# Johnny Depp to play the Riddler? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 1, 2008, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnny-depp-to-play-the-riddler/458495 "2008-08-01T15:04:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2008, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnny-depp-to-play-the-riddler/458495/1 "2008-08-01T15:04:39Z")
[Telegraph](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/celebritynews/2480975/Batman-sequel-to-The-Dark-Knight-Johnny-Depp-to-play-The-Riddler.html) > [@](#): > > Heath Ledger’s performance as The Joker has set the bar high for Gotham City villains, but reports in the US say studio bosses have set their sights on Depp as The Riddler and Philip Seymour Hoffman as The Penguin. > > “Producers are convinced that the role of The Riddler is perfect for Depp. Johnny’s a pro. He’ll be able to take direction and still make the character his own. And what better Penguin is there than Philip Seymour Hoffman?” a source said. > > They could be joining Angelina Jolie - the actress is reported to be after the role of Catwoman. Not bad casting over all. PSH should be fine for Penguin. Depp can be a little hit or miss. He takes weird chances with characterizations and sometimes it works brilliantly (Keith Richards Pirate), but sometimes it doesn’t work at all (Michael Jackson Wonka). I think a lot’s going to depend on how Nolan conceptualizes these characters. Like I said in one of the other threads, The question mark costume has got to go. Maybe they can find some otherway to incorporate some element of it, but I think too many costumed villains just won’t fit into Nolan’s DK universe. Having said that, I do think that Angelina Jolie will probably look ok in a skin tight leotard. I also think she’s a good actress who does well at these kinds of larger than life characters. Of course, I still would have rather seen more of Ledger’s Joker. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2008, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnny-depp-to-play-the-riddler/458495/2 "2008-08-01T15:15:32Z")
I don’t like it. I like Depp, but I don’t like this idea. Depp has the same weakness for whimsy as his sometimes collaborator Tim Burton. I suspect and fear that Depp would take the franchise back into campiness and thereby destroy it. I’m thinking Batman needs to stay as far away from Tim Burton and his camp as possible. (I also can’t imagine Hoffman delivering a non-campy performance.) > [@](#): > > Having said that, I do think that Angelina Jolie will probably look ok in a skin tight leotard. You do realize she just had twins? 🙂 I would hate to see the studio force megastars into the villain roles. I think that was part of what killed the last franchise. I’d rather cast actors of lesser wattage, who maybe come to the roles without a lot of audience preconceptions. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Tan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/charlie_tan/32/12582_2.png) [@Charlie\_Tan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Tan)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2008, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnny-depp-to-play-the-riddler/458495/3 "2008-08-01T15:30:23Z")
I don’t think this will happen. With the success of #2, Nolan can do whatever he wants and if you look carefully, he’s basically stayed away from American actors. In the first movie, he had Katie Holmes and Morgan Freeman. I guess Caine, Neeson and maybe Hauer has name recognition, but not as a-lister. Added Americans for the second outing are Eckhart, Gyllenhaal, Eric Roberts and Anthony Michael Hall. Nolan doesn’t need an a-lister for any villain part and I think he’ll stay away from them, so as not to remove focus from the Batman and the Story. Hadn’t Ledger died, there wouldn’t have been as much brouhaha about his performance other than it being good. I think Kristen Bell has a bigger chance than Jolie in landing the role as CW (and I think she’d be excellent). ---
**Author:** ![drm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a88e57/32.png) [@drm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drm)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2008, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnny-depp-to-play-the-riddler/458495/4 "2008-08-01T15:49:49Z")
The Riddler, Penguin, AND Catwoman in the same movie? That is going to require a ton of plot and if this holds up, we’re looking at another 150 minute movie, at least. I wouldn’t worry too much about Johnny Depp. Keep in mind that Chris Nolan has a good deal of say as to what type of Riddler he wants so if he wants Depp to dial it back, Depp has the ability. I think Chris Nolan deserves a little trust. I’ve never been crazy about Catwoman as a villain and I was hoping that Batman would go off the beaten path a little in terms of villains, but as long as they stay away from Jim Carrey Riddler and Danny DeVito Penguin, I’ll be fine. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2008, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnny-depp-to-play-the-riddler/458495/5 "2008-08-01T16:03:08Z")
I think the Penguin has been ruled out because the character is perceived by Nolan as being a bit too…well campy (no other word comes to mind) for this particular Batman universe. That’s what someone posted in the big Batman thread. I’ve seen Depp do very well in a number of serious films. This isn’t Jim Carrey where even in his more “dramatic” roles is stil doing the smirk and the aside to the 4th wall and so on (and I liked what Carrey did in **The Truman Show** and **Man in the Moon** ). ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2008, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnny-depp-to-play-the-riddler/458495/6 "2008-08-01T16:10:05Z")
