# John Wayne Throwdown: Rio Bravo vs. El Dorado (50 year old spoilers)

**URL:** <https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-wayne-throwdown-rio-bravo-vs-el-dorado-50-year-old-spoilers/517335>\
**Category:** Cafe Society\
**Created:** [November 12, 2009, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-wayne-throwdown-rio-bravo-vs-el-dorado-50-year-old-spoilers/517335 "2009-11-12T17:48:37Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 20\
**Page:** 2

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![HelenGawn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a88e4f/32.png) [@HelenGawn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HelenGawn)\
**Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-wayne-throwdown-rio-bravo-vs-el-dorado-50-year-old-spoilers/517335/21 "2009-11-13T18:53:45Z")

</div>

**Rio Bravo** for the slash: Wayne kisses Brennan’s bald head, Brennan whacks him in the butt with a broom. Clearly a long-established pattern of foreplay.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Khadaji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Khadaji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khadaji)\
**Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-wayne-throwdown-rio-bravo-vs-el-dorado-50-year-old-spoilers/517335/22 "2009-11-13T19:43:01Z")

</div>

Rio Bravo was a favorite of my dad’s. I like it best for the memories it brings. And Angie Dickenson is smoking hot.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![TV\_time](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f17d59/32.png) [@TV\_time](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TV_time)\
**Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-wayne-throwdown-rio-bravo-vs-el-dorado-50-year-old-spoilers/517335/23 "2009-11-13T23:26:06Z")

</div>

It’s Rio Bravo for me, but I love them both. The scenes that always stick in my mind are the gun fights (Yeah, I know that makes me a barbarian). But the one where Nelson tosses Wayne the Winchester, and Nelson really does draw and shoot twice while it’s in the air. I was impressed. And Stumpy blasting the guy from the jail cell…And the final dynamite scene with Stumpy throwing and Wayne and Martin shooting…Yep, as a fun shoot-um-up Western. Rio Bravo wins. Yeah… and Angie Dickinson.

The final in the trilogy was …Rio Lobo. That just sucked.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![TV\_time](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f17d59/32.png) [@TV\_time](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TV_time)\
**Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-wayne-throwdown-rio-bravo-vs-el-dorado-50-year-old-spoilers/517335/24 "2009-11-13T23:40:52Z")

</div>

> [@aceplace57](#):
>
> I always questioned the decision to put pop stars in Wayne’s movies. Ricky Nelson, Glen Campbell etc.

Wasn’t Bobby Vinton in two of them? The Train Robbers and Big Jake. And Fabian in North to Alaska. Thank heavens he went with Opie Cunningham in The Shootist. We’re probably lucky it wasn’t Michael Jackson.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![NDP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ndp/32/55_2.png) [@NDP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NDP)\
**Post date:** [November 14, 2009, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-wayne-throwdown-rio-bravo-vs-el-dorado-50-year-old-spoilers/517335/25 "2009-11-14T00:08:58Z")

</div>

> [@TV\_time](#):
>
> Wasn’t Bobby Vinton in two of them? The Train Robbers and Big Jake. And Fabian in North to Alaska.

Also, Frankie Avalon in **The Alamo**.:rolleyes:

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Roadfood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9fc348/32.png) [@Roadfood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roadfood)\
**Post date:** [November 14, 2009, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-wayne-throwdown-rio-bravo-vs-el-dorado-50-year-old-spoilers/517335/26 "2009-11-14T00:52:14Z")

</div>

I like them both, but really prefer Wayne’s character in El Dorado. He just has such a commanding presence in that movie. My favorite scene is when he brings the dead lookout-boy back to the ranch. All those gunhands around, and Wayne is in total command. “But if THIS bunch is the best you’ve got . . .” And then the way he backs his horse out. Just great.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\
**Post date:** [November 14, 2009, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-wayne-throwdown-rio-bravo-vs-el-dorado-50-year-old-spoilers/517335/27 "2009-11-14T01:02:28Z")

</div>

I must go for El Dorado. Arthur Hunnicutt is from Gravely, Arkansas. :rolleyes:

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![wedgehed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8edcca/32.png) [@wedgehed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wedgehed)\
**Post date:** [November 14, 2009, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-wayne-throwdown-rio-bravo-vs-el-dorado-50-year-old-spoilers/517335/28 "2009-11-14T01:12:09Z")

