# John McCain is President... Obama lost... How different does America look right now? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 30, 2012, 8:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-is-president-obama-lost-how-different-does-america-look-right-now/623527 "2012-05-30T08:44:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![2sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/e47774/32.png) [@2sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2sense)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2012, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-is-president-obama-lost-how-different-does-america-look-right-now/623527/21 "2012-05-30T19:00:48Z")
I really think the major differences would be no health care reform and no Detroit bailout so GM is gone with Ford facing an uncertain future with no neighboring auto companies able to share the burden of maintaining the associated infrastructure. Maybe more stimulus in terms of revenue lost but not much more in results since it would be tilted more heavily toward the less efficient tax cuts. Politically the Democrats wouldn’t have to share the responsibility for the Wall Street bailouts and would now hold the House and Senate with McCain a sitting duck in November. Next year when the Dems have complete control they still compromise with themselves and end up with the half-assed health care reform with no public option. We end up about where we are now (except Detroit is worse) and maybe the Dems repeal DOMA or something to give social liberals something to distract them from the reality that they are supporting the other corporate stooge party. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2012, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-is-president-obama-lost-how-different-does-america-look-right-now/623527/22 "2012-05-30T19:15:19Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > The deficit and the national debt would be lower. You base this belief on what? The decrease of the deficit and national debt that occurred under the last three Republican administrations? ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2012, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-is-president-obama-lost-how-different-does-america-look-right-now/623527/23 "2012-05-30T19:35:15Z")
A doper would pose the question “What if Obama won instead of McCain?” Most responses claim: Unemployment would be at 3-4%. We would have UHC by 2012. Massive bailouts would have the economy and housing market at pre-2008 levels. We would be out of Iraq and Afghanistan by 2012. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2012, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-is-president-obama-lost-how-different-does-america-look-right-now/623527/24 "2012-05-30T19:38:43Z")
Not a lot of difference. Obama is basically a Reagan Republican. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2012, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-is-president-obama-lost-how-different-does-america-look-right-now/623527/25 "2012-05-30T19:40:42Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > A doper would pose the question “What if Obama won instead of McCain?” Most responses claim: > Unemployment would be at 3-4%. > We would have UHC by 2012. > Massive bailouts would have the economy and housing market at pre-2008 levels. > We would be out of Iraq and Afghanistan by 2012. Imaginary responses to an imaginary situation. Who would imagine it? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2012, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-is-president-obama-lost-how-different-does-america-look-right-now/623527/26 "2012-05-30T19:46:54Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > Iran would have had an internal revolution, with the mullahs being replaced by a western-style democratic government. Wait, **what?!** [They already **tried** that.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009%E2%80%932010_Iranian_election_protests) How would a McCain Admin have made any difference?! We had this discussion when it was going on; any foreign intervention would only have had a rally-'round-the-flag effect and shored up the government. ---
**Author:** ![dngnb8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/977dab/32.png) [@dngnb8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dngnb8)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2012, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-is-president-obama-lost-how-different-does-america-look-right-now/623527/27 "2012-05-30T19:47:39Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > The deficit and the national debt would be lower. I disagree. The debt would be spent on military. McCain is a strong supporter of military. > [@](#): > > Overall, the economy would be in roughly the same shape, but unemployment would have spiked higher before ending up more or less where it is now. I believe unemployment would have tracked similarly. However, McCain would be gungho in the Middle East, and support Syrian involvement. This would open a lot of opportunity for unemployed to enlist. They would do so because they need benefits and income. > [@](#): > > ObL would be just as dead, but Dopers would be swearing up and down that it made no difference to the war on terror. > > Come to think of it, most of the posts on the SDMB in GD and the Pit would have said pretty much the opposite of whatever they said. > > Regards, > Shodan This board is heavily liberal. The board I moderate is heavily conservative. It is interesting to see the dynamics. Being a middle of the road kind of guy, I enjoy seeing the different perspectives. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2012, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-is-president-obama-lost-how-different-does-america-look-right-now/623527/28 "2012-05-31T04:32:22Z")
> [@dngnb8](#): > > I believe unemployment would have tracked similarly. However, McCain would be gungho in the Middle East, and support Syrian involvement. This would open a lot of opportunity for unemployed to enlist. They would do so because they need benefits and income. Active military service is not counted as “employed” by the U.S. Department of Labor. Soldiers (or sailors, marines, etc) are excluded from the statistics entirely. If you recruit someone you take them off the “unemployed” side of the ledger (as long as they were classified as unemployed before) but you don’t add them to the “employed” side. Any realistic expansion of the armed services would have very little noticeable effect on unemployment, as is quite obvious if one just examines the math. At last report the unemployment rate was 8.1%, which comprises 12.5 million Americans out of work who want to work. Realistically, even a major expansion of the armed services would be, what, 300,000 people? The Army can only absorb so many people at once, after all. Even if we were to assume every one of those 300,000 people was unemployment before signing up - which of course absolutely would not be the case - you’d be reducing the unemployed to 12.2 million instead of 12.5 and changing the official number of people employed by zero. So the unemployment rate would go from 8.1% to… about 8.1%. Woooo. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2012, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-is-president-obama-lost-how-different-does-america-look-right-now/623527/29 "2012-05-31T15:48:59Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > You base this belief on what? The decrease of the deficit and national debt that occurred under the last three Republican administrations? No, the increase of the deficit and national debt that occurred under the current Democratic one. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2012, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-is-president-obama-lost-how-different-does-america-look-right-now/623527/30 "2012-05-31T16:00:30Z")
