# John Wayne vs. Clint Eastwood

**URL:** <https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-wayne-vs-clint-eastwood/534829>\
**Category:** Cafe Society\
**Created:** [April 3, 2010, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-wayne-vs-clint-eastwood/534829 "2010-04-03T15:46:11Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 20\
**Page:** 3

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**Author:** ![Zeldar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b77776/32.png) [@Zeldar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeldar)\
**Post date:** [April 4, 2010, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-wayne-vs-clint-eastwood/534829/41 "2010-04-04T12:40:07Z")

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> [@Southern\_Yankee](#):
>
> Clint is more versatile than The Duke was, but for sheer “Movie Star-ness,” John Wayne’s legend still outpaces him. Wayne often seemed bigger than life. As much as I like Clint, I don’t think he commands the screen like Wayne did.

I can concede that point with no shame. In fact, I would have real trouble thinking of anybody in Wayne’s category when it comes to that quality. Here are just a few who do that for me, but not to Wayne’s level:

Yul Brynner  
Robert Mitchum  
Richard Burton  
Brando

Those with names perhaps as big as Wayne’s but whose screen presence is so much weaker to me:

Humphrey Bogart  
James Stewart  
Peter O’Toole  
Alec Guinness  
Charlton Heston

Nice side-track idea, **Southern Yankee**.

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**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\
**Post date:** [April 4, 2010, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-wayne-vs-clint-eastwood/534829/42 "2010-04-04T13:14:33Z")

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I think Clint Eastwood is a far better director or musician than he is actor but I think John Wayne is simply the most wooden big name star of his time. He was in a lot of movies that remained good despite his presence but I only recall liking his portrayals in _The Shootist_ and _The Cowboys_ where both times he played John Wayne.

Wayne’s iconic status is a mystery to me as I don’t recall many interesting things he ever did or said. So Eastwood by a long way. At least he is a genius.

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**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\
**Post date:** [April 4, 2010, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-wayne-vs-clint-eastwood/534829/43 "2010-04-04T19:57:53Z")

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> [@Zsofia](#):
>
> No contest - my dad’s a John Wayne fan, I’m a Clint Eastwood fan. My dad likes straightforward movies with good guys and bad guys, I like mine murky and full of moral gray area. (Yes, yes, I know, _The Searchers_, whatever.)

Yeah… and LIBERTY VALENCE, and EL DORADO, and RED RIVER and… Please.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Zeldar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b77776/32.png) [@Zeldar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeldar)\
**Post date:** [May 1, 2015, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-wayne-vs-clint-eastwood/534829/44 "2015-05-01T22:40:07Z")

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Yes, this is an old zombie of a thread but it bears on a current issue (of sorts) in that these guys (Eastwood and Wayne) are becoming the clear front runners in  
[Your Top 5 All-Time Westerns Stars](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=755009) which has been collecting votes since 04-21-2015.

It looks to me as if the real issue in the “Top 5” question is more like, “Who besides Wayne and Eastwood deserve that consideration?”

Instead of beginning yet another discussion thread maybe we can expand on this one to hash out what (or who) really ought to be up for votes.

Is it worth conceding that #1 and #2 will be Eastwood and Wayne – in some order?

If so, what do we really want to determine as far as **All-Time Favorite Westerns Stars** are concerned?

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**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\
**Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-wayne-vs-clint-eastwood/534829/45 "2015-05-02T01:12:46Z")

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> [@don\_t\_ask](#):
>
> I think Clint Eastwood is a far better director or musician than he is actor but I think John Wayne is simply the most wooden big name star of his time. He was in a lot of movies that remained good despite his presence but I only recall liking his portrayals in _The Shootist_ and _The Cowboys_ where both times he played John Wayne.

I’ll quote myself from another thread by way of refutation:

[QUOTE=BrotherCadfael]  
I’m going to throw in **In Harm’s Way**. John Wayne gives a hell of a performance, demonstrating once and for all that he can in fact play characters other than John Wayne. Patricia Neal and Kirk Douglas round out the cast.