I like Johnny Depp as much as the next guy, but honestly, does he have to be in every movie ever made? I don’t know that he would be a bad Riddler, but he’s not the right actor for every part. 😛 I get the sense some people would push for him to star in a Grandma Moses biopic. Based on what he did as Jack Sparrow, which was great, I can see where people think he might work as the Riddler. I’d definitely give it a shot. But he didn’t impress me as Wonka or Sweeney Todd, so I do have some concerns. I like Philip Seymour Hoffman, but Batman Begins was very serious - I’m the last person in the U.S. who hasn’t seen The Dark Knight, but I hope to get there Sunday - and it’s hard to take the Penguin seriously. I won’t say Angelina Jolie couldn’t play Catwoman, it just seems a little trite. And the character might be best avoided in case anyone remembers the Halle Berry movie. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2008, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnny-depp-to-play-the-riddler/458495/7 "2008-08-01T16:11:46Z")
Not that it’s going to happen, but I’ll probably stay home if either Depp or Jolie get cast. I love PSH but I’ll also probably stay home if the penguin is in the movie at all. ---
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2008, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnny-depp-to-play-the-riddler/458495/8 "2008-08-01T16:16:38Z")
[QUOTE=spoke-] I don’t like it. I like Depp, but I don’t like this idea. Depp has the same weakness for whimsy as his sometimes collaborator Tim Burton. I suspect and fear that Depp would take the franchise back into campiness and thereby destroy it. I’m thinking Batman needs to stay as far away from Tim Burton and his camp as possible. (I also can’t imagine Hoffman delivering a non-campy performance.) [/QUOTE] I agree. Depp is just way too theatrical. Jack Sparrow, Willy Wonka, Sweeny Todd, etc. Very Broadwayish. I think Hoffman would be good except it would be just too similar to his MI:III bad guy. I don’t think he’s got a seperate bad guy in him. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2008, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnny-depp-to-play-the-riddler/458495/9 "2008-08-01T16:24:15Z")
> [@](#): > > Based on what he did as Jack Sparrow, which was great, I can see where people think he might work as the Riddler. I’d definitely give it a shot. But he didn’t impress me as Wonka or Sweeney Todd, so I do have some concerns. This brings up a question for me. IMO, both Depp and Carrey show (in their best dramatic roles) that they have the talent to be in consideration for a role in the next Batman movie. However, as you point out, some select (and recent) roles were less than stellar. Is that the fault of the actor, or the director? I think it takes a director with a clear vision, with a talent for communicating this vision to the cast, and motivating them into bringing out their acting chops to the fullest, that would make a Depp pick “not a bad one”. That said, hopefully a Riddler in the Dark Knight vision would not be as flamboyent as Carrey was made to play him in Batman & Robin. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2008, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnny-depp-to-play-the-riddler/458495/10 "2008-08-01T16:28:10Z")
Depp does have the ability to dial it back and play a role straight. I would point at _Donny Brasco_ as an example. ---
**Author:** ![randwill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a3d4f5/32.png) [@randwill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/randwill)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2008, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnny-depp-to-play-the-riddler/458495/11 "2008-08-01T16:29:58Z")
The Riddler? Catwoman? The Peguin? Geeze, been there, done that ever since the Batman TV show. Can’t we have some new or maybe even original villians in these movies? ---
**Author:** ![MrBelding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7feea3/32.png) [@MrBelding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrBelding)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2008, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnny-depp-to-play-the-riddler/458495/12 "2008-08-01T16:35:31Z")
I’m pretty sure what Nolan said in this interview rules out the Penguin. From 2006: [http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&ct=res&cd=1&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cinematical.com%2F2006%2F10%2F14%2Fchris-nolan-says-no-to-the-penguin%2F&ei=OzuTSLDJF6KOuwWzx5W\_Cg&usg=AFQjCNEA4FXX48C15HX0q2WbstW2G6djww&sig2=Psea1jqnQtqbhY-HR-ErYA](http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&ct=res&cd=1&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cinematical.com%2F2006%2F10%2F14%2Fchris-nolan-says-no-to-the-penguin%2F&ei=OzuTSLDJF6KOuwWzx5W_Cg&usg=AFQjCNEA4FXX48C15HX0q2WbstW2G6djww&sig2=Psea1jqnQtqbhY-HR-ErYA) ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2008, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnny-depp-to-play-the-riddler/458495/13 "2008-08-01T16:38:40Z")
[QUOTE=MrBelding] I’m pretty sure what Nolan said in this interview rules out the Penguin. From 2006: > **[Redirect Notice](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&ct=res&cd=1&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cinematical.com%2F2006%2F10%2F14%2Fchris-nolan-says-no-to-the-penguin%2F&ei=OzuTSLDJF6KOuwWzx5W_Cg&usg=AFQjCNEA4FXX48C15HX0q2WbstW2G6djww&sig2=Psea1jqnQtqbhY-HR-ErYA)** [/QUOTE] That was only about TDK, though. He didn’t rule it out for future movies. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2008, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnny-depp-to-play-the-riddler/458495/14 "2008-08-01T16:41:28Z")
