# John Walker-Taliban Warrior **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 3, 2001, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-walker-taliban-warrior/96643 "2001-12-03T16:44:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2001, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-walker-taliban-warrior/96643/101 "2001-12-05T22:12:32Z")
Not so much faded as over-shadowed. The warriors always get better press. šŸ˜‰ ---
**Author:** ![Asylum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/53a042/32.png) [@Asylum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asylum)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2001, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-walker-taliban-warrior/96643/102 "2001-12-05T22:34:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tranquilis \* > \*\* I think that only one nation still has deallings with the Taliban-as-govā€™t. \*\* [Not anymore.](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A3540-2001Nov22.html) ---
**Author:** ![SuaSponte](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/67e7ee/32.png) [@SuaSponte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuaSponte)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2001, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-walker-taliban-warrior/96643/103 "2001-12-05T23:04:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Hoe \* > I was not aware that the US had declared war on Taliban Afganistan. If they havenā€™t declared war how can you say Johnny boy took up arms against the US. He didnā€™t. America is not at war. It has never been declared. Itā€™s stupid to declare war on terrorism, and think you can automatically attack anyone regardless of national boundaries. > > **America was illegally attacking Afganistan by not declaring war.** This may have already been addressed later in the thread, but I donā€™t care. Iā€™m pissed. **Hoe** , thanks for the brilliant display of ass-talking. Thanks for your erudite legal analysis. Only problem is, you moron, is that you are DEAD ā€¦ FUCKING ā€¦ WRONG. You want legalities? You want U.N. approval? Well, guess what is the internationally- and U.N.-recognized government of Afghanistan? The Northern Alliance. Guess who is our ally in Afghanistan? The Northern Alliance. So, we are not illegally attacking Afghanistan - we are in Afghanistan with the approval of the legally constituted government of that nation, and we are aiding said government to put down a rebellion. Of course we havenā€™t declared war on Afghanistan. We donā€™t have a beef with the Northern Alliance. Go ahead. Look it up. Start with the U.N.'s website. Sua ---
**Author:** ![Hoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e68b1a/32.png) [@Hoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hoe)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2001, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-walker-taliban-warrior/96643/104 "2001-12-06T00:03:01Z")
ok Iā€™ve been scolded by the admin. for abusive language. I apologize. allright then. I am amazed by the hatred displayed by some people on this board. At the same time you people complain about foreign hatred towards you, you show utter and absoulute contempt and loathing for anything not American. I admit that there are some rational people out there and yes sometimes I write silly stupid things. The truth is: If you know what a man has done, what he was thinking while he was doing it, and what he now thinks of what he did, YOU CAN NOT HATE HIM! Think about this before you start suggesting ways of execution for John Walker. If you donā€™t you will be in essence, A MOB. This applies to everyone: Noone does what he does for the reasons he says heā€™s doing it. ---
**Author:** ![Ferrous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Ferrous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferrous)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2001, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-walker-taliban-warrior/96643/105 "2001-12-06T00:14:18Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Hoe_ > \*\*I am amazed by the hatred displayed by some people on this board. At the same time you people complain about foreign hatred towards you, you show utter and absoulute contempt and loathing for anything not American. \*\* Cite, please? > [@](#): > > **I admit that there are some rational people out there and yes sometimes I write silly stupid things.** Youā€™ve finally said something I can agree with. > [@](#): > > **This applies to everyone: Noone does what he does for the reasons he says heā€™s doing it.** Er, excuse me? I say Iā€™m posting this because I think youā€™re talking out of your ass. But according to your theory, I must have some other reason. Iā€™m so confusedā€¦ ---
**Author:** ![Hoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e68b1a/32.png) [@Hoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hoe)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2001, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-walker-taliban-warrior/96643/106 "2001-12-06T00:18:43Z")
Your reason for saying that Ferrous, would be; for you to feel better about yourself. To convice yourself that there are other people more stupid than you. ---