</div>

It’s a shame that a young Clint Eastwood was never cast in one of Duke’s movies. I suppose he was already too big a star to play 2nd fiddle by the time _True Grit_ was made, but he would have made that movie perfect by playing Le Boeuf.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\
**Post date:** [November 14, 2009, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-wayne-throwdown-rio-bravo-vs-el-dorado-50-year-old-spoilers/517335/29 "2009-11-14T01:34:30Z")

</div>

> [@wedgehed](#):
>
> It’s a shame that a young Clint Eastwood was never cast in one of Duke’s movies…he would have made that movie perfect by playing Le Boeuf.

He certainly would. I recall there was some hype over choosing Campbell who couldn’t act worth spit because he was from the same state as the author, Charles Portis. Campbell starred in the film version of Charles Portis’ _Norwood._

Why the hell did I have to mention Gravely, why?🙂

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\
**Post date:** [November 14, 2009, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-wayne-throwdown-rio-bravo-vs-el-dorado-50-year-old-spoilers/517335/30 "2009-11-14T06:26:45Z")

</div>

Some Triva, anyone notice the Kid John Wayne shoots in El Dorado was Johnny Crawford?

That’s right J. Wayne shot Lucas McCain’s boy. The Rifleman would be a serious threat against anyone with a pistol.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\
**Post date:** [November 14, 2009, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-wayne-throwdown-rio-bravo-vs-el-dorado-50-year-old-spoilers/517335/31 "2009-11-14T14:39:07Z")

</div>

> [@carnivorousplant](#):
>
> I must go for El Dorado. Arthur Hunnicutt is from Gravely, Arkansas. :rolleyes:

The problem is they don’t have true grit in Gravely like they do in Dardanelle in Yell County Arkansas.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\
**Post date:** [November 14, 2009, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-wayne-throwdown-rio-bravo-vs-el-dorado-50-year-old-spoilers/517335/32 "2009-11-14T14:55:57Z")

</div>

> [@Odesio](#):
>
> The problem is they don’t have true grit in Gravely like they do in Dardanelle in Yell County Arkansas.

But they are so [close.](http://www.mapquest.com/maps?1c=Dardanelle&1s=AR&2c=Gravelly&2s=AR)..🙂

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\
**Post date:** [November 14, 2009, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-wayne-throwdown-rio-bravo-vs-el-dorado-50-year-old-spoilers/517335/33 "2009-11-14T17:16:00Z")

</div>

> [@wedgehed](#):
>
> It’s a shame that a young Clint Eastwood was never cast in one of Duke’s movies. I suppose he was already too big a star to play 2nd fiddle by the time _True Grit_ was made, but he would have made that movie perfect by playing Le Boeuf.

Yeah, but if I recall correctly, Le Boeuf was killed. You simply \*can’t \*have Eastwood killed in a movie.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\
**Post date:** [November 14, 2009, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-wayne-throwdown-rio-bravo-vs-el-dorado-50-year-old-spoilers/517335/34 "2009-11-14T17:40:36Z")

</div>

> [@BrotherCadfael](#):
>
> You simply \*can’t \*have Eastwood killed in a movie.

[spoiler] **High Plains Drifter**

**Gran Torino** [/spoiler]

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![balibago](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8baadc/32.png) [@balibago](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/balibago)\
**Post date:** [February 18, 2012, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-wayne-throwdown-rio-bravo-vs-el-dorado-50-year-old-spoilers/517335/35 "2012-02-18T14:20:35Z")

</div>

gotta go with el dorado,james caan was so superior to nelson,martin was ok he held his own but so did mitchum,nothing against dickinson but charlene holt was a truly beautiful woman

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Khadaji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Khadaji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khadaji)\
**Post date:** [February 18, 2012, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-wayne-throwdown-rio-bravo-vs-el-dorado-50-year-old-spoilers/517335/36 "2012-02-18T15:49:12Z")

