# John Wayne would have kicked Chuck Norris's ass **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 11, 2010, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-wayne-would-have-kicked-chuck-norriss-ass/563808 "2010-12-11T19:34:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2010, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-wayne-would-have-kicked-chuck-norriss-ass/563808/121 "2010-12-16T04:28:39Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > I do know John Wayne would kick Jeff Bridges’ ass. **The Duke vs. The Dude** The Duke: Where’s the fuckin’ money… \*pilgrim? \*The Dude: It’s… it’s… (gasp)… it’s, down there somewhere, lemme have another look - _one-eyed fat man._ ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2010, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-wayne-would-have-kicked-chuck-norriss-ass/563808/122 "2010-12-16T04:36:40Z")
> [@D\_Odds](#): > > I’m assuming there are more than 100 street fighters and playing d odds. My money is on Ali, if street fighters follow the inverse law of ninja effectiveness. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2010, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-wayne-would-have-kicked-chuck-norriss-ass/563808/123 "2010-12-16T05:29:51Z")
> [@D\_Odds](#): > > I’m assuming there are more than 100 street fighters and playing d odds. I don’t know what d odds are but I said “at least” because I didn’t want to make some ridiculous 999999999 out of 1000000abillyun number. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2010, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-wayne-would-have-kicked-chuck-norriss-ass/563808/124 "2010-12-16T06:21:49Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > I disagree with this part, if you are referring to UFC. The early open tournaments of UFC were dominated by well trained, skilled martial artists. A perfect example is the Oleg Taktarov vs. Tank Abbot final where Abbot went batshit style maniac against Taktarov, but Taktarov kept his wits about him, and when Abbot began to run out of steam he choked him out. This fight had a lasting effect on the sport because Taktarov bled profusely, causing much criticism of MMA as a ‘bloodsport’. This despite the fact that the cuts were superficial. I remember that fight well. But Taktarov isn’t the kind of martial artist I’m thinking about. He was trained in Judo and Sambo, but he was also a self-defense instructor for the KGB and ex-military, and I’m sure had plenty of full-contact brawls under his belt. The guys I’m talking about were the traditional Karate guys like Ron Van Clief and some other high-dan traditional practitioners. I remember in those early days a few guys would come out in their Gis, get into a stance like they were fighting semi-contact, and then attempt to land a big kick or punch or do some kind of takedown, and they’d just get destroyed. Tank Abbot is a good example of the kind of fighter that wins. He had no martial arts training, describing himself as a ‘self-taught street fighter’. He was just big and mean. And he went through an awful lot of guys who had decades of martial arts training. Of course, if your training is in Brazilian Jujitsu, then that’s a different thing. But have you ever seen how the Gracies trained? Balls-out, full contact. They sustained a lot of training injuries because they went at it full tilt. That’s what it takes to desensitize yourself so that you can keep your wits about you when Tank Abbot is charging you with murder in his eye. > [@](#): > > Your general argument might work in favor of John Wayne. He might have had more actual brawling experience than Norris, but I don’t have any info regarding Norris in that regard, and the evidence for Wayne is anecdotal. I didn’t know Wayne was a fighter. He was a movie actor from a pretty young age. > [@](#): > > Ali however participated in full contact boxing matches against opponents who weren’t always concerned with the rules, and even when they were they were very dangerous men. Ali’s experience in training and actual fighting far exceeded Norris’s so even in a back alley brawl he would have had the upper hand. His ability to keep his head under the worst conditions was demonstrated numerous times. Agreed. Ali was the guy who would probably have beaten both of them. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2010, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-wayne-would-have-kicked-chuck-norriss-ass/563808/125 "2010-12-16T07:04:03Z")
Pee-Wee Herman would kick John Wayne’s ass. And then do other things to it. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2010, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-wayne-would-have-kicked-chuck-norriss-ass/563808/126 "2010-12-16T15:04:15Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > The guys I’m talking about were the traditional Karate guys like Ron Van Clief and some other high-dan traditional practitioners. I remember in those early days a few guys would come out in their Gis, get into a stance like they were fighting semi-contact, and then attempt to land a big kick or punch or do some kind of takedown, and they’d just get destroyed. > > I didn’t know Wayne was a fighter. He was a movie actor from a pretty young age. > > Agreed. Ali was the guy who would probably have beaten both of them. Ok, yes, several black belts with only exhibition experience could not hold up, they just