# John McCain is dead: Let's discuss his legacy **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 26, 2018, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-is-dead-lets-discuss-his-legacy/820282 "2018-08-26T00:31:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2018, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-is-dead-lets-discuss-his-legacy/820282/41 "2018-08-26T18:33:12Z")
McCain of course has the claim to respect for his service in the military and how he bore captivity: I have to disagree with a FB friend who was all ranty about how he was an Annapolis legacy admit and was being groomed for privilege all along - sure he was, but unlike some corporate heir it involved flying an A-4 into the teeth of the SAMs, while people who finagled ways to stay out of harm’s way in that time proceeded in their later lives to get to the goal that he never reached. That McCain is so celebrated on the political side as The Maverick for being basically what those of us who were voters in the later 20th Century would have called a “normal” RW conservative politician, standing for what was expected of that ideology and doing politics like it had always been done, shows just how far the body politic has fallen. He becomes a mythical foil for a current leadership that does not dare even be 10% divergent… hell, that does not dare even hint that they could use some convincing, nor to even consider “maybe we could be glad to have won and be passing our platform without gleefully acting like hateful asses”. His Town Hall “good decent man” moment and his concession speech seem a century distant, it becomes almost unimaginable for a candidate to speak so in the age of “lock her up!!”. That raises his profile and makes him loom large compared with the tiny men who now hold power. Legislatively, his work on campaign finance reform has been essentially mooted in the post- Citizens United era and by the current “hey, try and stop me” shamelessness at the top. His downvote on ACA repeal, which may we remember, happened after he voted to help bring it to a vote at all, was to a large extent a denial-of-victory gesture towards Trump/McConnell along the lines of “this is what happens when you try to bully a dead man… I am 90% on your side and you think you can threaten to make me pay for not going all the way quietly?” Demanding that he should have become an active, aggressive thorn on the side of the current leadership is overlooking that he actually agreed with most of the platform. But that he is seen as a giant because he preferred to go about it in the old style, and that we now think of the old style as some sort of Golden Age of comity, when in fact the knives were just as sharp but wielded in private and with kinder words attached, reminds us how bad the new styles and ways are. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2018, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-is-dead-lets-discuss-his-legacy/820282/42 "2018-08-26T19:03:04Z")
> [@MichaelEmouse](#): > > It’s difficult for me to see how someone can voluntarily choose to remain in a Vietnamese torture prison for years yet choose Palin and not vote more independently of his party even as an 80-year old with terminal cancer. > > I guess he figured being in the GOP was the best way to increase US military capability but when it comes to the US, which spends more than all potential adversaries combined, just how much more will be enough? Politicians in general and Republicans in particular aren’t very deep on policy. Given the demands of fundraising, they can’t be. McCain would often simplify matters by asking his staff who the villain was. He was [out of his depth](http://delong.typepad.com/sdj/2008/09/john-mccain--24.html) during the [financial crisis](http://delong.typepad.com/sdj/2008/09/john-mccain--19.html) of 2008. As a man, I suspect McCain was guided by duty. As the Republican Party squashed internal dissent what would have been routine disagreement in the 1970s or 1980s looked Mavericky in later years. He was a conservative Republican when he became a Senator in 1987, and remained where he was as his party shifted right. So he ended up as a moderate, relatively speaking. His sense of duty was divided between country and his Republican peer group. > [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > He stands out for being one of the few remaining moderate Republicans in federal office (likely the only one in the Senate besides Lisa Murkowski) rather than the Atticus Finch-esque legacy that many are now trying to ascribe to him, but at least he defied his party sometimes in an era where utter compliance is expected. But we like hero worship and concoct sterling legacies by shining tin until the oxide layer is gone, so McCain the Maverick is the patron saint of the day, to be forgotten in a week as the Republican Party continues to dismantle basic institutions of democracy. ## Pretty much this. Who will replace McCain? [Vox](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/8/25/17781526/john-mccain-replacement-arizona-governor-doug-ducey) has a discussion, but [538’s treatment is much better](https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/what-john-mccains-death-means-for-the-senate/). The Governor who will select the replacement is an establishment Republican with higher aspirations, the Arizona GOP is divided between Tea Partiers and establishmentarians, so appointing a caretaker makes a lot of sense. That might be Jon Kyl, the guy who blocked 6 Obama appointments to the US Treasury during the worst financial crisis since WWII, because he didn’t like delays in creating regulations for his pet issue. [Jon Kyl - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon_Kyl) : see the section on Internet Gambling, partially penned by YT. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2018, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-is-dead-lets-discuss-his-legacy/820282/43 "2018-08-26T20:09:35Z")
