# Johnny Hart wasn't exactly all that subtle was he? - Infamous menorah & cross strip **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 9, 2010, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnny-hart-wasnt-exactly-all-that-subtle-was-he-infamous-menorah-cross-strip/542546 "2010-06-09T15:44:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![postcards](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8e8cbc/32.png) [@postcards](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/postcards)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnny-hart-wasnt-exactly-all-that-subtle-was-he-infamous-menorah-cross-strip/542546/21 "2010-06-10T15:38:16Z")
[Dan Piraro](http://blog.cagle.com/greenberg/files/2010/06/bizarro-bc.jpg) has a good take on B.C. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnny-hart-wasnt-exactly-all-that-subtle-was-he-infamous-menorah-cross-strip/542546/22 "2010-06-10T15:40:44Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > I might agree, but the SLAM is too ostentatious to be written off as a mere sound effect. As much as I dislike JH, I can’t buy this. He used that type of effect elsewhere. I think that strip is innocent (and not funny). ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnny-hart-wasnt-exactly-all-that-subtle-was-he-infamous-menorah-cross-strip/542546/23 "2010-06-10T16:03:28Z")
> [@74westy](#): > > Hart could be [quite subtle](http://wondermark.com/the-comic-strip-doctor-bc/) when defaming other religions. I’d have to vote that that’s reading way too much into it. An outhouse has a crescent moon on it 90% of the time in fiction, and 100% of the time when an outhouse is used in fiction its for humorous purposes. Why presume that Mr. Hart intended something different from every other author in the history of slapstick? It smells. Well duh! That’s the joke. If you were 3 years old, you’d probably think it was hysterical. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnny-hart-wasnt-exactly-all-that-subtle-was-he-infamous-menorah-cross-strip/542546/24 "2010-06-10T16:08:15Z")
> [@postcards](#): > > [Dan Piraro](http://blog.cagle.com/greenberg/files/2010/06/bizarro-bc.jpg) has a good take on B.C. I believe that Hart actually addressed this point, indicating that he had come to see his cavemen not as prehistorical but as post-nuclear war survivors. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnny-hart-wasnt-exactly-all-that-subtle-was-he-infamous-menorah-cross-strip/542546/25 "2010-06-10T16:56:09Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > As much as I dislike JH, I can’t buy this. He used that type of effect elsewhere. I think that strip is innocent (and not funny). You should read some of the interviews with him late in his life. He was quite rabid - even talking about how his mother was going to hell because she didn’t believe strongly enough, IIRC. Many papers, including the Mercury News, dropped BC because of this clear bigotry. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnny-hart-wasnt-exactly-all-that-subtle-was-he-infamous-menorah-cross-strip/542546/26 "2010-06-10T17:01:08Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > There’s two interpretations of that strip, both reasonable IMHO. > > The “innocent” view is that Christianity is a continuing of God’s Revelation begun in Judaism. That’s how I read it, and I’m not religious. But I suppose I could see the other reading. As for the outhouse one, I think it’s a stretch to consider that to be a slam on Islam. If it is, it’s really, really subtle. ---
**Author:** ![DChord568](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@DChord568](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DChord568)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnny-hart-wasnt-exactly-all-that-subtle-was-he-infamous-menorah-cross-strip/542546/27 "2010-06-10T17:27:03Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Then why superimpose it over a menorrah? > > It’s beside the point that Hart was not accurate. Associating the menorrah with Passover is not accurate either. > > By having the menorrah be _destroyed_, piece by piece, as Jesus dies, and then replaced with a cross and tomb, it’s hard to defend the idea that he intended the images or religions to be presented as coequal or coexistent. He was replacing the one with the other. He was mindless enough not to think it was offensive, though. I wasn’t here at the time the strip was published, so I don’t know the various interpretations that were bandied about. But I sure do remember seeing it in my Sunday paper. My interpretation was the same as yours, and I was outraged by it. (For the record, I’m not Jewish.) Of course, when I brought it up to my Catholic cousin, just as you say, she couldn’t see why it should be offensive. I eventually stopped reading _B.C._ because of this and other examples of brute proselytizing…and also because Hart was so busy doing this that he forgot to be funny. It’s true that his replacement has knocked this stuff off, but he too rarely gives me any reason to laugh. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnny-hart-wasnt-exactly-all-that-subtle-was-he-infamous-menorah-cross-strip/542546/28 "2010-06-10T17:59:45Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > You should read some of the interviews with him late in his life. He was quite rabid - even talking about how his mother was going to hell because she didn’t believe strongly enough, IIRC. Many papers, including the Mercury News, dropped BC because of this clear bigotry. I understand all that, but he also wrote many stupid and innocent comic strips. I think that this particular one is not anti-Muslim. I completely agree that other strips were anti-Semitic and a host of other stupid things. Sometimes and outhouse is just an outhouse. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnny-hart-wasnt-exactly-all-that-subtle-was-he-infamous-menorah-cross-strip/542546/29 "2010-06-10T18:27:02Z")
SLAM is written in the interior of a giant I. Look at it again. He was insulting Islam and screwing with his editors. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnny-hart-wasnt-exactly-all-that-subtle-was-he-infamous-menorah-cross-strip/542546/30 "2010-06-10T19:01:39Z")
