# Johnny Hart wasn't exactly all that subtle was he? - Infamous menorah & cross strip **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 9, 2010, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnny-hart-wasnt-exactly-all-that-subtle-was-he-infamous-menorah-cross-strip/542546 "2010-06-09T15:44:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2010, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnny-hart-wasnt-exactly-all-that-subtle-was-he-infamous-menorah-cross-strip/542546/1 "2010-06-09T15:44:48Z")
Re [Johnny Hart](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnny_Hart) the creator o the comic “B.C.” re-found God in the late 70’s and his comics began to have a fair amount of overtly Christian themes, but I had no idea he had taken it [to this extreme.](http://www.tampabayprimer.org/index.cfm?action=articles&drill=viewArt&art=8) ---
**Author:** ![74westy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/74westy/32/3950_2.png) [@74westy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/74westy)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2010, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnny-hart-wasnt-exactly-all-that-subtle-was-he-infamous-menorah-cross-strip/542546/2 "2010-06-09T21:57:57Z")
Hart could be [quite subtle](http://wondermark.com/the-comic-strip-doctor-bc/) when defaming other religions. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2010, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnny-hart-wasnt-exactly-all-that-subtle-was-he-infamous-menorah-cross-strip/542546/3 "2010-06-09T22:17:53Z")
> [@74westy](#): > > Hart could be [quite subtle](http://wondermark.com/the-comic-strip-doctor-bc/) when defaming other religions. That’s not subtle either. ---
**Author:** ![Celyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9dc877/32.png) [@Celyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Celyn)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnny-hart-wasnt-exactly-all-that-subtle-was-he-infamous-menorah-cross-strip/542546/4 "2010-06-10T00:58:32Z")
Wow. Both of those seem a bit nasty. :eek: And I somehow managed only to see the name “Hart” at first, and thought it would be amusing the cute plasticine man “Morph”. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnny-hart-wasnt-exactly-all-that-subtle-was-he-infamous-menorah-cross-strip/542546/5 "2010-06-10T01:06:47Z")
> [@astro](#): > > Re [Johnny Hart](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnny_Hart) the creator o the comic “B.C.” re-found God in the late 70’s and his comics began to have a fair amount of overtly Christian themes, but I had no idea he had taken it [to this extreme.](http://www.tampabayprimer.org/index.cfm?action=articles&drill=viewArt&art=8) You evidently missed good threads about this at the time. I think some of that is gone, as we had another server. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnny-hart-wasnt-exactly-all-that-subtle-was-he-infamous-menorah-cross-strip/542546/6 "2010-06-10T01:11:59Z")
I don’t really get either of them. Can someone explain? I get that it’s a menorah, but why? ---
**Author:** ![Tanaqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3bc359/32.png) [@Tanaqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tanaqui)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnny-hart-wasnt-exactly-all-that-subtle-was-he-infamous-menorah-cross-strip/542546/7 "2010-06-10T01:36:08Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > I don’t really get either of them. Can someone explain? > > I get that it’s a menorah, but why? Can you see the whole comic? It changes into a cross. While the text refers explicitly to the crucifixion of Jesus. Which has often been used as an excuse to persecute “the Jews” by anti-Semites. There’s nothing to “get” if by “get” you mean a joke. It’s just a nasty little piece of Christian propaganda. The same thing goes for the other strip–the outhouse has a crescent moon on it. The crescent moon is a symbol of Islam. Haha, Islam is stinky!! Either that or it’s the worst joke in the history of jokes. There’s nothing deeper to it than that. The man is a moron. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnny-hart-wasnt-exactly-all-that-subtle-was-he-infamous-menorah-cross-strip/542546/8 "2010-06-10T03:46:25Z")
Was. Virtually none of that nonsense has shown up since JH’s death (including that Anno Domine character). ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnny-hart-wasnt-exactly-all-that-subtle-was-he-infamous-menorah-cross-strip/542546/9 "2010-06-10T03:58:09Z")
> [@Tanaqui](#): > > Can you see the whole comic? It changes into a cross. While the text refers explicitly to the crucifixion of Jesus. Which has often been used as an excuse to persecute “the Jews” by anti-Semites. There’s nothing to “get” if by “get” you mean a joke. It’s just a nasty little piece of Christian propaganda. The same thing goes for the other strip–the outhouse has a crescent moon on it. The crescent moon is a symbol of Islam. Haha, Islam is stinky!! Either that or it’s the worst joke in the history of jokes. There’s nothing deeper to it than that. The man is a moron. Oh okay. For some reason I didn’t get that it was a menorah turning into a cross. I just kept thinking what does Hanukkah have to do with Jesus dying…like was this some kind of warning? I suspected that was what the second one was about but that just seemed too ridiculously simple. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnny-hart-wasnt-exactly-all-that-subtle-was-he-infamous-menorah-cross-strip/542546/10 "2010-06-10T04:36:22Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > I just kept thinking what does Hanukkah have to do with Jesus dying…? A Hanukkah menorah has 9 candles; The generic all-purpose Jewish menorah has 7. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 9:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnny-hart-wasnt-exactly-all-that-subtle-was-he-infamous-menorah-cross-strip/542546/11 "2010-06-10T09:05:28Z")