**Author:** ![Ferrous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Ferrous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferrous)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2001, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-walker-taliban-warrior/96643/107 "2001-12-06T00:23:03Z")
Oh, thanks for clearing that up for me. ---
**Author:** ![Hoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e68b1a/32.png) [@Hoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hoe)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2001, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-walker-taliban-warrior/96643/108 "2001-12-06T00:34:01Z")
As for citations: > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by 'Uigi \* > \*\*SMOKE THE BASTARD! > > Iā€™m amazed at the ā€œstuffā€ from the excuse crowd that surfs and provides their panalopy of reasons that little JW shouldnā€™t just be HUNG by the balls with care by the fireplace. > > This dipshit (and his wacko partners) would love nothing better than to shut you up, shut your kids up, trash your religion, and kill your profitable business; they want you goneā€¦ like off the face of the earth. > > Consider whom you decide to defend; it might make a very big difference. \*\* And this one? > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > \*\*OK, tell me this guy isnā€™t a disgusting traitor who desperately needs to be hanged. \*\* Short but direct! [QUOTE] \*Originally posted by gobear \* \*\* > [@](#): > > Hang John Walker. \*\* And here is the Gung Ho hatemonger EJsGirlā€™s oppinion. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by EJsGirl \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by 'Uigi \* > > \*\*If ā€œJohnā€ is a U.S. citizen, then I suspect he could be charged and quite easily found guilty of treason and we all know what the punishment for treason can beā€¦ death. Damned shame hanging isnā€™t available; but then, if heā€™s found guilty by a tribunal isnā€™t firing squad an option? > > > > (\*\* > > . . .! He will most likely be tried for treason, and could easily expect to get a death sentence. > > . . . but he made his choice and now he will get whatā€™s coming to him. Hopefully thatā€™s a bullet. > > And **Hoe**? Go fuck yourself. No, really, go ahead. Try the Craft-matic if you canā€™t get the angle quite right. You seem to have no idea whatsoever about the character of the ā€œaverageā€ American. We are brave, strong and willing to go to any length to protect what we have. We may seem fragmented and lazy and money-grubbing to outsiders, but that shit all falls away when we are threatened. Black, white, hispanic, asian- our multi-colored special operations boys are coming and there ainā€™t no stoppinā€™ us. Dumbass. \*\* If this is not hatefull, what is? ---
**Author:** ![Hoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e68b1a/32.png) [@Hoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hoe)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2001, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-walker-taliban-warrior/96643/109 "2001-12-06T00:38:05Z")
By the way; Good one with the Craft-Matic, EJsGirl. Whatever that is. ---
**Author:** ![milroyj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2001, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-walker-taliban-warrior/96643/110 "2001-12-06T00:53:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by JustPlainBryan \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > _Originally posted by **milroyj** _ > > **bzzzzzzzzt. Thanks for playing. The U.S. didnā€™t put the Taliban into power, especially not in the 80ā€™s, since they didnā€™t come into power until 1996. You are the weakest link, goodbye.** > > Come on, doesnā€™t that seem a little childish?\*\* Childish maybe, but no more so than his choice of a username, which is not only childish, but offensive. Especially a mere couple of days after the horrendous terrorist attacks in Israel. There was another one today, but the bomb detonated prematurely. Surely a person joining the SDMB on 9/12 with the username ā€œWTCBomberā€ would be considered by many to be a jerk, and my opinion of Nailbomb is much the same. ---
**Author:** ![musicguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ba0ec/32.png) [@musicguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/musicguy)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2001, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-walker-taliban-warrior/96643/111 "2001-12-06T00:54:48Z")
Itā€™s a shame this thread has gotten so far away from the OP. I thought the discussion about John walker was quite interesting. Just my two cents. ---
**Author:** ![Hoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e68b1a/32.png) [@Hoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hoe)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2001, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-walker-taliban-warrior/96643/112 "2001-12-06T01:14:09Z")
Back to the original post. In my opinion JW did nothing wrong. He answered a call for arms by a government HE belived legitimate. He did so for religious reasons. At the time of enlistment America had not Assaulted Afghanistan yet. So he would not at that time be aware that his countrymen would so graciously invade WITHOUT DECLARING WAR. This is to be done: Ashcroft should shake his hand and say to him; ā€œDonā€™t do it again!ā€ to which Walker would reply; ā€œNo I wonā€™t, Mr. Ass-croftā€. Ashcroft would then say; ā€œThe name is Ashcroft!ā€, to which Walker would then reply; ā€œI KNOWā€. Back to you. ---
