# John McCain's confusion -- is he really mentally fit? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 13, 2008, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccains-confusion-is-he-really-mentally-fit/452798 "2008-06-13T13:07:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2008, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccains-confusion-is-he-really-mentally-fit/452798/41 "2008-06-13T16:29:26Z")
[QUOTE=Saint Cad] I’m a McCain supporter and even I worry about his age. It’s amazing that my John McCain impersonation is eerily similar to my angry old man impersonation. I have listened to him do Q and A that he has done on talkradio and I don’t really hear any senility or Alzheimers there. I think he misspeaks like we all do and he may not know the difference between Shiite and Sunni, but that is what his advisors are for. [/QUOTE] Keep in mind, Reagan didn’t really start to show signs of Alzheimers until his 2nd campaign. (His “Now I’m all confused” comment at a debate-that was pretty disturbing.) ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2008, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccains-confusion-is-he-really-mentally-fit/452798/42 "2008-06-13T16:42:31Z")
[ol] [li]McCain’s team is trying to make any comments about his being confused about facts into “ageist” digs that should be as off limits as racist or sexist comments. They play this card as often as they can. But not every observation that he doesn’t know his stuff is a dig about his age. Young people have been pilloried over their lack of knowledge as well. Bush of course, and famously an older VP candidate teased a younger one about their lack of intellectual chops. (Quayle any one?)[/li][li]McCain’s age _is_ a meaningful issue and is not in the same realm as race or gender. Reagan neutralized concerns with his VP choice of Bush Sr. but still we must not forget did develop Alzheimer’s during his tenure. He coasted on near muscle memory of acting skills that kept him delivering his material well, but we did indeed have a man with severe dementia in charge of our country and with his finger on the button. Pilots have a mandatory retirement age of 65 but we should let someone of any age pilot our country for the next four years without even considering whether or not their age may be a factor?[/li][/ol] ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2008, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccains-confusion-is-he-really-mentally-fit/452798/43 "2008-06-13T16:56:52Z")
[QUOTE=Saint Cad] I think he misspeaks like we all do and he may not know the difference between Shiite and Sunni, but that is what his advisors are for. [/QUOTE] Actually, that’s what books and newspapers are for. But if McCain uses his advisors in the manner you suggest, I sure hope he consults them when that 3:00 AM phone call comes in. He could bomb the wrong place. ETA: I would also say that McCain is acting in a sleezy and underhanded manner. For example, he keeps prodding Obama publicly to join him in his town hall meetings, giving the appearance that Obama is avoiding him when he knows full well that the two staffs are meeting together working out details. For me, that only means he has a liar’s heart just like George Bush. Whether this kind of sleeze is due to his overall confusion is unclear. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2008, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccains-confusion-is-he-really-mentally-fit/452798/44 "2008-06-13T17:03:09Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] What he’s supposed to do is think for himself and do what he thinks is right, regardless. That’s what republican (small r) government is supposed to be about. Direct democracy is mob rule. [/QUOTE] You can’t be called “representing” your people if you vote contrary to their wishes. Bush started the war (IMO) because he thought it was the right thing to do. Should he have started it even if Congress (and the people they represent) said “No”? (I don’t think he would have had the cajones, myself.) ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2008, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccains-confusion-is-he-really-mentally-fit/452798/45 "2008-06-13T17:03:48Z")
What bothers me about McCain is the repeated times he has outright denied saying or doing something that he clearly did do (or vice versa): He claimed he voted for every Katrina Investigations when he voted against them twice. He denied saying the media was being unfair to Hillary when he had said it just a few days before. He denied ever saying he wasn’t any good at economics. What I think is happening is that McCain comes from an old political paradigm when things you said tended to get lost in the ether. But now, anything you say can be brought up and you will be held accountable. So before you can jjust say, “I never said that” and it would probably be dropped. Not any more. So I don’t htink he is senile, I think he is out of touch. One thing I wil defend McCain on, his awkward speaking style. Due to the torture he recieved in Vietnam it is not easy for McCain to turn his head, so he will frequently turn his whole body or just look straight on. I know it seems creepy and/or awkward to some but maybe he should be given some slack. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2008, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccains-confusion-is-he-really-mentally-fit/452798/46 "2008-06-13T17:07:18Z")