(Insert required but vapid military worship here) I’d think more of the man as a Senator if he’d followed his own maxim of “Country First” when it counted just a \*little \*more often. He instead was a dependable party vote no matter what the issue. ---
**Author:** ![snoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@snoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snoe)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2018, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-is-dead-lets-discuss-his-legacy/820282/44 "2018-08-26T22:03:57Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > Who will replace McCain? [Vox](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/8/25/17781526/john-mccain-replacement-arizona-governor-doug-ducey) has a discussion, but [538’s treatment is much better](https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/what-john-mccains-death-means-for-the-senate/). The Governor who will select the replacement is an establishment Republican with higher aspirations, the Arizona GOP is divided between Tea Partiers and establishmentarians, so appointing a caretaker makes a lot of sense. That might be Jon Kyl, the guy who blocked 6 Obama appointments to the US Treasury during the worst financial crisis since WWII, because he didn’t like delays in creating regulations for his pet issue. [Jon Kyl - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon_Kyl) : see the section on Internet Gambling, partially penned by YT. Worth noting (I don’t think anyone has in this thread): if McCain had retired before June 1st of this year, his seat would have been up for election this year. By not retiring, he allowed the GOP’s pick to serve two years. At the time (back in May), it was clear he was not going to return to work. One last small bit of evidence to place on the scales as we evaluate the truth of his “country over party” image. * * * Matt Yglesias has pointed out that McCain’s defense of Obama at that 2008 rally is considered notable because McCain defended his opponent from a scurrilous racist attack _despite McCain’s being a Republican_\*.\* We should keep that in mind. I’m happy to admit that McCain was one of the national GOP politicians I respected\* the most, but he cleared a very low bar. \*I’m leaving his behavior in captivity out of my “calculus of respect” – it’s an outlier experience in his life and among that of his colleagues, too. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2018, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-is-dead-lets-discuss-his-legacy/820282/45 "2018-08-26T22:38:14Z")
> [@snoe](#): > > Matt Yglesias has pointed out that McCain’s defense of Obama at that 2008 rally is considered notable because McCain defended his opponent from a scurrilous racist attack _despite McCain’s being a Republican_\*.\* We should keep that in mind. That bar is currently so low a terrapin would trip over it. Trump regularly refers to opponents—which is anyone who disagrees with him at any time—with insults and ethnic slurs, and I have yet to see a Republican leader vocally object to the incivility beyond suggesting that Trump should reduce his Twitter posts. Trump _threatened to jail his opponent if elected during a policy debate_ like a Third World demagogue and _not one Republican_ went on record to say that this was inappropriate behavior by their candidate. _Not even John McCain._ Good of McCain to correct the woman about the wholly non-factual claim that Obama was “an Arab” (the dude must have eight parents and an evil twin brother who looks looks like Danny DeVito stashed away somewhere) but if that is the threshold for displaying kind of radical integrity in politics that is far from normal. If aspiring to not facilitating a conspiracy theory is what it takes to be distinguished from the pack, we are in a lot of trouble in an era where large sections of the electorate uncritically accept completely baseless allegations that feed their irrational fears. People with conservative beliefs and values deserve representation because in the end of the day democracy is fundamentally about representing the interests of the majority in aggregate. It should not be, however, about concocting baseless allegations against the opposition; polarizing the electorate through fear, uncertainty, and doubt; and pushing through legislation without public oversight and objective evaluation. And while McCain talked a big game about standing up for what is right, he far to often laid down for what is convenient. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2018, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-is-dead-lets-discuss-his-legacy/820282/46 "2018-08-26T23:08:15Z")
