# John McCain is President... Obama lost... How different does America look right now? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 30, 2012, 8:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-is-president-obama-lost-how-different-does-america-look-right-now/623527 "2012-05-30T08:44:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2012, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-is-president-obama-lost-how-different-does-america-look-right-now/623527/61 "2012-06-02T04:56:59Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Well, the fact is that it isn’t as far afield as ralph’s comments. McCain would have tried to cut taxes and he would have gotten us into TWO more wars, Libya and Syria. ralph’s baseless prediction of 5% unemploment, similar growth, and a peaceful revolution in Iran aren’t even on the same planet. > > I agree that the creationism and the border thing are far fetched, but just because someone is criticizing a Republican does not make their points more ludicrous than the strange things that your fellow conservative (that is, ralph124) occasionally dreams up. I don’t see how McCain would have done much differently on Libya other than maybe intervening a few months earlier-I don’t see him calling for boots on the ground or an occupation. Similarly with Syria, Senator McCain’s been calling for arming the rebels and that sort of stuff not sending in the Marines. ---
**Author:** ![Monocracy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monocracy/32/4493_2.png) [@Monocracy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monocracy)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2012, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-is-president-obama-lost-how-different-does-america-look-right-now/623527/62 "2012-06-02T15:39:07Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > So one of you is right in absolute numbers and the other is right in percentages. Can we agree on that? No. According to that cite, Bush increased spending by $700 billion in his second term, the same as Obama did in four years. The Republican argument is that Obama ballooned the defecit because of massive spending. But that doesn’t work out, even when you look at the absolute numbers. I think looking at the budget in terms of percentages is a better way than absolute numbers. Almost every president increases the spending of their predecessor, and if you look at historical figures, their is a clear trend of increased spending over time. This is due to an increasing population, a growing economy, and inflation. I think it’s absurd to think that absolute numbers hold much meaning in this context. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-is-president-obama-lost-how-different-does-america-look-right-now/623527/63 "2012-06-03T00:29:21Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Assuming he wants to avoid the next Great Depression, instead of kicking it off and making it as bad as possible. The Republicans are heavily infested with “Starve the Beast” lunatics who’d love to do that, and with rich people who see the advantages to being the only ones with money. To be fair, I don’t think that’s McCain. So what would probably happen is that the party would split between conservatives (“moderates” or “pragmatists”) and radicals (“conservatives”): McCain and some of the GOP would be trying to fix things if only so that the party looks competent, while others would be trying to make them worse for either ideological or diabolical reasons. With Obama vs. the GOP we got a dangerous confluence of interests between Starve the Beast ideology and partisan politics. Those interests would be split with a McCain presidency. (Granted, this is not an argument for having elected McCain so much as one for not giving the right wing a congressional majority in 2010.) ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-is-president-obama-lost-how-different-does-america-look-right-now/623527/64 "2012-06-03T01:23:35Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > I don’t see how McCain would have done much differently on Libya other than maybe intervening a few months earlier-I don’t see him calling for boots on the ground or an occupation. Similarly with Syria, Senator McCain’s been calling for arming the rebels and that sort of stuff not sending in the Marines. Keep in mind that Republicans are only jumping on the bandwagon now that Obama’s Libya policy is too obvious a success to deny. When he was actually initiating it, conservatives were adamantly opposed to any American involvement in Libya. So what would have been different under a McCain administration? 1. McCain would have gone along with the conservatives in his party and not gotten involved in Libya. 2. McCain would have broken with his own party and sided with the Democrats. 3. The conservatives wouldn’t have opposed American involvement in Libya if McCain was President instead of Obama. 4. The issue never would have come up. Under a McCain administration there wouldn’t have been any “Arab spring” movement. I’m curious to see a conservative spins this. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-is-president-obama-lost-how-different-does-america-look-right-now/623527/65 "2012-06-03T01:32:05Z")
> [@dtrobson099](#): > > One thing we can be sure of, if any “liberal” justices had resigned from the Supreme Court (it is more likely that they would have stuck it out), McCain would have pushed the balance further to the right. More likely than that, a few of the older conservative justices would have taken a step down to be replaced by younger versions. I wouldn’t see that happening. Roberts, Alito, and Thomas are 57, 62, and 63 - they’ve still got plenty of years ahead of them. The oldest conservative on the court is Scalia, who’s 76. But let’s face facts. There’s no way in hell anyone could persuade Antonin Scalia to step aside for somebody else. They’re going to have a tough time convincing him to retire when he dies. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-is-president-obama-lost-how-different-does-america-look-right-now/623527/66 "2012-06-03T01:59:02Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Keep in mind that Republicans are only jumping on the bandwagon now that Obama’s Libya policy is too obvious a success to deny. When he was actually initiating it, conservatives were adamantly opposed to any American involvement in Libya. > > So what would have been different under a McCain administration? > > 1. McCain would have gone along with the conservatives in his party and not gotten involved in Libya. > 2. McCain would have broken with his own party and sided with the Democrats. > 3. The conservatives wouldn’t have opposed American involvement in Libya if McCain was President instead of Obama. > 4. The issue never would have come up. Under a McCain administration there wouldn’t have been any “Arab spring” movement. > > I’m curious to see a conservative spins this. Republicans are (and were) of two minds on the Arab Spring revolts-the more moderate and “interventionist” Republicans (like MCCain wanted to be more aggressive in Libya and now Syria but the Tea Partiers and the libertarians adamantly opposed all intervention. I think it’d be a mix of 2 and 3 (less conservatives would oppose it but probably more liberals would be opposed to it) or 4 not because of McCain being President but due to indirect causes resulting from him being elected. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 10:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-is-president-obama-lost-how-different-does-america-look-right-now/623527/67 "2012-06-03T10:16:42Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > 1. The issue never would have come up. Under a McCain administration there wouldn’t have been any “Arab spring” movement. Is this even an option? I assume that McCain might have supported Mubarak more strongly and perhaps would have stayed out of Libya, resulting in diferent outcomes, but I can’t see the Arab Spring not happening at all. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-is-president-obama-lost-how-different-does-america-look-right-now/623527/68 "2012-06-03T18:47:15Z")
Well one thing’s for damn sure, if McCain were elected the Feds wouldn’t be trying to curb the highly questionable efforts the Republicans are making at voter suppression in the various states. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-is-president-obama-lost-how-different-does-america-look-right-now/623527/69 "2012-06-03T20:13:04Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Is this even an option? I assume that McCain might have supported Mubarak more strongly and perhaps would have stayed out of Libya, resulting in diferent outcomes, but I can’t see the Arab Spring not happening at all. Butterfly effect and all that. It’s hard to prove something would have been inevitable if history had changed. As an example, let’s say McCain had been more committed to maintaining a larger American military presence in the Middle East than Obama was. And let’s say that regimes in the Middle East used this larger American military presence as a rallying point, feeding their people propaganda that all Muslims had to stick together against foreign oppressors. As a result, popular opposition was muted and the existing regimes in Tunisia, Egypt, Libya, and Yemen all remained in power. ---
**Author:** ![Frostillicus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Frostillicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frostillicus)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2012, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-is-president-obama-lost-how-different-does-america-look-right-now/623527/70 "2012-06-04T15:47:56Z")
Since over half of President McCain’s term would be over, we would have a new Vice President by now. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 10:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-is-president-obama-lost-how-different-does-america-look-right-now/623527/71 "2012-06-05T10:17:13Z")
> [@Frostillicus](#): > > Since over half of President McCain’s term would be over, we would have a new Vice President by now. 🙂 For a second, I read that as McCain dying halfway through, and Palin becoming president and thus having a VP fill in. And that wasn’t a 🙂 worthy comment. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-is-president-obama-lost-how-different-does-america-look-right-now/623527/72 "2012-06-05T13:09:58Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > For a second, I read that as McCain dying halfway through, and Palin becoming president and thus having a VP fill in. And that wasn’t a 🙂 worthy comment. Well, Obama seems to have aged a lot more than four years since taking office . . . It is possible McCain would not even have survived on the job this long. ---
**Author:** ![Mehitabel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mehitabel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mehitabel)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-is-president-obama-lost-how-different-does-america-look-right-now/623527/73 "2012-06-05T18:02:30Z")
> [@Frostillicus](#): > > Since over half of President McCain’s term would be over, we would have a new Vice President by now. 🙂 Best bumper sticker I saw last year during her flirting-with-running phase: PALIN IN 2012-2014 1/2! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-is-president-obama-lost-how-different-does-america-look-right-now/623527.md?page=3)