[QUOTE=Saint Cad] he may not know the difference between Shiite and Sunni, but that is what his advisors are for. [/QUOTE] The argument that a deficient president can make up for his problems by surrounding himself with skilled advisors seems kind of weak after eight years of Bush: > [@](#): > > [2002](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=2723803&highlight=bush+advisors+surrounds#post2723803) > You think Bush surrounds himself with people who will rubber-stamp his ideas? Wrong. Bush likes to surround himself with OPPOSING ideas. He likes to have advisors from both ends of the debate, with himself as referee. He feels that that’s the best way to come to a good decision. Probably something he learned in MBA school. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2008, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccains-confusion-is-he-really-mentally-fit/452798/47 "2008-06-13T17:14:18Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] About Christianity and the Constitution (also about the Constitution and guns). [/QUOTE] Educate me, please, on his confusion in these areas. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2008, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccains-confusion-is-he-really-mentally-fit/452798/48 "2008-06-13T17:30:28Z")
Not to say the two arguments are equivalent, but I find it interesting that some people in [this Obama thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=471523) point out that a lot of Obama’s lack of experience can be made up by advisors. As an example: > [@](#): > > Also, is it not fair to say much of running a successful government has to do with the cabinet and other advisors a president surrounds themselves with? Certainly the president does not work in a vacuum. Likewise no one person will ever be expert in all areas necessary to make the myriad decisions required as president. They may be expert in one area and lack in another. They simply must have the aid of a small army of experts in each area to advise them. yet some (not necessarily the same people) are railing against McCain for relying heavily on advisors. No real point here, just an interesting observation. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2008, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccains-confusion-is-he-really-mentally-fit/452798/49 "2008-06-13T19:14:30Z")
[QUOTE=Saint Cad] yet some… [/QUOTE] Every president needs experts around him. What makes the argument that experts will make a president behave competently a weak one is that it assumes that the president is competent enough to choose such experts, and also that once he has chosen his experts, he will listen to them. Those conditions are not always met. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2008, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccains-confusion-is-he-really-mentally-fit/452798/50 "2008-06-13T19:43:51Z")
[QUOTE=Saint Cad] Not to say the two arguments are equivalent, but I find it interesting that some people in [this Obama thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=471523) point out that a lot of Obama’s lack of experience can be made up by advisors. …yet some (not necessarily the same people) are railing against McCain for relying heavily on advisors. No real point here, just an interesting observation. [/QUOTE] I’d say there is a difference between advisors and handlers. Every president has advisors…lots of them and that is totally normal. We are free to debate the quality of those advisors and how much a president listens to them (too much or too little) but having them is no big deal. Then there are the handlers. The ones who need to constantly whisper in the president’s ear just to keep him on track and from saying something stupid (I still wonder about that infamous bump under Bush’s jacket during one of the debates in 2000 that most suspect was a communications device feeding him answers). ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2008, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccains-confusion-is-he-really-mentally-fit/452798/51 "2008-06-13T20:14:12Z")
[QUOTE=Bricker] Educate me, please, on his confusion in these areas [Christianity and the Constitution (also about the Constitution and guns)]. [/QUOTE] During a political talk in Philadelphia, McCain claimed that Obama had described “bitter” small-town voters as clinging to religion or “the Constitution” – when the second item in Obama’s comment actually was “guns.” But the Arizona senator didn’t stop with a simple word substitution. He added that he will tell these voters that “they have trust and support the Constitution of the United States because they have optimism and hope. … That’s what America’s all about.” [http://www.consortiumnews.com/2008/061108.htmlI](http://www.consortiumnews.com/2008/061108.htmlI) believe Keith Olbermann has a video of it if you want to dig it up. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2008, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccains-confusion-is-he-really-mentally-fit/452798/52 "2008-06-13T20:19:27Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] During a political talk in Philadelphia, McCain claimed that Obama had described “bitter” small-town voters as clinging to religion or “the Constitution” – when the second item in Obama’s comment actually was “guns.” But the Arizona senator didn’t stop with a simple word substitution. He added that he will tell these voters that “they have trust and support the Constitution of the United States because they have optimism and hope. … That’s what America’s all about.” [http://www.consortiumnews.com/2008/061108.htmlI](http://www.consortiumnews.com/2008/061108.htmlI) believe Keith Olbermann has a video of it if you want to dig it up. [/QUOTE] OK. Hadn’t heard that before, but OK. That certainly supports a claim that McCain confused “guns” and “the Constitution.” I’m not seeing anything about his confusing Christianity and the Constitution. And for what it’s worth, a more accurately descriptive claim would be that McCain confused Obama’s _comments_ about guns and the Constitution, as opposed to his confusing the two subjects themselves. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2008, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccains-confusion-is-he-really-mentally-fit/452798/53 "2008-06-13T20:20:13Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Moto] I’m saying you have plenty of reasons to vote against McCain without implying that he is senile. Frankly, I think this is a dishonest argument coming from you at this particular point. [/QUOTE] Honestly, it’s the second biggest reason I’m not voting for him. The first being that he’s running against Barack Obama. When the option was Hillary though, I was giving him a fair thought. He’s simply too old, and it’s not dishonest to think so. We don’t let peopel under 35 run for President, there should be an upper age cap too, we’ll Grandfather Reagan in as the upper cap. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2008, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccains-confusion-is-he-really-mentally-fit/452798/54 "2008-06-13T20:22:15Z")