James Fallows: [INDENT]…with John McCain’s terminal illness… just one Republican senator joining the Democrats and independents would give them 50 votes, against only 49 Republicans… And in even with all members present, a total of two Republican senators have it in their power to create a 51-vote majority and impose limits on an executive they know to be out of control. …remember: Every one of them swore an oath to defend the U.S. Constitution, not simply their own careerist comfort. And not a one of them, yet, has been willing to risk comfort, career, or fund-raising to defend the constitutional check-and-balance prerogatives of their legislative branch. They now confront a president who has been named in a felony guilty plea as having directed criminal activities. (It didn’t get this far or this crystal-clear with Richard Nixon.) Who is routinely discussed as a potential security risk by his own military and intelligence-agency officials. Who ridicules their former Senate colleague for not bending fully to his will as attorney general. Who is manifestly unable to contain his impulses and resentments, while holding a job whose most important qualification is temperamental control. Who …[/INDENT] > **[America Is Withstanding the Test of Trump. The Republican Congress Is Not.](https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/08/looking-backward/568546/)** > > The institutional fabric of the United States has proven more tenacious and resilient in responding than many feared. But his presidency has also exposed a critical failure. Two Republican Senators. Two. Or even one. They don’t have to necessarily switch parties. They could still demand votes on tax cuts for plutocrats. All we’re asking is for them to fulfill their sworn duties. > [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > People with conservative beliefs and values deserve representation because in the end of the day democracy is fundamentally about representing the interests of the majority in aggregate. It should not be, however, about concocting baseless allegations against the opposition; polarizing the electorate through fear, uncertainty, and doubt; and pushing through legislation without public oversight and objective evaluation. And while McCain talked a big game about standing up for what is right, he far to often laid down for what is convenient. Given their flip-flops on free trade, and the bases lukewarm perceptions of the Dec 2017 plutocrat tax cuts, I’m thinking that conservatism isn’t defined so much by principle or even policy preferences. It’s tribalism all the way down. The conversations I thought I was having for decades turned out to be nonsense. I might be wrong about that. I’m genuinely confused about what modern American conservatism is; I only know that it’s not what I thought it was and it wasn’t what conservatives said it was. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2018, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-is-dead-lets-discuss-his-legacy/820282/47 "2018-08-27T13:23:03Z")
At the moment it isn’t nice to speak ill of the dead. He was one Republican who wasn’t always an asshole. He did stop the death of ACA. But he did give us Sarah Palin. He was basically a noble man but also a flawed man. Not someone I would vote for, but not someone I would wish ill upon. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2018, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-is-dead-lets-discuss-his-legacy/820282/48 "2018-08-27T13:29:11Z")
Different part of his legacy. Who was the last failed Presidential Nominee to get this much attention when he passed away? I don’t think there has been one in my lifetime. The only other Senator I recall getting this level of attention was Ted Kennedy. A failed to get the nomination public figure. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2018, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-is-dead-lets-discuss-his-legacy/820282/49 "2018-08-27T14:08:19Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > Different part of his legacy. > > Who was the last failed Presidential Nominee to get this much attention when he passed away? I don’t think there has been one in my lifetime. The only other Senator I recall getting this level of attention was Ted Kennedy. A failed to get the nomination public figure. You could make a case for Gerald Ford but of course he had been president, albeit without winning an election. There was a little fuss for Goldwater, another failed Arizonan. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2018, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-is-dead-lets-discuss-his-legacy/820282/50 "2018-08-27T14:48:07Z")
Hearing of McCain’s passing put me in mind of this old poem and this seems as good a place to share it as any other. Requiem by Robert Louis Stevenson: Under the wide and starry sky, Dig the grave and let me lie. Glad did I live and gladly die, And I laid me down with a will. This be the verse you grave for me: Here he lies where he longed to be; Home is the sailor, home from sea, And the hunter home from the hill. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2018, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-is-dead-lets-discuss-his-legacy/820282/51 "2018-08-27T15:07:38Z")
I don’t like starting Pit threads, and this is about John McCain so I’m posting it here. It’s a C&P from something my Trump-supporting uncle, a Vietnam-era Navy veteran, shared on his FB page. NB: He did not write this. He shared it from Connecticut Supporters for President Donald J Trump. > [@](#): > > OK, McCain died. At least the republicans get their seat back. He did not die in action nor did he ever serve honorably. He was not a “war hero”. He was a disgrace as a US senator. He was going to be court martialed when he got back from Vietnam but his father stepped in saved his ass and he became decorated instead…he was not a republican…he was a war monger. He voted against getting rid of Obamacare, was an obstructionist to Trump…also was part of the phony Russian dossier AND being so sick should have stepped down a long time ago and let the republican governor of AZ pick his replacement. Most likely his wife gets it which is how the dope in MO McCaskill got her seat when her husband died. McCain IS the poster child for TERM LIMITS!! He