I’ve never understood the ‘Christ Killer’ animosity towards Jews. Isn’t the death of Christ the fundamental point of the religion? What would have happened if Christ wasn’t killed? Wouldn’t that mean he didn’t die for the sins of Man? Wouldn’t everyone be going to Hell then? Looks to me like the Jews did the Christians a huge favor. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnny-hart-wasnt-exactly-all-that-subtle-was-he-infamous-menorah-cross-strip/542546/31 "2010-06-10T19:02:45Z")
The menorah association is just so weird, though. I could see if it was just a passover thing but the menorah is only associated with Hanukkah…right? It’s just weird. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnny-hart-wasnt-exactly-all-that-subtle-was-he-infamous-menorah-cross-strip/542546/32 "2010-06-10T19:07:16Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > SLAM is written in the interior of a giant I. Look at it again. He was insulting Islam and screwing with his editors. Or not. That, IMO, is a fairly stretched way of interpreting that particular sound effect, especially one that is fairly standard and innocuous otherwise. You can interpret it that way, but I think it would be a mistake. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnny-hart-wasnt-exactly-all-that-subtle-was-he-infamous-menorah-cross-strip/542546/33 "2010-06-10T19:09:18Z")
> [@](#): > > The menorah association is just so weird, though. I could see if it was just a passover thing but the menorah is only associated with Hanukkah…right? IIRC, the strip originally ran in December, the month of Hannukah and of Christmas. Most Christians don’t make a big deal of the crucifix at Christmas, but some do, especially if they’re trying to make a point. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnny-hart-wasnt-exactly-all-that-subtle-was-he-infamous-menorah-cross-strip/542546/34 "2010-06-10T19:19:51Z")
No, it ran at Easter, and Hart specifically called the menorrah “a symbol of Passover,” which it isn’t. At all. It was like using a Christmas tree as a symbol of Easter. ---
**Author:** ![Katriona](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/katriona/32/113_2.png) [@Katriona](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Katriona)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnny-hart-wasnt-exactly-all-that-subtle-was-he-infamous-menorah-cross-strip/542546/35 "2010-06-10T19:24:33Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > IIRC, the strip originally ran in December, the month of Hannukah and of Christmas. Most Christians don’t make a big deal of the crucifix at Christmas, but some do, especially if they’re trying to make a point. It was his Easter strip that year. He probably used the Menorah just because it’s a well-known symbol. ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnny-hart-wasnt-exactly-all-that-subtle-was-he-infamous-menorah-cross-strip/542546/36 "2010-06-10T19:30:23Z")
Note in the linked article that he also said _bread_ was a symbol of Passover! Massive bigotry fail!!! ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnny-hart-wasnt-exactly-all-that-subtle-was-he-infamous-menorah-cross-strip/542546/37 "2010-06-10T19:34:09Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > No, it ran at Easter, and Hart specifically called the menorrah “a symbol of Passover,” which it isn’t. At all. > > It was like using a Christmas tree as a symbol of Easter. To me that reads like it’s just using a Jewish symbol for the sake of using it, then. Or rather for the sake of putting it down. Like if there was some tie in with the Last Supper/Passover thing, that might be sort of interesting. But as it is…not really. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnny-hart-wasnt-exactly-all-that-subtle-was-he-infamous-menorah-cross-strip/542546/38 "2010-06-10T19:34:41Z")
[Dog whistle](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog-whistle_politics) A figure of speech or imagery intended to send a message to a certain segment of people, and be ignored by others (or at least provide deniability if others detect a message). ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnny-hart-wasnt-exactly-all-that-subtle-was-he-infamous-menorah-cross-strip/542546/39 "2010-06-10T19:56:35Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > That’s how I read it, and I’m not religious. But I suppose I could see the other reading. > > As for the outhouse one, I think it’s a stretch to consider that to be a slam on Islam. If it is, it’s really, really subtle. And towards the end, Hart was anything but subtle. Team Stupid Joke. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnny-hart-wasnt-exactly-all-that-subtle-was-he-infamous-menorah-cross-strip/542546/40 "2010-06-10T20:53:54Z")
Both of those strips go pretty far in validating the [universal comic punchline](http://www.robertsinclair.net/comic/asshole.html) theory. Edit: The Piraro one works, too. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnny-hart-wasnt-exactly-all-that-subtle-was-he-infamous-menorah-cross-strip/542546.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnny-hart-wasnt-exactly-all-that-subtle-was-he-infamous-menorah-cross-strip/542546.md?page=3)