# John Rawls (political philosopher) dead **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [November 27, 2002, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-rawls-political-philosopher-dead/139053 "2002-11-27T05:59:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![hawthorne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@hawthorne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hawthorne)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2002, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-rawls-political-philosopher-dead/139053/1 "2002-11-27T05:59:07Z")
[John Rawls, 82, U.S. political theorist](http://www.iht.com/articles/78308.html) This very significant figure’s death is worth noting. He brought questions of ethics back to prominance in philosophy and was central to the revival of the notion of the social contract. For myself, the idea of thinking about the appropriateness of social institutions “from behind a veil of ignorance” is an extraordinarily powerful one, even if it turns out that agreement even in that imagined circumstance remains elusive. ---
**Author:** ![js\_africanus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/87869e/32.png) [@js\_africanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/js_africanus)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2002, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-rawls-political-philosopher-dead/139053/2 "2002-11-27T06:33:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by hawthorne \* > \*\*For myself, the idea of thinking about the appropriateness of social institutions “from behind a veil of ignorance” is an extraordinarily powerful one, even if it turns out that agreement even in that imagined circumstance remains elusive. \*\* Agreement will always be elusive since different people have different attitudes toward risk. Nevertheless, the level of discourse would be considerably hightened if people used it as a framework for thinking about many social problems. That will never happen. Even if people learn it, they will never use it. I’ve never read Rawls himself, I’ve only learned about the veil. Have you read him. Particular pieces you’d recommend? ---
**Author:** ![Toffe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e19adc/32.png) [@Toffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toffe)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2002, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-rawls-political-philosopher-dead/139053/3 "2002-11-27T11:23:42Z")
Hey, I just studied him a few weeks ago… terrible writing style, but his revival of the debate on social justice was important, interesting, and highly necessary. I like his ideas on social justice, even though some of the ways used to reach his conclusions (esp. the “veil of ignorance”) are flawed… js\_africanus, “A Theory of Justice” is the book that started it all, and puts out his whole theory in great detail. You might also want to look at his newer work (2001) “Justice as fairness: a restatement”, or some of his articles (those by Quentin Skinner are also very good on this topic. Actually, all articles by Skinner that I’ve read are very good. Good speaker, too.). ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2002, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-rawls-political-philosopher-dead/139053/4 "2002-11-27T12:02:12Z")
Wow. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2002, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-rawls-political-philosopher-dead/139053/5 "2002-11-27T12:09:11Z")
Damn, I can’t just let this go with a simple “wow”. Naturally, I find him infuriating, but I have to respect him for his intellectual honesty. He was even gracious enough to acknowledge that his Original Position idea has both an ethical and a politcal context, which allows you to argue one against the other. A great thinker. A monumental contributor to philosophy. May he rest in peace now that his Veil of Ignorance has been removed. ---
**Author:** ![js\_africanus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/87869e/32.png) [@js\_africanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/js_africanus)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2002, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-rawls-political-philosopher-dead/139053/6 "2002-11-27T15:14:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Toffe \* > **I like his ideas on social justice, even though some of the ways used to reach his conclusions (esp. the “veil of ignorance”) are flawed…** Thanks for the info. Question: How is the veil of ignorance flawed? That’s an honest question, not a veiled (no pun) attack. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2002, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-rawls-political-philosopher-dead/139053/7 "2002-11-27T16:16:19Z")
Its main flaw, in my opinion, is that it considers only the political side of the Original Position and ignores the ethical side. ---
**Author:** ![peepthis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9d8465/32.png) [@peepthis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peepthis)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2002, 8:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-rawls-political-philosopher-dead/139053/8 "2002-11-28T08:43:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Toffe \* > \*\*Hey, I just studied him a few weeks ago… terrible writing style \*\* I disagree re: his writing style. For the density of the material he’s putting across, and relative to other academics in the field (Michael Sandel, I’m looking at you!), he’s relatively accessible. Since someone asked for recommended readings, I’d suggest “Political Liberalism” instead of “A Theory of Justice.” It was published later, and actually _reversed_ much of what TJ laid out. There’s also the quite recent “The Law of Peoples,” which I actually just re-read a couple weeks ago. This was Rawls’ attempt to extend his theory of justice to the international level in his final years – not at all very successfully in my opinion, but still an intriguing (and quite accessible – almost Robert Dahl-esque readability) and brief (~120 pages) book. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2002, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-rawls-political-philosopher-dead/139053/9 "2002-11-28T16:51:08Z")
Here’s a memorial MPSIMS thread which deserves to go in Great Debates. Somehow, I think John Rawls would approve. RIP Mr. Rawls. ---
**Author:** ![js\_africanus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/87869e/32.png) [@js\_africanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/js_africanus)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2002, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-rawls-political-philosopher-dead/139053/10 "2002-11-28T17:13:01Z")
Hi, I can’t print from where I’m currently at, and I won’t have a computer available until Sunday. If the lists die after three unposted days, would someone please put a post on this thread tomorrow or Saturday so that I can print up the suggested readings on Sunday? Thanks very much!! -jsh ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2002, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-rawls-political-philosopher-dead/139053/11 "2002-11-28T17:24:32Z")
**js\_africanus** , as it stands, the threads stay in the database until they’re deliberately expunged. So, Sunday, you can do a search on “Rawls”, a week ago and newer, and find this thread. ---
**Author:** ![lothos2002](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/df788c/32.png) [@lothos2002](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lothos2002)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2002, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-rawls-political-philosopher-dead/139053/12 "2002-11-28T17:50:36Z")
I was sorry to hear about Rawls’s passing. The Theory of Justice was one of the first books on political philosophy I was exposed to and I thought it was an eye opener. Criticisms aside, I think we should agree he was a great thinker and made several important contributions. May he rest in peace.