didn’t win the tournaments. It is not the discipline, it is the type of training. I’m just mentioning that Wayne was reputed to have been in a few fights that were real brawls insteaded of regulated contests. Norris as an MP (or the AF equivalent) might have done the same. Some people naturally hold their own in a brawl or street fight, while you can be highly trained in a martial arts style without having real fighting experience or the mindset for an all out fight. As I mentioned, Wayne’s fighting background is just anecdotes. Along the lines of your point, modern martial arts are primarily practised as an exhibition sport, or with limitiations, because they are deadly arts. Masters of karate, tae kwon do, kung fu, and others could not engage in full contact all out fights with each other very often, or there would be only one master in each discipline left. ---
**Author:** ![BlinkingDuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eada6e/32.png) [@BlinkingDuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlinkingDuck)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2010, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-wayne-would-have-kicked-chuck-norriss-ass/563808/127 "2010-12-16T16:39:58Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > All those other guys, they may have been badasses relative to other actors; Murphy was a badass relative to other badasses. Here Here! My God, Murphy was something! They had to tame DOWN his exploits when they made a movie about him because audiences wouldn’t have believed it. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2010, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-wayne-would-have-kicked-chuck-norriss-ass/563808/128 "2010-12-16T17:02:08Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Along the lines of your point, modern martial arts are primarily practised as an exhibition sport, or with limitiations, because they are deadly arts. Masters of karate, tae kwon do, kung fu, and others could not engage in full contact all out fights with each other very often, or there would be only one master in each discipline left. Lol. Well, that’s what they want you to think at your friendly neighborhood McDojo, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2010, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-wayne-would-have-kicked-chuck-norriss-ass/563808/129 "2010-12-16T17:42:57Z")
> [@BlinkingDuck](#): > > Here Here! > > My God, Murphy was something! They had to tame DOWN his exploits when they made a movie about him because audiences wouldn’t have believed it. A review of the Medal of Honor winners in WWII will show numerous acts of heroism that place them on a much higher level than Wayne, Norris, Ali, and most others mentioned in this thread. If this thread was about courage and determination, Audie would be the clear cut winner. > [@Cisco](#): > > Lol. > > Well, that’s what they want you to think at your friendly neighborhood McDojo, anyway. Could you be more clear in your point? I wasn’t refering to the guys running McDojos as the masters of these disciplines. ---
**Author:** ![StusBlues](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@StusBlues](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StusBlues)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2010, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-wayne-would-have-kicked-chuck-norriss-ass/563808/130 "2010-12-16T17:47:10Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > Lol. > > Well, that’s what they want you to think at your friendly neighborhood McDojo, anyway. Seconded. We’re in very odd territory here. I am going to have to plead ignorance about Norris’ abilities in a full-contact milieu; I’ve never seen any of his real fights, and couldn’t adequately judge how he’d do against a boxer. Using the early UFCs as a lab, though, I’m not sure how tenable it is to say that Muhammad Ali could have walked all over fighters from other disciplines where one is allowed to do more than punch. On John Wayne’s martial experience: I’m not sure how many real scraps he was in. I haven’t been in a real fight since I was 12 (I boxed in college and did some BJJ in grad school), but I’ve had several friends who work in security tell me that, as a rule, a guy with my general build and bearing will get a pass on physical confrontations unless it’s really an issue. The Duke was much more physically imposing than I am, so I suspect he didn’t really have to fight–he could win by showing up. That said (and you can judge the relevance of this yourselves), John Wayne is widely credited with developing many stage combat techniques with Yakima Canutt during their B-movie work in the 1930s. In his physical prime, the Duke could fake a fistfight about as well as anyone–and I mean that quite literally. Duke and Yak really didn’t have peers at the time. Whether or not that translated into competence in a real fight I couldn’t tell you with any confidence. No way he’d win against Chuck Norris, but as I said above, he was unusually physically compenent for an actor. ---
**Author:** ![liveactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/5f9b8f/32.png) [@liveactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/liveactor)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2015, 7:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-wayne-would-have-kicked-chuck-norriss-ass/563808/131 "2015-03-12T07:18:02Z")
What everyone has to remember is that “The Puke” was just a make believe Hollywood created tough guy. He sent letters of deferment to The Selective Service in WWII. That’s right, the great Hollwood created tough guy chose not to fight for his country. Chuck Norris on the other hand is a guy not to be messed with. After all, he beat Bruce Lee and that was no easy task. He would have moped the floor with John Wayne and hung him up to dry. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2015, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-wayne-would-have-kicked-chuck-norriss-ass/563808/132 "2015-03-12T07:21:46Z")