[QUOTE=spoke-] I don’t like it. I like Depp, but I don’t like this idea. Depp has the same weakness for whimsy as his sometimes collaborator Tim Burton. I suspect and fear that Depp would take the franchise back into campiness and thereby destroy it. I’m thinking Batman needs to stay as far away from Tim Burton and his camp as possible. (I also can’t imagine Hoffman delivering a non-campy performance.) [/quote] My thoughts exactly on all three counts. This is going the way of “Batman Forever.” -FrL- ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2008, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnny-depp-to-play-the-riddler/458495/15 "2008-08-01T16:47:36Z")
I think we need new villians. And a movie with more than two viliians just gets convaluted and messy. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2008, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnny-depp-to-play-the-riddler/458495/16 "2008-08-01T16:49:39Z")
[QUOTE=randwill] The Riddler? Catwoman? The Peguin? Geeze, been there, done that ever since the Batman TV show. Can’t we have some new or maybe even original villians in these movies? [/QUOTE] Agree 100%. With most of these comic book movies they have 40, 50, 60+ years of source material and they keep going back to the same well. Origin stories. Recycled villains. Gimme a break. I would _love_ to see a villain done exclusively for a movie, if done right (as opposed to taking an existing villain and changing him for the movie.) Edit: And not every movie needs multiple villains. It usually just makes it overly complicated and robs screentime from the better villain. The only case I can think of where it worked was X-Men, but there are multiple X-Men so that makes sense. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Batman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/22d042/32.png) [@The\_Batman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Batman)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2008, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnny-depp-to-play-the-riddler/458495/17 "2008-08-01T17:12:06Z")
I agree that these three villains are overdone. There’s plenty of great minor villains in batman’s rogues gallery. As for the actors, I think Johnny Depp is gonna over do it of he gets picked for Riddler. He might be able to do straight serious movies but keep in mind that this is a serious _batman_ movie and he’s being sought to play The Riddler, too much camp potential and I just don’t trust him for it. Same for Angelina Jolie as Catwoman. She plays the same femme fatale in every action movie she’s in. There were better suggestions in that catwoman thread. And PSH as a villain? Maybe if he played some sort of Leonard Lake or John wayne Gacy psycho (of which there are plenty in the comics) than the aristocratic Penguin. I think people are just making rumors of good actors for the sake naming them. “How about that guy in the Capote movie? He’s fat.” “Your’e right! The Penguin!” ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2008, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnny-depp-to-play-the-riddler/458495/18 "2008-08-01T18:09:21Z")
[QUOTE=randwill] The Riddler? Catwoman? The Peguin? Geeze, been there, done that ever since the Batman TV show. Can’t we have some new or maybe even original villians in these movies? [/QUOTE] What are some lower-profile villians from the comics which could fit into the Bat-o-Nolan-Verse? [I don’t read same BTW] But pardon me for the following: isn’t the Riddler kind of a theatrical, vaudevillian, over-the-top kind of character anyway? I’m reading the Wikipedia entry on him and that’s always been the impression I’ve gotten. If so then yeah he may not fit into Nolan’s world either. _May._ ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2008, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnny-depp-to-play-the-riddler/458495/19 "2008-08-01T18:24:08Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Depp does have the ability to dial it back and play a role straight. I would point at _Donny Brasco_ as an example. [/QUOTE] That was 11 years ago, though. Eleven years before _Superman: The Movie_, one could have said the same of Marlon Brando, but the next year he made himself a whole new kind of legend with his _Apocalypse Now_ craziness. Can you point to something more recent to suggest that Depp can _still_ dial it back? ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2008, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnny-depp-to-play-the-riddler/458495/20 "2008-08-01T18:24:41Z")
[QUOTE=John DiFool] But pardon me for the following: isn’t the Riddler kind of a theatrical, vaudevillian, over-the-top kind of character anyway? I’m reading the Wikipedia entry on him and that’s always been the impression I’ve gotten. If so then yeah he may not fit into Nolan’s world either. _May._ [/QUOTE] Did you ever see Batman: The Animated Series? That’s how you do The Riddler. A serious businessman who treats his crimes (and life and death for that matter) as a series of puzzles and games. And if you refuse to play, bad things happen. [QUOTE=KneadToKnow] Can you point to something more recent to suggest that Depp can _still_ dial it back? [/QUOTE] Everything in the 2000s prior to the Pirates trilogy? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnny-depp-to-play-the-riddler/458495.md?page=2)