The very fact that he kept talking about Iran funding Al Qaeda even after he was corrected constantly by the media, and Joe Liebermann is his fucking ear, should say something. It took Zawahiri releasing a video saying, “We hate fucking Iran.”, in order to get him to shut up. ---
**Author:** ![BJMoose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5fc32e/32.png) [@BJMoose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BJMoose)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2008, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccains-confusion-is-he-really-mentally-fit/452798/55 "2008-06-13T20:25:55Z")
If Sen. McCain wants to vote the wishes of his constituants, there’s nothing wrong with that. I think a representative should be open to voting for the “greater good” occasionally, but that is a defensible (if somewhat simple-minded) position. But don’t you think that, if that is indeed his policy, he would have ascertained what his constituents wanted _before_ introducing a bill that they _didn’t_ want? ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2008, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccains-confusion-is-he-really-mentally-fit/452798/56 "2008-06-13T20:30:13Z")
**Mr. Moto** Show us just one example of Obama making the same mistake at least twice more after being corrected on that issue in a high profile manner. Then we’ll talk about comparative gaffes. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2008, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccains-confusion-is-he-really-mentally-fit/452798/57 "2008-06-13T20:47:38Z")
[QUOTE=Bricker] OK. Hadn’t heard that before, but OK. That certainly supports a claim that McCain confused “guns” and “the Constitution.” I’m not seeing anything about his confusing Christianity and the Constitution. And for what it’s worth, a more accurately descriptive claim would be that McCain confused Obama’s _comments_ about guns and the Constitution, as opposed to his confusing the two subjects themselves. [/QUOTE] Not too mention that there is anything wrong with clinging to the Constitution. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2008, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccains-confusion-is-he-really-mentally-fit/452798/58 "2008-06-13T21:00:00Z")
I honestly wish that McCain and Obama, both of whom are exhausted and stressed out and look it, would shake hands, call a truce, and take about 2 or 3 weeks off for a vacation. During that time neither will make speeches, advertise, actively campaign, or even respond to any news stories that don’t absolutely demand immediate attention (i.e. if CNN says McCain or Obama once killed a man in Reno just to watch him die then send a statement but if it’s just same old “Will Mrs. McCain make a better hostess than Mrs. Obama?” stuff let it go). If either breaks this they’ll be seen as a truce breaker. Both guys need to relax, recharge, see some fluff movies and read a John Grisham book, chug some Mezcal margaritas and let their blood pressure lower and get 8 hours of sleep for a few nights. Then, they can come back on July 10 or whenever the truce expires and go to knocking each other’s brains out, now with 29% more vigor and enthusiasm. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2008, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccains-confusion-is-he-really-mentally-fit/452798/59 "2008-06-13T21:00:27Z")
was McCain’s time to be prez (not that he would have been ideal, but he could have been decent). He seemed much younger and energetic then; he was believable in the “principled maverick” role. No longer. He does look tired and worn out; he has sucked off Bush (who in the '00 campaign went all dirty tricks on McCain) so much since then that his credibility is zero. I am uncomfortable with people on my team (i.e., liberals) mocking McCain for superficial things like his scars and whatnot. But he really does not seem in either good mental or physical shape. ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2008, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccains-confusion-is-he-really-mentally-fit/452798/60 "2008-06-13T21:04:48Z")
[QUOTE=Gangster Octopus] What bothers me about McCain is the repeated times he has outright denied saying or doing something that he clearly did do (or vice versa): He claimed he voted for every Katrina Investigations when he voted against them twice. He denied saying the media was being unfair to Hillary when he had said it just a few days before. He denied ever saying he wasn’t any good at economics. What I think is happening is that McCain comes from an old political paradigm when things you said tended to get lost in the ether. But now, anything you say can be brought up and you will be held accountable. So before you can jjust say, “I never said that” and it would probably be dropped. Not any more. So I don’t htink he is senile, I think he is out of touch. One thing I wil defend McCain on, his awkward speaking style. Due to the torture he recieved in Vietnam it is not easy for McCain to turn his head, so he will frequently turn his whole body or just look straight on. I know it seems creepy and/or awkward to some but maybe he should be given some slack. [/QUOTE] Then we’re seeping into Bob Dole territory. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccains-confusion-is-he-really-mentally-fit/452798.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-mccains-confusion-is-he-really-mentally-fit/452798.md?page=4)