Wayne is an aging Naval officer whose career had somewhat stalled before the war. Neal is an older nurse (again, a career officer), and Douglas is a hell raiser whose adulterous wife was killed at Pearl Harbor.

The film explores the emotional toll taken on these and other characters as the Pacific campaign moves slowly on towards a successful conclusion. Some good action, but the focus is really on the characters.

Highly recommended.  
[/QUOTE]

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**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\
**Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-wayne-vs-clint-eastwood/534829/46 "2015-05-02T01:21:19Z")

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I’ll go Wayne for the way he basically played the same character across different types of films. War, westerns, cop, businessman, boxer – all were basically the same person but still fit all the myriad circumstances of the films.

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**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\
**Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-wayne-vs-clint-eastwood/534829/47 "2015-05-02T01:22:41Z")

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Didn’t Eastwood make that terrible movie where he played Attila the Hun, or something?

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**Author:** ![Lochdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/edb3f5/32.png) [@Lochdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lochdale)\
**Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-wayne-vs-clint-eastwood/534829/48 "2015-05-02T01:25:45Z")

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Without John Wayne there would be no Eastwood. Wayne was just bigger in every respect. Not a knock against Eastwood but Wayne was the pioneer and what every Western and indeed Westenr actor is judged against.

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**Author:** ![Zeldar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b77776/32.png) [@Zeldar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeldar)\
**Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-wayne-vs-clint-eastwood/534829/49 "2015-05-02T01:32:14Z")

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> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#):
>
> Didn’t Eastwood make that terrible movie where he played Attila the Hun, or something?

Would you be thinking of [The Conqueror (1956)](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0049092/?ref_=nm_flmg_act_47)?

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**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\
**Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-wayne-vs-clint-eastwood/534829/50 "2015-05-02T02:19:53Z")

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> [@Lochdale](#):
>
> Without John Wayne there would be no Eastwood.

That seems unlikely, unless you know something about Eastwood’s parentage that nobody else does. 😃 Wayne was hugely popular and successful, but if he’d never gone to Hollywood, the Western genre would still have existed, still have been one of the most popular genres in early film, and would still have employed largely the same tropes and themes. Most of Wayne’s movies, particularly the earlier ones, would still exist, just with a different actor in the lead. When Eastwood’s generation came around, they’d have been reacting to pretty much the same stable of films, pushing mostly the same vision of 19th century America.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Zeldar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b77776/32.png) [@Zeldar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeldar)\
**Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-wayne-vs-clint-eastwood/534829/51 "2015-05-02T03:04:06Z")

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Here’s the latest breakdown of the ongoing poll [Your Top 5 All-Time Westerns Stars](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=755009)

```auto

View Poll Results: Your Top 5 All-Time Westerns Stars  
This poll will close on 06-20-2015 at 10:43 AM 

Clint Eastwood (1930- ) 66 80.49% 
John Wayne (1907–1979) 51 62.20% 

Jimmy Stewart (1908–1997) 26 31.71% 
Gary Cooper (1901–1961) 22 26.83% 
Jack Palance (1919–2006) 21 25.61% 
Lee Marvin (1924–1987) 21 25.61% 
James Garner (1928–2014) 21 25.61% 
Henry Fonda (1905–1982) 20 24.39% 
Paul Newman (1925–2008) 17 20.73% 

Robert Duvall (1931- ) 14 17.07% 
James Coburn (1928–2002) 12 14.63% 
Glenn Ford (1916–2006) 10 12.20% 
OTHER (post and name up to FIVE) 10 12.20% <===
Steve McQueen (1930–1980) 9 10.98% 

Slim Pickens (1919–1983) 8 9.76% 
Jack Elam (1920–2003) 7 8.54% 
Walter Brennan (1894–1974) 5 6.10% 
Burt Lancaster (1913–1994) 5 6.10% 
Robert Redford (1936- ) 4 4.88% 
Strother Martin (1919–1980) 1 1.22% 

Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 82 

```

I’d like some input on what to do with this information.

