# Johnny Guitar (1954) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 24, 2004, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnny-guitar-1954/225863 "2004-01-24T18:33:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Ilsa\_Lund](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a6a055/32.png) [@Ilsa\_Lund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ilsa_Lund)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2004, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnny-guitar-1954/225863/1 "2004-01-24T18:33:46Z")
Why am I the only one starting these threads, **lissener**? šŸ™‚ A painstakingly choreographed ā€œwestern,ā€ this film is, as Scorcese put it; ā€œthe most operatic film in American Cinema.ā€ This is quite true. The entire film is pitched in a dramatic and the whole thing sweeps forward like a well choregraphed dance. What is captivating is how it juxtaposes the three main character sets in different operatic tones. The posse is very Wagnerian, but Vienna and Johnny swing wildly betwen Puccini and Mozartā€™s ā€œThe Magic Flute.ā€ Viennaā€™s aria at the piano in particular reminded me of the Queen Of The Night aria. The scenes between Johnny and Vienna, however, were shades of La Boheme. The catch for me, though, was that I _donā€™t like opera._ The film is pretty high on my Top 50, but as much as I admire the tone and beauty of the film, I couldnā€™t put it in my top ten. _The Big Sky_ occupies the ā€œWesternā€ slot there. It is much like watching a sunset. It is beautiful to behold, but one canā€™t really connect with it at a high level. ---
**Author:** ![Ilsa\_Lund](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a6a055/32.png) [@Ilsa\_Lund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ilsa_Lund)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2004, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnny-guitar-1954/225863/2 "2004-01-24T18:35:35Z")
Aaggh, preview is my friend. ā€œPitched in a dramatic _tone_.ā€ Also, **Eve** , I am siding with **lissener**. You are hereby commanded to sit through _Johnny Guitar_. šŸ™‚ ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2004, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnny-guitar-1954/225863/3 "2004-01-24T19:13:57Z")
Opera, schmopera šŸ™‚ I always thought this was intended as some sort of \* homage\* to German expressionist films, although Iā€™m not enough of a expert on the genre to speak with authority. I enjoyed its wildy over-the-top set and costume design, was thoroughly amused by the competition between Crawford and McCambridge to see who could chew the most scenery, and remain tickled by just how bent the sexual dynamics were among the main characters. It certainly is one of the most deeply weird movies I ever saw, and I like it well enough for that. Really, it should come off as completely silly (Johnny Guitar? The Dancinā€™ Kid? Surely the least macho names for a pair of desperadoes ever), but somehow doesnā€™t. A western? Yeah, well, there are horses and cowboy hats, but IMO the western trappings are just so much window dressing. Sterling Hayden is a vastly underappreciated actor, IMO. In this flick, as Johnny Clay in _The Killing_, Gen. Jack D. Ripper in _Doctor Strangelove_, and my personal fave, Roger Wade in _The Long Goodbye_; great performances all. End of consciousness stream. ---
**Author:** ![Ilsa\_Lund](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a6a055/32.png) [@Ilsa\_Lund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ilsa_Lund)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2004, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnny-guitar-1954/225863/4 "2004-01-24T19:46:41Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > Opera, schmopera šŸ™‚ I always thought this was intended as some sort of \* > homage\* to German expressionist films, although Iā€™m not enough of a expert on the genre to speak with authority. > > I enjoyed its wildy over-the-top set and costume design, was thoroughly amused by the competition between Crawford and McCambridge to see who could chew the most scenery, and remain tickled by just how bent the sexual dynamics were among the main characters. It certainly is one of the most deeply weird movies I ever saw, and I like it well enough for that. Really, it should come off as completely silly (Johnny Guitar? The Dancinā€™ Kid? Surely the least macho names for a pair of desperadoes ever), but somehow doesnā€™t. > > A western? Yeah, well, there are horses and cowboy hats, but IMO the western trappings are just so much window dressing. > > Sterling Hayden is a vastly underappreciated actor, IMO. In this flick, as Johnny Clay in _The Killing_, Gen. Jack D. Ripper in _Doctor Strangelove_, and my personal fave, Roger Wade in _The Long Goodbye_; great performances all. > > End of consciousness stream. I canā€™t see much German influence in the picture. The characterizations you are talking about _are_ opera. That is the _point_. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2004, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnny-guitar-1954/225863/5 "2004-01-24T22:19:45Z")
Ah, well, with that extra _emphasis_, I _understand_. I was referring more to the look of the film (at least the saloon set) than anything else. Opera fits well enough; Iā€™m not gonna argue about it. Re: the Expressionist angle, however, I could easily visualize Marlene Deitrich in the Crawford role. Or Madeleine Kahn. ---