**Author:** ![Asylum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/53a042/32.png) [@Asylum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asylum)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2001, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-walker-taliban-warrior/96643/113 "2001-12-06T01:35:06Z")
**Hoe**. Those comments do seem hateful, but it would seem thatā€™s because they view John Walker as a traitor to his country, not simply because heā€™s has views against mainstream America. You, however, have gotten on here and made such memorable comments as: Your first post: > [@](#): > > \*\*Anmed Americans have been known to support terrorists. If you encounter any ANMEDs, contact the police \*\* Your second post: > [@](#): > > \*\*What kind of a jackass fights FOR the filthy, murderous Americans? \*\* and a little later: > [@](#): > > \*\*What do the American people do? NOTHING. They are willing to sacrifice their hard earned freedom, so THEY can feel safe. Rendering the constitution redundant. The American people have NO convictions. They have TELEVISION. As long as it flashes in forty fucking colors, THEY DONā€™T CARE. \*\* And you gave crap as backup to those comments. I understand that youā€™re parodying the OP with your first two comments, but you could have done a whole lot more to make clear why you thought parodying was appropriate. You then wonder why people defend America while hurling invectives at you? Personally Iā€™m sitting on the fence in terms of the whole John Walker deal until I get a few more details. And if I disagree with one side or the other when I make my decision Iā€™ll be sure to debate against them with a fair amount of politeness. Unless of course, they decide to be unfairly rude to me first. ---
**Author:** ![drgonzo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5fc32e/32.png) [@drgonzo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drgonzo)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2001, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-walker-taliban-warrior/96643/114 "2001-12-06T01:43:01Z")
At least Hoe doesnĀ“t blindly quote the government-subventioned drivel CNN airs all day longā€¦ ---
**Author:** ![omni-not](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8dc957/32.png) [@omni-not](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/omni-not)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2001, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-walker-taliban-warrior/96643/115 "2001-12-06T02:00:19Z")
Up until his parents spoke for him, I had the distinct impression he was one of the Taliban (translator, perhaps) who were trying to save their asses. The physical appearance would also suggest mor Afghan than American, although dress and beard can obviously be misleading. ---
**Author:** ![musicguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ba0ec/32.png) [@musicguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/musicguy)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2001, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-walker-taliban-warrior/96643/116 "2001-12-06T02:08:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Hoe \* > \*\*Back to the original post. > > In my opinion JW did nothing wrong. He answered a call for arms by a government HE belived legitimate. He did so for religious reasons. At the time of enlistment America had not Assaulted Afghanistan yet. So he would not at that time be aware that his countrymen would so graciously invade WITHOUT DECLARING WAR. > > Back to you. \*\* 1)Since you are so quick to attack typos like you did with the OP, what the hell does ā€œbelivedā€ mean? 1. The Taliban are not a recognized as a legitimate government of anyone. 2. America did not assault Afghanistan. They retaliated against murderers that the Taliban regime was (and still is) protecting. For people who were assaulted as you propose, they seem pretty damn happy to have the Taliban gone. 3. Or maybe JW wasnā€™t aware that he was befriending people who would ā€œso graciouslyā€ protect those that would ā€œso graciouslyā€ kill 3000 innocent civilians. By the way, if we hadnā€™t gone over there, how many more americans would have had to been killed before your thick skull realized that we had to put a stop to it. ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2001, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-walker-taliban-warrior/96643/117 "2001-12-06T02:15:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Hoe \* > **So he would not at that time be aware that his countrymen would so graciously invade WITHOUT DECLARING WAR.** Well, since we are not at war with the state of Afghanistan, nor its legitimate government then there is no need to declare war. > [@](#): > > \*\*Ashcroft should shake his hand and say to him; ā€œDonā€™t do it again!ā€ to which Walker would reply; ā€œNo I wonā€™t, Mr. Ass-croftā€. Ashcroft would then say; ā€œThe name is Ashcroft!