My thinking runs like this:

1. Have one poll with one vote per voter to determine if the Wayne vs. Eastwood division is as it appears here.

2. Have another poll, again with one vote per voter, to see how valid the ranking is for Stewart through Newman.

3. Similarly with Duvall through McQueen (minus the OTHER category).

4. Disregard the remainder.

5. Depending on how voting turns out, either let that do it, or else devise some Final Poll to resolve any remaining gray area(s).

What’s wrong with this approach? What would be better?

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Lochdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/edb3f5/32.png) [@Lochdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lochdale)\
**Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 8:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-wayne-vs-clint-eastwood/534829/52 "2015-05-02T08:42:36Z")

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> [@Miller](#):
>
> That seems unlikely, unless you know something about Eastwood’s parentage that nobody else does. 😃 Wayne was hugely popular and successful, but if he’d never gone to Hollywood, the Western genre would still have existed, still have been one of the most popular genres in early film, and would still have employed largely the same tropes and themes. Most of Wayne’s movies, particularly the earlier ones, would still exist, just with a different actor in the lead. When Eastwood’s generation came around, they’d have been reacting to pretty much the same stable of films, pushing mostly the same vision of 19th century America.

Ha!

Wayne’s fifth child?

All true but Wayne as the dominant male lead became the archetype of the western character. Eastwood either directly coped that or became a sort of anti-hero version of Wayne but building on everything Wayne had done beforehand.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\
**Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-wayne-vs-clint-eastwood/534829/53 "2015-05-02T22:45:58Z")

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Like 'em both, for very different reasons. Just joining the thread.

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**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\
**Post date:** [May 3, 2015, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-wayne-vs-clint-eastwood/534829/54 "2015-05-03T00:07:18Z")

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John who?

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Miss\_Spaulding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Miss\_Spaulding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miss_Spaulding)\
**Post date:** [May 3, 2015, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-wayne-vs-clint-eastwood/534829/55 "2015-05-03T00:13:55Z")

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> [@Zeldar](#):
>
> There may be other movie stars with the mass appeal of these two, and with the credentials to put them into the same category.
> 
> But for the sake of this thread, try to put into words why you prefer one of them over the other.
> 
> What about “your choice” is the defining characteristic that puts him above the other and all other contenders?

It’s actually kind of hard to say since both are from two different eras. I mean, Wayne was acting until the early '70s, yes, but he’s more known for his earlier stuff.

I like them both, but I’d have to go with John Wayne.

Other choices: Glenn Ford, Henry Fonda, Lee Marvin.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Zeldar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b77776/32.png) [@Zeldar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeldar)\
**Post date:** [May 3, 2015, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-wayne-vs-clint-eastwood/534829/56 "2015-05-03T00:15:18Z")

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> [@Crafter\_Man](#):
>
> John who?

Morrison?

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\
**Post date:** [May 3, 2015, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-wayne-vs-clint-eastwood/534829/57 "2015-05-03T00:35:37Z")

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**John Wayne vs. Clint Eastwood**

What, like, in a fight?

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Zeldar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b77776/32.png) [@Zeldar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeldar)\
**Post date:** [May 3, 2015, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-wayne-vs-clint-eastwood/534829/58 "2015-05-03T00:38:29Z")

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> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#):
>
> **John Wayne vs. Clint Eastwood**
> 
> What, like, in a fight?

Should be a snap for Clint, eh?

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\
**Post date:** [May 3, 2015, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-wayne-vs-clint-eastwood/534829/59 "2015-05-03T00:42:49Z")

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Ya feel lucky? Duke?

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\
**Post date:** [May 3, 2015, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-wayne-vs-clint-eastwood/534829/60 "2015-05-03T01:55:47Z")

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Jazz piano skills are the tiebreaker.

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