# Johnny Hart's B.C. comicstrip does it again **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 8, 2003, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnny-harts-b-c-comicstrip-does-it-again/217697 "2003-12-08T05:11:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2003, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnny-harts-b-c-comicstrip-does-it-again/217697/141 "2003-12-10T00:55:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by BrandyFine \* > \*\*I realize you didn’t claim he lied about it, LHoD did. However finding it offensive is your issue. Don’t read it then (as I’m sure you don’t.) I would also suggest not reading the new testament or consorting with Jews for Jesus, as you would find both of those highly offensive for the same reason. It reminds me of the fellow on a previous page who was quoted as saying the strip about Paul and email was offensive to him “becuase it is religious.” Well, you gotta admit he was honest heh. \*\* Excuse me, is this a thread about Johnny Hart or isn’t it? The point was made that Hart once did another cartoon that was insulting to Judaism. This lends credibility to the argument that the outhouse strip may have been a veiled slap at Islam. I was pointing out that Hart’s own explanation of the Mennorah strip was still insulting. These are all valid points of discussion in this thread and I was not simply posting offense to something i didn’t like. Jews for Jesus are _Christians_, btw, not Jews. Southern Baptists to be exact. ---
**Author:** ![FabioClone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5f8ce5/32.png) [@FabioClone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FabioClone)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2003, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnny-harts-b-c-comicstrip-does-it-again/217697/142 "2003-12-10T01:09:26Z")
I think Hart is merely following the ancient axiom: “If the ladies don’t find you funny, you should at least be offensive.” That being said, I think it’s about time Johnny got the wake-up call. When your comic is so bad that people become offended by it, I would say it’s time to call it quits. ---
**Author:** ![Super\_Gnat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Super\_Gnat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Super_Gnat)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2003, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnny-harts-b-c-comicstrip-does-it-again/217697/143 "2003-12-10T01:31:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > \*\*Excuse me, is this a thread about Johnny Hart or isn’t it? The point was made that Hart once did another cartoon that was insulting to Judaism. This lends credibility to the argument that the outhouse strip may have been a veiled slap at Islam. \*\* No, it does not. Since he has been open about his religious comics before, why would he feel the need to make a disguised religious one now? You say the menorah-to-crucifix thing was insulting, so that means he must be insulting now. However, you’re forgetting that _he_ didn’t think that comic was insulting, and in fact was very open about his meaning. He may have been horribly wrong, but he wasn’t lying. So why would he lie about something like that now? ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2003, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnny-harts-b-c-comicstrip-does-it-again/217697/144 "2003-12-10T01:40:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gex gex \* > \*\*… (although I find the anti-intellectualism displayed by **Airman Doors** in this thread to be mind-blowingly idiotic). \*\* What is Anti-Intellectualism? Is that where I dare to disagree with someone who has a very highly thought of degree, or has some special credentials that I don’t? How dare I disagree. I mean, they’re clearly so much more wise and intelligent than I am. Is that how it goes? ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2003, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnny-harts-b-c-comicstrip-does-it-again/217697/145 "2003-12-10T01:42:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > \*\*Um…no it isn’t. > > Judaism is the fulfillment of Judaism. That is, Judaism is fulfilled by keeping Jewish law. Christian doctrine is that it is inherently impossible for humans to be righteous by their own actions so a _new_ covenant was made through the sacrifice of Jesus. Christianity is not a “fulfillment” of Judaism in the sense that Judaism was just some sort of structured prelude to Christianity. Christianity is a _replacement_ for Judaism. As such, Judaism is not and cannot be fulfilled by Christian practice (that is, the keeping of Mosaic law cannot be fulfilled by worshipping Jesus).