</div>

Rio Bravo. I saw it in my youth and have a fond memory of a generally good family-together time.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![HelenGawn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a88e4f/32.png) [@HelenGawn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HelenGawn)\
**Post date:** [February 18, 2012, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-wayne-throwdown-rio-bravo-vs-el-dorado-50-year-old-spoilers/517335/37 "2012-02-18T20:09:47Z")

</div>

Kismet: Just as I opened this thread, _Get Along Home, Cindy Cindy_ came on the radio. **Rio Bravo** is my all-time favorite movie.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Face\_Intentionally\_Left\_Blank](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/face_intentionally_left_blank/32/288_2.png) [@Face\_Intentionally\_Left\_Blank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Face_Intentionally_Left_Blank)\
**Post date:** [February 20, 2012, 7:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-wayne-throwdown-rio-bravo-vs-el-dorado-50-year-old-spoilers/517335/38 "2012-02-20T07:40:04Z")

</div>

Rio Bravo in a walk. James Caan’s character wasn’t that interesting to me, Robert Michum was great in everything he did, but Dean Martin was more interesting to me, and was great in that role. Angie Dickinson had the better role. Ricky Nelson was middlin’ in his performance (but much better than Glen Campbell in True Grit), but an interesting wild-card as a character.

Interestingly, the Sci-Fi writer Leigh Brackett wrote the screenplay for Rio Bravo, Rio Lobo, and El Dorado (and several other well-known movies).

> **[Leigh Brackett | Screenwriter](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leigh_Brackett#Screenwriter)**
>
> Shortly after Brackett broke into science fiction writing, she wrote her first screenplays. Hollywood director Howard Hawks was so impressed by her novel No Good from a Corpse that he had his secretary call in "this guy Brackett" to help William Faulkner write the script for The Big Sleep (1946). The film was written by Brackett, Faulkner, and Jules Furthman, and starred Humphrey Bogart.
> After getting married, Brackett took a break from screenwriting. When she returned to screenwriting in the mi...

I forget where I read it (maybe in the foreword to a collection of her short stories in a library book I took out), but as I recall, she was well aware of the similarities, but that’s what they wanted her to wrote, so she wrote 'em anyway.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\
**Post date:** [February 20, 2012, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-wayne-throwdown-rio-bravo-vs-el-dorado-50-year-old-spoilers/517335/39 "2012-02-20T08:00:27Z")

</div>

It’s a toss up for me. I’d watch either movie. I really prefer Walter Brennan, but for the other characters I don’t have a great preference. I don’t think either Martin or Mitchum gave their finest performances here, but they were stuck playing second fiddle to the Duke.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\
**Post date:** [February 20, 2012, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-wayne-throwdown-rio-bravo-vs-el-dorado-50-year-old-spoilers/517335/40 "2012-02-20T15:54:16Z")

</div>

> [@mlees](#):
>
> I like both films. I have to object: John doesn’t play the same character in both films.
> 
> In Rio Bravo, Wayne is a Sheriff. In El Dorado, Wayne is a gun for hire.
> 
> I think it’s a little creepy watching a young Angie Dickensen necking with a 52 year old Duke, but since _I’m_ fast approaching 50, I reserve the right to change my attitude in the future.

[Angie Dickinson](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angie_Dickinson)(b . 1931) was either twenty-seven or twenty-eight years old at the time of the filming of [Rio Bravo(1959)](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0053221/). While she’s clearly an adult and in fact had been married since 1952, the general formula for non-creepiness in romantic relations is [Elder’s Age] / 2 + 7 \<= [Younger’s Age] This sets a lower bound for the elder partner’s prospects. I didn’t invent the formula, but I’ve seen it around for some time and it maps fairly cleanly to my own squick meter. I’m not saying it’s never workable to have larger differences, and it obviously doesn’t hold up when both parties are very young.

So in this case we have Wayne, 52, and Dickinson, 28. 52/2 = 26 + 7 = 33 is the lower bound for necking with the Duke at this point in life without running afoul of the creepy calculation.

Now that we’re in the future, and your own age has crept up on you, how do you feel about a 28 year old?

Enjoy,  
Steven

[Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-wayne-throwdown-rio-bravo-vs-el-dorado-50-year-old-spoilers/517335.md?page=1)

[Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-wayne-throwdown-rio-bravo-vs-el-dorado-50-year-old-spoilers/517335.md?page=3)