# John McCain says he's not a Maverick, never was one **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 5, 2010, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-says-hes-not-a-maverick-never-was-one/535072 "2010-04-05T20:01:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2010, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-says-hes-not-a-maverick-never-was-one/535072/41 "2010-04-06T01:24:34Z")
This reminds of that time Bush said we never been stay the course, George. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2010, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-says-hes-not-a-maverick-never-was-one/535072/42 "2010-04-06T02:00:13Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > So the first rule of Maverick club is… > > Anyway since the politics of this are obvious, the inevitable question is whether he ever specifically called himself a maverick. Wikipedia says he often referred to himself that way but none of the cites show him using the word to describe himself, instead they mention how often it was used to describe him. If you want an extra nail for his coffin, and I certainly do, there’s the title of the second volume of McCain’s autobiography: [Worth the Fighting For: The Education of an American Maverick, and the Heroes Who Inspired Him](http://www.amazon.com/Worth-Fighting-Education-American-Maverick/dp/081296974X) ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2010, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-says-hes-not-a-maverick-never-was-one/535072/43 "2010-04-06T04:01:08Z")
I almost want to say that his legacy might have been better served by being soberly critical, in a Churchillian sort of vein, of what his party has become. Then, when the Tea Party antics blow themselves out in a few years, and the GOP is forced to become more moderate, he’d be repositioned to make a nifty sort of political comeback. But the Repos currently in office are so deathly afraid of both their base (what passes for it nowadays) and right-wing radio/TV blowhards that not a single one wants to be the first to call the bluffs of Limbaugh et al. So now he’ll be remembered, if he is at all, as a sad pathetic sellout. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2010, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-says-hes-not-a-maverick-never-was-one/535072/44 "2010-04-06T04:25:49Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > I almost want to say that his legacy might have been better served by being soberly critical, in a Churchillian sort of vein, of what his party has become. Then, when the Tea Party antics blow themselves out in a few years, and the GOP is forced to become more moderate, he’d be repositioned to make a nifty sort of political comeback. I’m not sure he could wait that long, to be honest. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2010, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-says-hes-not-a-maverick-never-was-one/535072/45 "2010-04-06T05:12:14Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > I’m not sure he could wait that long, to be honest. Yeah, I don’t think he has time to be rehabilitated and stage a comeback. But he could have ended his career more like Goldwater, who rememined true to his beliefs and is now revered by conservative intellectuals. I dunno, is Goldwater the American Churchill? Anyway, now McCain’s legacy is going to be Sarah Palin. Which isn’t too bad either – almost like being remembered as the inventor of the “knock-knock” joke. Well, that is unless she actually gets elected. THAT would be the worst possible legacy. ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2010, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-says-hes-not-a-maverick-never-was-one/535072/46 "2010-04-06T05:27:16Z")
If he gets the nomination, will he turn all mavericky again? ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2010, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-says-hes-not-a-maverick-never-was-one/535072/47 "2010-04-06T06:03:28Z")
If he loses the primary maybe the GOP will lose the general in 2010. That’d be nice. Or maybe instead we will get another wingnut. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2010, 7:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-says-hes-not-a-maverick-never-was-one/535072/48 "2010-04-06T07:18:58Z")
McCain is rebirthing himself as a wingnut. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2010, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-says-hes-not-a-maverick-never-was-one/535072/49 "2010-04-06T07:24:11Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > McCain is rebirthing himself as a wingnut. Making me a “re-birther” ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2010, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-says-hes-not-a-maverick-never-was-one/535072/50 "2010-04-06T11:18:54Z")
> [@AHunter3](#): > > Isn’t a maverick a freaking COW, anyway? No, it’s the cow’s running mate. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2010, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-says-hes-not-a-maverick-never-was-one/535072/51 "2010-04-06T11:36:00Z")
Nonono, y’all misunderstand, he’s saying he isn’t Maverick. No “a”. He never buzzed no tower, and he didn’t fuck a young Kelly McGillis to the maudlin bars of _Take My Breath Away_. That was Tom Cruise, not him. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2010, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-says-hes-not-a-maverick-never-was-one/535072/52 "2010-04-06T11:58:24Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > You guys don’t get it, a true Maverick would never admit to being a Maverick. So…he’s the Messiah? ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2010, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-says-hes-not-a-maverick-never-was-one/535072/53 "2010-04-06T12:13:13Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > If he loses the primary maybe the GOP will lose the general in 2010. That’d be nice. Or maybe instead we will get another wingnut. You’ll get another wingnut. [J.D Hayworth](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._D._Hayworth) ---
**Author:** ![campp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@campp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/campp)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2010, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-says-hes-not-a-maverick-never-was-one/535072/54 "2010-04-06T12:34:23Z")
Between McCain and Hayworth, I’d actually rather keep McCain! I’m surprised Hayworth can spell his own name. ---