> [@Tanaqui](#): > > Can you see the whole comic? It changes into a cross. While the text refers explicitly to the crucifixion of Jesus. Yeah, I can see that, but … > [@](#): > > Which has often been used as an excuse to persecute “the Jews” by anti-Semites. There’s nothing to “get” if by “get” you mean a joke. It’s just a nasty little piece of Christian propaganda. Christian propaganda, yes, but why “nasty?” How exactly is that an attack on the Jews? > [@](#): > > The same thing goes for the other strip–the outhouse has a crescent moon on it. The crescent moon is a symbol of Islam. Haha, Islam is stinky!! Either that or it’s the worst joke in the history of jokes. There’s nothing deeper to it than that. The man is a moron. And this is even more of a stretch. I don’t think that “slam = Islam” was deliberate. I see nothing more than a weak joke there. And he certainly told a lot of weak jokes. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnny-hart-wasnt-exactly-all-that-subtle-was-he-infamous-menorah-cross-strip/542546/12 "2010-06-10T12:26:48Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > Christian propaganda, yes, but why “nasty?” How exactly is that an attack on the Jews? There’s two interpretations of that strip, both reasonable IMHO. The “innocent” view is that Christianity is a continuing of God’s Revelation begun in Judaism. The “nasty/attack” view is that Christianity is the replacement of Judaism & that C’s triumph is in J’s extinction. I’m sure Hart did not intend the latter but I gotta admit that it’s not a stretch to interpret it that way. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnny-hart-wasnt-exactly-all-that-subtle-was-he-infamous-menorah-cross-strip/542546/13 "2010-06-10T12:39:56Z")
Hart _used_ to be subtle. I’ve been re-reading his old strips just last night, and remembering why I loved them. Before he git ultra-Christian, his stuff ran the gamut from blatantly stupid and silly to nuanced and witty. Looking at his late career, it’s hard to believe that he and his cohorts used to compose strips by sitting around with a six-pack of beer and tossing ideas back and forth (as related in **Backstage at the Strips**.) ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_A.Robrin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sam_a.robrin/32/14497_2.png) [@Sam\_A.Robrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_A.Robrin)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnny-hart-wasnt-exactly-all-that-subtle-was-he-infamous-menorah-cross-strip/542546/14 "2010-06-10T13:58:21Z")
I think the outhouse joke was just another example of schoolboy bathroom humor. Outhouses have traditionally had moons carved into them (at least in comic strips), with no intended reference to Islam, for decades, and to suddenly attribute bigotry to that is to ignore that “Sometimes the cigar is just a cigar.” Like just about all religious references, the “menorah” sequence can be interpreted in a number of ways, depending on whether the reader wants to see inspiration, or gets off on the power-trip that getting offended came to entitle him to in the wake of the civil rights movement. I take some offense at it myself, but more because I believe in the separation of church and strip, so to speak. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnny-hart-wasnt-exactly-all-that-subtle-was-he-infamous-menorah-cross-strip/542546/15 "2010-06-10T14:12:51Z")
One facet of the strip which stands out for me, and which hasn’t been mentioned is that the first panel contains the words “Forgive them, Father, for they know not what they do” transposed over a Menorrah. That’s either stunningly oblivious or an intentional allusion to Jews as “Christ killers.” I wouldn’t surprise me if Hart did not think of the strip as anti-Jewish, though. The chauvinism of fundy Christianity is so ingrained and unconscious that they often don’t even know they’re doing it. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnny-hart-wasnt-exactly-all-that-subtle-was-he-infamous-menorah-cross-strip/542546/16 "2010-06-10T14:23:01Z")
> [@Sam\_A.Robrin](#): > > I think the outhouse joke was just another example of schoolboy bathroom humor. Outhouses have traditionally had moons carved into them (at least in comic strips), with no intended reference to Islam, for decades, and to suddenly attribute bigotry to that is to ignore that “Sometimes the cigar is just a cigar.” I might agree, but the SLAM is too ostentatious to be written off as a mere sound effect. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnny-hart-wasnt-exactly-all-that-subtle-was-he-infamous-menorah-cross-strip/542546/17 "2010-06-10T14:32:17Z")
Well the title of the strip is “The last seven words of Jesus” and “Forgive them…” is the first of those quotations; I don’t think JH intended to direct that at Jews in general. But I do think, in whole, the strip showed remarkable poor taste. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnny-hart-wasnt-exactly-all-that-subtle-was-he-infamous-menorah-cross-strip/542546/18 "2010-06-10T14:56:47Z")
Especially considering that the “them” referred to in the quote were the Romans. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnny-hart-wasnt-exactly-all-that-subtle-was-he-infamous-menorah-cross-strip/542546/19 "2010-06-10T15:04:47Z")
Then why superimpose it over a menorrah? It’s beside the point that Hart was not accurate. Associating the menorrah with Passover is not accurate either. By having the menorrah be _destroyed_, piece by piece, as Jesus dies, and then replaced with a cross and tomb, it’s hard to defend the idea that he intended the images or religions to be presented as coequal or coexistent. He was replacing the one with the other. He was mindless enough not to think it was offensive, though. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnny-hart-wasnt-exactly-all-that-subtle-was-he-infamous-menorah-cross-strip/542546/20 "2010-06-10T15:26:16Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Then why superimpose it over a menorrah? I think the idea is that by showing a Jewish symbol turning into a Christian one it just recognises that Christianity has it’s roots in Judaism. I can believe that he intended it to be respectful. It is possible that he misunderstood the meaning of the menorah, and the passover. I’ll have to take your word for that. But I was always taught that the Last Supper was a Passover meal. > [@](#): > > By having the menorrah be destroyed, piece by piece, … It isn’t. It’s just seven flames that go out, one by one. No part of it is damaged. And then it segues into a cross that \*resembles \*the cross-piece of the menorah. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnny-hart-wasnt-exactly-all-that-subtle-was-he-infamous-menorah-cross-strip/542546.md?page=2)