\*\* Um…yes it is, according to many Christians’ beliefs. Practicing Christianity will fulfill Mosaic law, according to this belief system. Christ is viewed (by Christians) as the ultimate fulfillment of the [Old Testament convenant with the Jews:](http://icu.catholicity.com/c03712.htm) > [@](#): > > \*\*St. Thomas Aquinas spoke of the connection between Christ’s salvation and his fulfillment of the three parts of the Law of Moses in his Summa theologiae. > > Christ comes as the priest, prophet and king. As priest, he fulfills the ceremonial laws because he is the perfect sacrifice to which all of the other sacrifices pointed. As prophet he fulfills the moral law since he is the just man who teaches the true law. As king, he fulfills the judicial law by establishing a people who were made righteous by him. Thus to speak of the Old Law being fulfilled does not mean that the Old Law is revoked. Instead, the Old Law is completed, because all of its aims are fulfilled in Christ who continues to reign as priest, prophet and king. \*\*Certainly Jews don’t believe this, and decent people respect that belief. That doesn’t make the very thought offensive, any more than is the Jewish belief that Christ is not divine. This statement–“He clearly meant it to say that Christianity is the fulfillment of Judaism”–in itself and without further qualification, is offensive only to those working strenuously to find offense or to those who find Christianity fundamentally offensive. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2003, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnny-harts-b-c-comicstrip-does-it-again/217697/146 "2003-12-10T01:47:35Z")
I didn’t _say_ he lied. I didn’t even say the outhouse cartoon was a slap at Islam. I said it _might_ be. He has made insensitive statements about other religions before so I was saying that it wasn’t beyond the realm of possibility that the outhouse thing was deliberate. It would not be out of character for him. that’s all I meant. as for the “He-was-telling-the-truth-then-so-why-would-he-lie-now?” defense. I have to say that I find that a little bit specious. Do people have to be either consistently honest or dishonest? Maybe he just didn’t want the shitstorm that would come his way if he copped to dissing Islam. I actually think that in his mind he wasn’t _deliberately_ insulting Judaism with the menorah strip, just being insensitive and smug. This time he _may_ have been deliberately insulting Islam and doesn’t want to answer for it. I’m not saying that’s the case, but it’s not _impossible_ is it? ---
**Author:** ![Sofa\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/58956e/32.png) [@Sofa\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sofa_King)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2003, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnny-harts-b-c-comicstrip-does-it-again/217697/147 "2003-12-10T01:55:55Z")
Okay, forgive me of skipping page 2 of this thread, and sorry if I am repeating someone else’s thought. The motifs used in that strip looked quite familiar to me, because I read B.C. for years until I got tired of it. Hart uses the “outhouse” scene a lot–a couple of times a year, I think. Sort of like Charlie Brown and the kite gag. So, indignant people out there, if you want to prove your case I recommend this. Pick up one of his books and go through it looking for Hart’s “outhouse jokes.” There’s gotta be dozens of 'em. Take a look at them and tell us if you see anything else interesting. Until then, I think you guys are a bunch of loons. That strip is perfectly in keeping with the lower-than-a-maggot’s-dick sort of humor to which Hart regularly retreats. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2003, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnny-harts-b-c-comicstrip-does-it-again/217697/148 "2003-12-10T01:57:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Stratocaster \* > \*\*Um…yes it is, according to many Christians’ beliefs. Practicing Christianity will fulfill Mosaic law, according to this belief system. Christ is viewed (by Christians) as the ultimate fulfillment of the [Old Testament convenant with the Jews:](http://icu.catholicity.com/c03712.htm)\*\*Certainly Jews don’t believe this, and decent people respect that belief. That doesn’t make the very thought offensive, any more than is the Jewish belief that Christ is not divine. This statement–“He clearly meant it to say that Christianity is the fulfillment of Judaism”–in itself and without further qualification, is offensive only to those working strenuously to find offense or to those who find Christianity fundamentally offensive. \*\* Aquinas was not the arbiter of Christian doctrine. He was just spouting his own opinion. Aquinas’ ravings are not “standard” doctrine. it may interset you to know that much of mainstream Christianity, including the RCC, do _not_ believe that Judaism is unfulfilled without Christ but that it a separate covenant. Deliberately drawing a menorah morphing into a crucifix is pissing all over Judaism. It implies that the menorah, that _Judaism_ is not good enough all by itself ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2003, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnny-harts-b-c-comicstrip-does-it-again/217697/149 "2003-12-10T02:04:18Z")
