John Oliver Nov 9/25 on "felony murder"

[wolfpup]

@griffin1977

@wolfpup

Back to the teen burglars. In civilized countries a homeowner who shoots a burglar would almost certainly be charged with manslaughter due to the use of unnecessarily excessive force, unless he could show that his life was in imminent danger

Note this is not actually the case. The UK and the US (and AFAIK other European countries) have for the most part the same laws regarding self defense in the home. You have the right to use reasonable force to protect yourself or others from harm. The only difference is you are much less likely to have a legally own gun in the UK (and for the most part* self defense is not a valid reason to own a gun)

At risk of violating my own desire to keep the thread on track, that’s most definitely not the only difference. The specification of “reasonable force” and proportionality is a key difference between the laws in the UK and Canada, for example, and the insane “stand your ground” laws in many US states. Emphasis mine in the quote below, which is from here:

The common law defence [in the UK] of self-defence applies where the defendant uses necessary, reasonable and proportionate force to defend themselves or another from imminent attack. It is a complete defence to all non-sexual offences involving the unlawful use of force (anything from battery to murder). Because the defence results in a complete acquittal, the courts have interpreted the defence in a restrictive way so as to avoid acquitting too easily. For example, the courts will not usually acquit the defendant just because he thought the force used was reasonable – whether or not the force used was reasonable will be objectively assessed by the jury and not simply according to what the defendant thought at the time.

Likewise in Canada:

Canadian citizens have a fundamental right to safeguard themselves and their property, and this right must be upheld as long as their defensive actions are reasonable and proportional to the circumstances. However, it is crucial to note that injuring an intruder or using lethal force is only justified when it is the only available option for self-defence against a perceived threat of severe bodily harm or loss of life.

Any actions taken beyond what is deemed reasonable and necessary will not be condoned by the law. In essence, Canadians have the right to use force to protect their homes and themselves, but only to the extent that is reasonable and necessary.

@ParallelLines

@wolfpup

The actual killer, due to perverted “stand your ground” laws in some states, suffered no consequences whatsoever.

I think you ( Dad Joke Warning!) kind of shot yourself in the foot when it comes to saying such laws are off topic. [ you may now boo me for that joke ].

Boo!

Fair enough, but I was appalled by the irony of a homeowner being allowed to kill a child with no consequences while at the same time the other kids involved were all charged with felony murder for what he did! The response that the sheriff gave in the video clip on that show, basically “if you don’t want to get shot and die, don’t break into someone’s house” is just not consistent with a civilized society.

@eschereal

How many of us have merely had the experience of walking into your home to find that it has been rifled through while you were not there? Can you describe what that felt like? Not so much “oh my god, did they take ” but “some assholes were in here going through my stuff.”

I can attest to the depths of awful emotion that in absentia burglary gives breath to – the idea of encountering the burglars in the act must be much worse. You enter my home without permission, that is a major violation, comparable to physical assault, and if you are not running away right now, all bets are off.

I haven’t had that experience, but I can definitely empathize. I totally get it. But you know what’s worse than the feeling of being robbed? The feeling that you’re about to be dead. It appears that in US gun culture, the popular approach to someone pissing you off for any reason, anything from home invasion to cutting you off in traffic, is shooting them.