did something like 40 years in the senate and all because in AZ they have a cross vote primary. It’s been Democrats for 15 years that have kept him in that seat because they voted for him in the primaries! > His father was the Admiral in charge of the Pacific fleet prosecuting the war in Vietnam. > Becauseof this he got preferential treatment in the Navy. He was allowed to become a Navy pilot. But he was a terrible pilot. > He crashed two navy Jets in his early career. Then while aboard the Aircraft Carrier USS Forrestal, he got angry because he had to wait in line to take off on a bombing run. > He shut off his engines, opened the cockpit, and in his haste to exit the aircraft to chew someone out about his having to " wait", he hit the button that released his live bombs onto the deck of the Forrestal. > He took off running, as the bombs exploded, which set off a chain reaction of bombs from adjacent aircraft, and the ensuing explosions and fires killed 133 sailors aboard the Forrestal. > While his fellow sailors were fighting the fire, he went to the pilot’s lounge below decks and watched the men fight the fire on closed circuit TV. > Hours later, he took off with a New York Times reporter buddy of his, and went on to say that after seeing the effects of those bombs on the Forrestal, he was beginning to question the morality of dropping those bombs on the Viet Cong. > He was the direct cause of 133 deaths on his own ship, and was never reprimanded. He was nowhere to be found as the Forrestal had to limp to the Philippines for months of repair work. > He was married then. His wife was stricken with debilitating injuries in an automobile accident, and while she was hospitalized for more than 5 months, was off gallivanting with anything in a skirt. > Upon returning from Vietnam Nam, he found his wife was disfigured by her injuries, which included a shattered pelvis, arm, and legs. In order to save her legs, doctors performed 23 surgeries on her, and had to remove significant portions of the bones in her legs, which left her shorter, and unable to walk, and in a wheelchair, she had to use a catheter. > McCain was disinterested in his first wife’s predicament. She had to go through grueling physical therapy to learn to walk again. > After he left the Navy, he was intent on a career in politics. He and His wife had gotten to know Ronald and Nancy Reagan, and he was eager to jump into politics. > But he decided he needed a more visually pleasing young woman by his side. He callously divorced Carol, the mother of his three children, and immediately jumped into the sack with new wife Cindy, who was 18 years younger. > Upon learning of this, the Reagans were shocked and angered by how he had treated Carol. > While campaigning for congress, he used pictures of himself posing with Mr. And Mrs. Reagan, but there was no hearty endorsement offered by the Reagans. > His new young wife was also an heiress to an Arizona Brewing fortune. > And let us not forget he was one of the Keating 5, who had helped swindle life savings from countless Americans in the Savings and Loan scandal of the 1980’s. He was in it up to his eyeballs. > Yet he was well-connected in Washington, and parlayed his connections into a seat in the United States Senate. > So before the tearful tributes start, be sure you remember the facts about this self-proclaimed Maverick. The facts do not agree with that portrait of a heroic patriot and great American. > With due respect to his family, he was never the great man so many portray him as. > I do not wish the man any harm or ill-will. But neither should we allow this false narrative fairy-tale about this scoundrel of a man as he faces his eternal fate. > And now you know the whole story. Donald already knew the story. So when he was called a draft Dodger just remember there are 133 dead navy sailors that probably wish he had been a draft Dodger rather than an Admirals son. Addressing only one point, McCain did not fire the Zuni rocket that caused the fire on _Forrestal_. The rocket was accidentally fired by an F-4B, #110, and the rocket _hit_ McCain’s A-4 Skyhawk. [[.pdf link](http://www.jag.navy.mil/library/investigations/USS%20FORRESTAL%20FIRE%2012%20AUG%2069%20PT%203.pdf)] But apparently facts don’t matter. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2018, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-is-dead-lets-discuss-his-legacy/820282/52 "2018-08-27T15:46:45Z")
Most Trump fans and liberals agree on one thing - they are both bashing McCain now. As they say politics makes strange bedfellows. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2018, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-is-dead-lets-discuss-his-legacy/820282/53 "2018-08-27T16:15:57Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > Most Trump fans and liberals agree on one thing - they are both bashing McCain now. As they say politics makes strange bedfellows. I don’t see too many liberals bashing McCain. I disagreed with him on many issues, particularly the suitability of Palin to be vice president, but he was an honorable man unlike virtually any other Republican. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2018, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-is-dead-lets-discuss-his-legacy/820282/54 "2018-08-27T16:19:38Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > Most Trump fans and liberals agree on one thing - they are both bashing McCain now. As they say politics makes strange bedfellows. That statement is an exemplar of false equivalence. “Liberals” and others refuting McCain’s legacy as a maverick on the basis of a disconnect between his statements and actual voting record are doing so on the basis of fact, and will attest that McCain was at least a “normal” politician in a period of abnormality. Trump and his followers are manufacting untruths from whole cloth to defame everything about McCain’s legacy out of pure unadulterated spite. I didn’t care much for Hillary Clinton, but that doesn’t make me “bedfellows”, strange or otherwise, with people who claim that she lacked qualifications to run for president, that she was running a child sex ring out of a pizzeria, that she was personally responsible for the Benghazi attack, and that the government should “lock her up”. There is a qualitative difference between legitimate criticism and unbridled and irrational hatred. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2018, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-is-dead-lets-discuss-his-legacy/820282/55 "2018-08-27T16:40:45Z")
To change the tone a bit, I want to offer this: To worry about McCain’s legacy is a fool’s errand. In the end, he will have none. His accomplishments, both in office and in the military, were not such that he will be remembered in 20 years except by true wonks and in 100 years not even by those in particular. Focusing on his legacy now is to participate in a certain level of hagiography. It’s to focus on something that is very ephemeral and transitive that will fade at a rate than can be calculated with a stopwatch. McCain changed no policies, nor was in a position to really do so. His legacy, such as it is, will be trivial and meaningless. He’s a trivia question waiting to happen: “Who was defeated by the first black president?” There are, I suppose, worse legacies. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2018, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-is-dead-lets-discuss-his-legacy/820282/56 "2018-08-27T16:41:50Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > He was basically a noble man but also a flawed man. Not someone I would vote for, but not someone I would wish ill upon. That’s about the best thing a politician could wish for from voters on the other side of the aisle really. ---
**Author:** ![EscAlaMike](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/escalamike/32/4177_2.png) [@EscAlaMike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EscAlaMike)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2018, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-is-dead-lets-discuss-his-legacy/820282/57 "2018-08-27T16:48:03Z")
John McCain had firsthand experience of the horrors and atrocities of war, and he spent his entire political career making sure that that experience could be shared with as many people as possible. I didn’t know John McCain personally of course, so I can’t speak for him as a person, but there was nothing honorable about John McCain’s political career. He contributed to bringing suffering and death to untold thousands. His biggest political legacy was his unapologetic warmongering. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2018, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-is-dead-lets-discuss-his-legacy/820282/58 "2018-08-27T17:04:38Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > McCain changed no policies, nor was in a position to really do so. His legacy, such as it is, will be trivial and meaningless. Someone who really wants to make a difference for the world will find a way to get into a position to really do so. Someone with the personal credibility and leadership stature that McCain had could have done so. But he didn’t. The fact that, as you say, his legacy will be trivial is far more damning to him than it would be to most politicians. ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2018, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-is-dead-lets-discuss-his-legacy/820282/59 "2018-08-27T19:26:45Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > Different part of his legacy. > > Who was the last failed Presidential Nominee to get this much attention when he passed away? I don’t think there has been one in my lifetime. The only other Senator I recall getting this level of attention was Ted Kennedy. A failed to get the nomination public figure. The media has been over the top. But, I think it is more to do with that McCain was almost a member of the media himself. He’s been doing the Sunday morning talk show routine ever since he got into office. And, it’s a slow news cycle going into Labor Day weekend. McCain’s death is the Gary Condit/Cindy Sheehan of 2018 slow news cycle. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2018, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-is-dead-lets-discuss-his-legacy/820282/60 "2018-08-27T20:08:46Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Someone who really wants to make a difference for the world will find a way to get into a position to really do so. Someone with the personal credibility and leadership stature that McCain had could have done so. But he didn’t. The fact that, as you say, his legacy will be trivial is far more damning to him than it would be to most politicians. Name the Senators who have “lasting legacies” from their Senate careers. Being a Senator is very prestigious while you are in office, but it doesn’t lend itself to legacy. McCain ran for president several times. He didn’t win. So yeah, you can say he never did anything to really make a difference, but it’s not like he didn’t try to “get into a position to really do so”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-is-dead-lets-discuss-his-legacy/820282.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-is-dead-lets-discuss-his-legacy/820282.md?page=4)