**Author:** ![Llama\_Llogophile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@Llama\_Llogophile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Llama_Llogophile)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2010, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-says-hes-not-a-maverick-never-was-one/535072/55 "2010-04-06T13:00:11Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > So…he’s the Messiah? He’s NOT the messiah - he’s a very naughty boy! ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2010, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-says-hes-not-a-maverick-never-was-one/535072/56 "2010-04-06T13:44:45Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > You guys don’t get it, a true Maverick would never admit to being a Maverick. First rule of being a Maverick is you don’t talk about being a Maverick. McCain could have retired an elder statesman. I guess after what he did in the last election, that’s no longer an option. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2010, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-says-hes-not-a-maverick-never-was-one/535072/57 "2010-04-06T14:08:20Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > McCain could have retired an elder statesman. I guess after what he did in the last election, that’s no longer an option. Becoming the first sitting senator to streak a [Sun Devils game](http://ev10.evenue.net/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/SEGetEventInfo?ticketCode=GS%3AASU%3AFB10%3AFS%3A&linkID=asu&shopperContext=&caller=&appCode=) is still an option for him. He could even add to the excitement by convincing Palin to run along with him, again! ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2010, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-says-hes-not-a-maverick-never-was-one/535072/58 "2010-04-06T15:09:43Z")
> [@Blalron](#): > > For all the bad things that can be said about simplly lying, at least it promotes a world view that is consistent with itself. When you can’t even keep your own story straight, you’ve sunken to a new low. \*What bullshit essentially misrepresents is neither the state of affairs to which it refers nor the beliefs of the speaker concerning that state of affairs. Those are what lies misrepresent, by virtue of being false. […] The bullshitter may not deceive us, or even intend to do so, either about the facts or about what he takes the facts to be. What he does necessarily attempt to deceive us about is his enterprise. His only indispensably distinctive characteristic is that in a certain way he misrepresents what he is up to. That is the crux of the distinction between him and the liar. Both he and the liar represent themselves falsely as endeavoring to communicate the truth. The success of each depends upon deceiving us about that. But the fact about himself that the liar hides is that he is attempting to lead us away from a correct apprehension of reality; we are not to know that he wants us to believe something he supposes to be false. The fact about himself that the bullshitter hides, on the other hand, is that the truth-values of his statements are of no central interest to him; what we are not to understand is that his intention is neither to report the truth nor to conceal it. […] Someone who lies and someone who tells the truth are playing on opposite sides, so to speak, in the same game. Each responds to the facts as he understands them, although the response of the one is guided by the authority of the truth, while the response of the other defies that authority and refuses to meet its demands. The bullshitter ignores these demands altogether. He does not reject the authority of the truth, as the liar does, and oppose himself to it. He pays no attention to it at all. By virtue of this, bullshit is a greater enemy of the truth than lies are. - Harry G. Frankfurt, On Bullshit\* ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2010, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-says-hes-not-a-maverick-never-was-one/535072/59 "2010-04-06T17:58:13Z")
Gore Vidal wrote a couple of essays on the topic of “When D.C. Met Hollywood” in which he compared the personalities and the allure of both politics and show biz (the narcissism, the “image is everything”, the “we are more the real people than the real people are the real people” attitudes, the “take that camera away and I’ll kill you!” terror, etc.). Building on that, McCain’s greatest nightmare must be being Norma Desmond. Just as some actors who have had their day in the sun will do everything from low budget _Monsters vs. Scared Girls with Big Titties_ movies to commercials for a Peoria chiropractic clinic to stay in front of the cameras- sometimes even if they don’t need the money- John McCain, 73 and rich and capable of earning gazillions as a speaker or commentator- refuses to say goodnight. To me this former P.o.W. and torture victim sponsoring the [Unprivileged Enemy Belligerent](http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c111:s3081:)bill though is the equivalent of a former Oscar winner doing particularly low budget hardcore prison rape porn. Does he even pretend to have a soul anymore? Is Trigg Palin one of his horcruxes? You couldn’t make this crap up. > [@](#): > > [John McCain](http://mccain.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=PressOffice.FloorStatements&ContentRecord_id=2AF60F3A-05DC-CDF6-7DC9-6501A995C17C) > > A key provision of this bill is that it would prohibit a suspected enemy belligerent from being provided with a Miranda warning and being told he has a right to a lawyer and a right to refuse to cooperate. I believe that an overwhelming majority of Americans agree that when we capture a terrorist who is suspected of carrying out or planning an attack intended to kill hundreds if not thousands of innocent civilians, our focus must be on gaining all the information possible to prevent that attack or any that may follow from occurring. Under these circumstances, actionable intelligence must be our highest priority and criminal prosecution must be secondary. > > Additionally, the legislation would authorize detention of enemy belligerents without criminal charges for the duration of the hostilities consistent with standards under the law of war which have been recognized by the Supreme Court. Importantly, if a decision is made to hold a criminal trial after the necessary intelligence information is obtained, the bill mandates trial by military commission where we are best able to protect U.S. national security interests, including sensitive classified sources and methods, as well as the place and the people involved in the trial itself. No, you’re not a maverick… you’re a revenge demon. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2010, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-says-hes-not-a-maverick-never-was-one/535072/60 "2010-04-06T20:10:13Z")
Meh. It’s not that big a deal - it’s not like we’re Mirandizing terrorism suspects now. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-says-hes-not-a-maverick-never-was-one/535072.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccain-says-hes-not-a-maverick-never-was-one/535072.md?page=4)