous operations. True, he did say a few days later that what he meant was exactly the opposite of what he said. > [@](#): > > ways that actually appear that he is thinking about the issue and not simply waffling. “Thinking about the issue” in terms of how to best position himself politically on it, that is. There’s no evidence of anything deeper. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2007, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-has-officially-jumped-the-shark/391965/137 "2007-03-03T17:28:12Z")
He is hidden in the fog of politics. The closer a pol gets to being president the more they try to hide. They all try to become all things to all power groups and then get lost. I do not know if it is the need for huge money but all serious contenders seem to go through it. They pander to money and polls. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-has-officially-jumped-the-shark/391965.md?page=6)