I can think of a person: Gordie Howe ---
**Author:** ![liveactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/5f9b8f/32.png) [@liveactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/liveactor)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2015, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-wayne-would-have-kicked-chuck-norriss-ass/563808/133 "2015-03-12T07:22:53Z")
Norris is a tough guy, Wayne was a make believe tough guy. Big difference. ---
**Author:** ![liveactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/5f9b8f/32.png) [@liveactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/liveactor)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2015, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-wayne-would-have-kicked-chuck-norriss-ass/563808/134 "2015-03-12T16:30:34Z")
Lee Marvin used to slap John Wayne around when he got ready. Wayne even wore a pink bandana when he starred with his boyfriend Rock Hudson in The Undefeated. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![liveactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/5f9b8f/32.png) [@liveactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/liveactor)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2015, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-wayne-would-have-kicked-chuck-norriss-ass/563808/135 "2015-03-12T16:44:32Z")
Bravo! ---
**Author:** ![leftfield6](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leftfield6/32/18780_2.png) [@leftfield6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leftfield6)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2015, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-wayne-would-have-kicked-chuck-norriss-ass/563808/136 "2015-03-12T16:48:25Z")
I’m not going to be the guy that points out that this is a resurrected thread, just for the sake of shouting zombie, but I will ask WTF?" **liveactor** signs up with this board just to resurrect a long dead thread about John Wayne, and post three times, each a take down of the toughness or masculinity of John Wayne, with a little homo-slander thrown in for good neasure. So I gotta ask, **liveactor** did someone who looked like John Wayne steal your puppy or something? ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2015, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-wayne-would-have-kicked-chuck-norriss-ass/563808/137 "2015-03-12T17:20:39Z")
I have no idea which Hollywood action stars were or are genuine tough guys and which just play tough guys for pay. I will offer no opinion as to which stars could beat up any other stars in a real fight. I will note that Chuck Norris is quite short. Historically, he and/or his producers have been very sensitive about that. I know a local Austin deejay who thought he’d gotten a role on \*\*\*Walker, Texas Ranger \*\*\*years ago. He was excited about it, but an actor friend warned him, “You’re never going to appear on that show.” The deejay was my size, 6’4", and Chuck Norris never allows big guys to appear near him on camera. Turned out, the friend was right- the role was un-offered. ---
**Author:** ![johnpost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f17d59/32.png) [@johnpost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnpost)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2015, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-wayne-would-have-kicked-chuck-norriss-ass/563808/138 "2015-03-12T17:57:49Z")
zombie or no you know what the Duke would say to Chuck ‘couldn’t act if his life depended on it’ Norris? Fill your hand, you son of a bitch! ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2015, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-wayne-would-have-kicked-chuck-norriss-ass/563808/139 "2015-03-12T18:06:32Z")
> [@johnpost](#): > > zombie or no > > you know what the Duke would say to Chuck ‘couldn’t act if his life depended on it’ Norris? > > Fill your hand, you son of a bitch! And C.N. grabs his “weapon”. ---
**Author:** ![Kinthalis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kinthalis/32/16084_2.png) [@Kinthalis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kinthalis)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2015, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-wayne-would-have-kicked-chuck-norriss-ass/563808/140 "2015-03-12T18:21:57Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Norris doesn’t use guns because they kill people too slowly. > > There is no such thing as “evolution”. Only animals Chuck Norris allows to live. Crap, I spilled my coffee! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-wayne-would-have-kicked-chuck-norriss-ass/563808.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-wayne-would-have-kicked-chuck-norriss-ass/563808.md?page=8)