Just to make it very clear. I think there’s about a 99% chance that it was just an unfunny gag with a 1% chance that it was a dig at Islam. The fact that some of his peers think the latter is what gives me that slight pause. ---
**Author:** ![Beagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Beagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beagle)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2003, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnny-harts-b-c-comicstrip-does-it-again/217697/150 "2003-12-10T02:06:46Z")
Mrs. Beagle views the strip, internalized it, projected our concerns on it, and concluded: “dogs farting?” Or, as I learned in college: “Art is experience.” Hope that helps. Maybe the strip is a test of how much you are affected by symbolism. It’s _clearly symbolic_ (oxymoron?) of Islam. The more I look at it and examine it the more I seem convinced that the Islamic meaning was intended. Paralysis by overanalysis? I’m beginning to think so. As someone noted earlier, the cresent moon is not only througout BC comics, but all comics. It’s one symbol for night. Sadly, Hart needs the Islamic insult for most people to get – any – joke within the strip itself, also noted by others. He’s truly screwed either way. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2003, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnny-harts-b-c-comicstrip-does-it-again/217697/151 "2003-12-10T02:16:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sofa King \* > **So, indignant people out there, if you want to prove your case I recommend this. Pick up one of his books and go through it looking for Hart’s “outhouse jokes.” There’s gotta be dozens of 'em. Take a look at them and tell us if you see anything else interesting.** Already did, no outhouse jokes to be found. Could be that my books are too old. ---
**Author:** ![Sofa\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/58956e/32.png) [@Sofa\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sofa_King)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2003, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnny-harts-b-c-comicstrip-does-it-again/217697/152 "2003-12-10T02:18:12Z")
…But just in case you want something to start with, I offer: [11-13](http://www.comics.com/creators/bc/archive/bc-20031113.html). Wiley’s Dictionary. Slander: A think lie. [11-27](http://www.comics.com/creators/bc/archive/bc-20031127.html). Today we should pause and share with one another those special things for which we are thankful. …Like, say… freedom of speech. [12-03](http://www.comics.com/creators/bc/archive/bc-20031203.html). “Did you get a gift from your little buddy this year?” “He only sent a card this year, so I threw him in the dungeon.” “What’s wrong with a card?” “It had a picture of “[Baghdad Bob](http://politicalhumor.about.com/library/jokes/bljoke-iraqinfominister.htm)” on it.” [12-08](http://www.comics.com/creators/bc/archive/bc-20031208.html) Wham! (And, I note, Grog [needs a shave](http://www.wmmx.com/george%20michael.jpg). Is this a slur against ambiguously gay bubblegum bands? An incitement to violence against the phallic serpent of evil homosexuality? Fuck, no. It’s a stupid comic!) ---
**Author:** ![Sofa\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/58956e/32.png) [@Sofa\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sofa_King)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2003, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnny-harts-b-c-comicstrip-does-it-again/217697/153 "2003-12-10T02:18:35Z")
…But just in case you want something to start with, I offer: [11-13](http://www.comics.com/creators/bc/archive/bc-20031113.html). Wiley’s Dictionary. Slander: A thin lie. [11-27](http://www.comics.com/creators/bc/archive/bc-20031127.html). Today we should pause and share with one another those special things for which we are thankful. …Like, say… freedom of speech. [12-03](http://www.comics.com/creators/bc/archive/bc-20031203.html). “Did you get a gift from your little buddy this year?” “He only sent a card this year, so I threw him in the dungeon.” “What’s wrong with a card?” “It had a picture of “[Baghdad Bob](http://politicalhumor.about.com/library/jokes/bljoke-iraqinfominister.htm)” on it.” [12-08](http://www.comics.com/creators/bc/archive/bc-20031208.html) Wham! (And, I note, Grog [needs a shave](http://www.wmmx.com/george%20michael.jpg). Is this a slur against ambiguously gay bubblegum bands? An incitement to violence against the phallic serpent of evil homosexuality? Fuck, no. It’s a stupid comic!) ---