ā€, to which Walker would then reply; ā€œI KNOWā€. > \*\* Wow. Thatā€™s pretty mature. ---
**Author:** ![musicguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ba0ec/32.png) [@musicguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/musicguy)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2001, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-walker-taliban-warrior/96643/118 "2001-12-06T02:21:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Hoe \* > \*\* > > This is to be done: > Ashcroft should shake his hand and say to him; ā€œDonā€™t do it again!ā€ to which Walker would reply; ā€œNo I wonā€™t, Mr. Ass-croftā€. Ashcroft would then say; ā€œThe name is Ashcroft!ā€, to which Walker would then reply; ā€œI KNOWā€. > > Back to you. \*\* Or maybe he wonā€™t resort to childish name calling and present his reasoning behind his decisions in a rational way. I hear that is a sign of intelligence. ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2001, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-walker-taliban-warrior/96643/119 "2001-12-06T04:14:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Asylum \* > \*\*[Not anymore.](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A3540-2001Nov22.html) \*\* Ah! Iā€™d missed that. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Nailbomb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Nailbomb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nailbomb)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2001, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-walker-taliban-warrior/96643/120 "2001-12-06T04:51:06Z")
Ok, time to address some things. First off, Nailbomb is a name I use on every message board Iā€™m on and have for several years. I use it without thinking about it because quite frankly, I donā€™t care if it offends anyone, especially not now. Send me a map of Afghanistan showing the vast amount of land controlled by the NA. Seriously. Find one. Prove to me the point and I will conceed it. Until then, Iā€™m going to stick to my definition of the NA. The IRA also controls land, and according to the interpretation could very easily fit the definition of government, but are they? Where did Bin Laden get his ā€œvehiclesā€ that he rode to victory with in '94? Were they Soviet, German, US? Anyone know? America seceeded from Britain and won. Taliban seceeded from the Northern Alliance and won. South seceeded from the Union and did not win. Northern Alliance attempts secession and appears about to win. Apparently, our congressmen are all soldiers because they hold seats in government. However, a person whoā€™s actually into debating and not insulting people has brought to my attention that a soldier is also someone who is a loyal, active, militant member of an Organization. So I guess some of the Boy Scouts do count as soldiers. How very interesting. The Americans in Vietnam and Korea were holding weapons, which indicates that you missed the point of the quote from the Geneva Convention I used entirely. The quote stated that enemy soldiers who laid down their arms were then considered prisoners of war and were not allowed to killed, humiliated, or tortured. Down to the original intention of my post: To show that people do things for reasons that they see as right. Everyone has a reason, and that reason to them is paramount. So John Walker is not some evil traitor who worships the devil and sacrifices puppies. Heā€™s simply a man, doing something he believed in. To them, we are the enemy. As Iā€™ve stated many times, Iā€™m not joining them, if there were an actual war going on here, Iā€™d join up and lay down with my machine guns of glory and all that other soldier crap. Iā€™m just pointing out that America isnā€™t the benevolent country of good headed by God and steamrolled by the sales of small kittens without homes that people seem to take it for. We have to do shitty things to stay as a world power. Those actions will make enemies for us. Those enemies will have followers and a fifth column, people within another countryā€™s terroritory who will attack when necessary. They will have people who agree with them. Are these people wrong? Not in their eyes. And thatā€™s all that matters to them. He took a stand in what he believes in and quite frankly I hope we donā€™t kill him or Bin Laden. Then theyā€™re just martyrs to their causes. I declare this thread dead. Iā€™ve said what Iā€™ve wanted to say and Iā€™m tired of defending myself from people who only want to believe that Americaā€™s streets are paved in gold instead of the blood theyā€™re really paved with. Iā€™m sure someone will copy and paste my comments here and try to make me look stupid, declare Iā€™m wrong, yadda yadda and not back up anything theyā€™ve said as Iā€™ve attempted to do. In fact itā€™s those self-same people who yell cite and then, they themselves never do. Anyways. Some people you just canā€™t convince, and itā€™s not my job to continue to try. ## Nailbomb ā€œIf you cannot make the commitment that we have made here, then we are dead.ā€ -Flip Crowley during the Attica Riots. ā€œA conservative is one who admires radicals centuries after theyā€™re dead.ā€ -Leo C. Rosten ā€œWe are getting into semantics again. If we use words, there is a very grave danger they will be misinterpreted.ā€ -H. R. Haldeman, testifying in his own defense [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-walker-taliban-warrior/96643.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-walker-taliban-warrior/96643.md?page=7)