**Author:** ![Ilsa\_Lund](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a6a055/32.png) [@Ilsa\_Lund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ilsa_Lund)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2004, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnny-guitar-1954/225863/6 "2004-01-24T22:40:44Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > Ah, well, with that extra _emphasis_, I _understand_. > > I was referring more to the look of the film (at least the saloon set) than anything else. Opera fits well enough; Iā€™m not gonna argue about it. Re: the Expressionist angle, however, I could easily visualize Marlene Deitrich in the Crawford role. Or Madeleine Kahn. Oh, I had forgotten about their starmaking performances in _Des Kabinett Der Doktor Kaligari_ and _Nosferatu, eine Symphonie Des Grauens_. šŸ˜‰ ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2004, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnny-guitar-1954/225863/7 "2004-01-25T19:17:02Z")
Um, Ilsa, I posted a paragraph each about like 12 or 15 movies in one thread, and received very little followup. So I donā€™t see that youā€™re the only one starting these topics. Anyway, Johnny Guitar is certainly operatic in tone and, well, milieu, pardon my french. The colors are as unnaturally heightened and stylized as the performances and the stage sets. Ray lends the whole operation a kind of stagey artificiality that works very well nowadays, for example, when Mamet employs a similar approach. See K Hepburn in Sylvia Scarlet for another successful example. Or My Own Private Idaho. By using this approach, Ray makes it clear that heā€™s not trying to make the viewer a fly on the wall at an actual, documentary occurrence: heā€™s _staging_ it, like itā€™s Shakespeare (or Puccini), which makes the context _part_ of the content. Heā€™s acknowledging and making use of the cliches of the Western, rather than ignoring them as most second-rate genre directors do, hoping the audience will just suspend that part of their disbelief on faith. Iā€™m not entirely sure why, unless itā€™s to juxtapose the surface (Western melodrama) with the subtext (McCarthyism). To emphasize the gulf between the two components of the film. Or maybe for some other reason. Or maybe just because heā€™s a visual and stylistic extremist, like Ken Russell or Cecil B. Demille. ---
**Author:** ![Ilsa\_Lund](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a6a055/32.png) [@Ilsa\_Lund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ilsa_Lund)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2004, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnny-guitar-1954/225863/8 "2004-01-25T19:30:12Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > Um, Ilsa, I posted a paragraph each about like 12 or 15 movies in one thread, and received very little followup. So I donā€™t see that youā€™re the only one starting these topics. > Iā€™m not entirely sure why, unless itā€™s to juxtapose the surface (Western melodrama) with the subtext (McCarthyism). To emphasize the gulf between the two components of the film. Or maybe for some other reason. Or maybe just because heā€™s a visual and stylistic extremist, like Ken Russell or Cecil B. Demille. Just kidding man, chill. šŸ™‚ I believe that it is to juxtapose the surface with the subtexts. That seems to be the whole point of the film, the juxtaposition of characters and their environment as well as the juxtaposition of appearance and reality (Like the introduction of Johnny himself, which was an interesting trick to play on the audience.) I donā€™t see much of a gulf between the two components, I see the film as almost a visual metaphor _for_ MCarthyism. ---
**Author:** ![Ilsa\_Lund](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a6a055/32.png) [@Ilsa\_Lund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ilsa_Lund)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2004, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnny-guitar-1954/225863/9 "2004-01-25T19:32:32Z")
Also, youā€™re needed in the ā€œMorons who wonā€™t see good filmsā€ Pit thread. All hands are needed on deck for Spielberg bashing. šŸ˜ƒ