I, for one, would not be here having drowned in my tears at the prospect of Palin with power. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2012, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-is-president-obama-lost-how-different-does-america-look-right-now/623527/31 "2012-05-31T16:22:12Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > No, the increase of the deficit and national debt that occurred under the current Democratic one. Then wouldn’t the increase of the deficit and national debt that occurred under the previous three Republican administrations also be evidence? ---
**Author:** ![dngnb8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/977dab/32.png) [@dngnb8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dngnb8)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2012, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-is-president-obama-lost-how-different-does-america-look-right-now/623527/32 "2012-05-31T16:43:40Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Active military service is not counted as “employed” by the U.S. Department of Labor. Soldiers (or sailors, marines, etc) are excluded from the statistics entirely. If you recruit someone you take them off the “unemployed” side of the ledger (as long as they were classified as unemployed before) but you don’t add them to the “employed” side. > > Any realistic expansion of the armed services would have very little noticeable effect on unemployment, as is quite obvious if one just examines the math. At last report the unemployment rate was 8.1%, which comprises 12.5 million Americans out of work who want to work. Realistically, even a major expansion of the armed services would be, what, 300,000 people? The Army can only absorb so many people at once, after all. Even if we were to assume every one of those 300,000 people was unemployment before signing up - which of course absolutely would not be the case - you’d be reducing the unemployed to 12.2 million instead of 12.5 and changing the official number of people employed by zero. So the unemployment rate would go from 8.1% to… about 8.1%. > > Woooo. What would show is Unemployment Claims would drop. And, as I said before, people would have income and health care. This would slow the foreclosures, and it would have provided a healthier banking industry. As I said, I do believe unemployment would track about the same. For example. If I got laid off, I could not enlist. Im 4F. However, my children could (my DD25 served in Iraq). If, as I premised, McCain would have taken a more military approach, the need for more troops would have been a key. I could easily see McCain sweetening the deal for people to join. So while DOL stats would remained pretty much consistent, the number of people making claims on unemployment would drop ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2012, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-is-president-obama-lost-how-different-does-america-look-right-now/623527/33 "2012-05-31T16:47:28Z")
We would feel smarter as a nation because we wouldn’t have to hear from ‘birthers’ all the damn time. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2012, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-is-president-obama-lost-how-different-does-america-look-right-now/623527/34 "2012-05-31T16:59:26Z")
> [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > We would feel smarter as a nation because we wouldn’t have to hear from ‘birthers’ all the damn time. Did you miss the part of the Republican convention when they nominated some goofy chick named “Sarah Palin” to be VP? You think she’d be _quieter_? The horror … the horror … ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2012, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-is-president-obama-lost-how-different-does-america-look-right-now/623527/35 "2012-05-31T17:00:21Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Then wouldn’t the increase of the deficit and national debt that occurred under the previous three Republican administrations also be evidence? Sure, as long as you recognize that [Obama increased the national debt more in three years than Bush did in eight](http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-57400369-503544/national-debt-has-increased-more-under-obama-than-under-bush/). So, assuming McCain did the same as previous Republican administrations, instead of the current Democratic one, the deficit and the national debt would not be as high as they are now. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2012, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-is-president-obama-lost-how-different-does-america-look-right-now/623527/36 "2012-05-31T17:19:07Z")
The country would coast on its own as McCain spent half his time trying to shoo Palin out of his chair in the Oval Office and the other half interviewing new food tasters. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2012, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-is-president-obama-lost-how-different-does-america-look-right-now/623527/37 "2012-05-31T17:36:00Z")
The vice-president’s “gaffes” would be far more entertaining. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2012, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-is-president-obama-lost-how-different-does-america-look-right-now/623527/38 "2012-05-31T17:51:30Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Sure, as long as you recognize that [Obama increased the national debt more in three years than Bush did in eight](http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-57400369-503544/national-debt-has-increased-more-under-obama-than-under-bush/). So, assuming McCain did the same as previous Republican administrations, instead of the current Democratic one, the deficit and the national debt would not be as high as they are now. Still seems implausible. It’s like looking at the historical record of Democratic and Republican Presidents and concluding that if McCain had been elected he would have raised taxes. It’s not impossible but it goes against history. And by the same token, if you go back through the last forty years Republican Presidents historically have increased the deficit more often than Democratic Presidents. So based on history, we should assume McCain would have increased the deficit and national debt more than Obama has done. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2012, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-is-president-obama-lost-how-different-does-america-look-right-now/623527/39 "2012-05-31T18:51:02Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > So based on history, we should assume McCain would have increased the deficit and national debt more than Obama has done. No, the amount by which Obama has increased the national debt and deficit is unprecedented. There is no reason to assume McCain would borrow and spend at nearly the levels Obama is doing. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2012, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-is-president-obama-lost-how-different-does-america-look-right-now/623527/40 "2012-05-31T19:47:34Z")
> [@glee](#): > > Domestically you’d have: > > - tax cuts for the rich > - Creationism taught in schools > - shoot-to-kill on the Mexican border > > Internationally you’d get > > - another Iraq somewhere (wherever there’s oil) > - your allies wondering who comes next after Bush and Palin :smack: Bullshit…no that’s inadequate… BULLSHIT. Simply put first of all McCain himself is not a creationist and Courts won’t allow it (it didn’t happen under Bush) and McCain is sympathetic to illegal immigrants. Your ideas are even more laughable than **ralph124c’s**. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-is-president-obama-lost-how-different-does-america-look-right-now/623527.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-is-president-obama-lost-how-different-does-america-look-right-now/623527.md?page=3)