**Author:** ![Beagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Beagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beagle)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2003, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnny-harts-b-c-comicstrip-does-it-again/217697/154 "2003-12-10T02:21:41Z")
This is the guy that does a few weeks on golf around the “BC Open.” Or he used to. Cryptically unfunny humor, IIRC, is pretty common. ---
**Author:** ![Sofa\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/58956e/32.png) [@Sofa\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sofa_King)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2003, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnny-harts-b-c-comicstrip-does-it-again/217697/155 "2003-12-10T02:22:29Z")
**Jeff** , I swear he did a bunch of outhouse jokes, but I’m afraid I’m not going to devote any more time to finding them. I swear it because when I was about five years old in the 1970s and my father was reading the funnies with me, my father had to explain to me what that funny house with the moon on the door was. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2003, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnny-harts-b-c-comicstrip-does-it-again/217697/156 "2003-12-10T02:23:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > \*\*Aquinas was not the arbiter of Christian doctrine. He was just spouting his own opinion. Aquinas’ ravings are not “standard” doctrine. it may interset you to know that much of mainstream Christianity, including the RCC, do _not_ believe that Judaism is unfulfilled without Christ but that it a separate covenant. > > Deliberately drawing a menorah morphing into a crucifix is pissing all over Judaism. It implies that the menorah, that _Judaism_ is not good enough all by itself \*\* Perhaps, but that’s not what you said, and that’s not what I reacted to. Shodan said this: > [@](#): > > \*\*Hart did not lie about the intent of the menorah comic. He clearly meant it to say that Christianity is the fulfillment of Judaism. \*\*…to which you replied… > [@](#): > > \*\*That, _in itself_, is an offensive statement. (emphasis added) \*\*Regardless of your opinion of Aquinas, I think you’re straining. Certainly the RCC teaches of Christ’s new covenant. Read [this cite](http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08399a.htm), for example: > [@](#): > > \*\*Jesus did not come to destroy the Law or the Prophets, that is those sacred writings which He, no less than His Jewish contemporaries, distinctly recognized as inspired by the Holy Spirit; His mission, on the contrary, was to secure their fulfilment. Indeed, He would have destroyed the Law, if He had sided with the Scribes and the Pharisees who had raised a fence to the Law, which actually encroached upon the sacred territory of the Law itself; but He fulfilled it by proclaiming the new Law of perfect love of God and man, whereby all the precepts of the Old Law were brought to completion. \*\*Yes, it’s a new covenant. And yes, Christ fulfills and perfects the Old Law. The two are not contradictory. I repeat, that statement you reacted to, in itself, is offensive only if you work very hard to find offense or if you find much of basic Christian doctrine fundamentally offensive. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2003, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnny-harts-b-c-comicstrip-does-it-again/217697/157 "2003-12-10T02:26:03Z")
> [@](#): > > _TwistofFate said:_ > Oy Vey. That’s a nasty, not to say stupid, jab. plenty of people find meaning in the words of the bible, because there is a meaning there. Your right it was overly nasty, just couldn’t resist a zinger. Apologies. Also the authors of the bible could write cryptic circles aroung Hart. Can’t agree with stupid; attributing secret deep meanings to the bible takes far too much credulance for me to accept. It does have “meaning” as a set of morality codes/stories. re the comic: pretty much what **DtC** said last post. I seem to remember in another B.C. bashing thread I counted up the specific bible refs in a month, something like 1/week. I’ll try a search if hammy’s up to it. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2003, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnny-harts-b-c-comicstrip-does-it-again/217697/158 "2003-12-10T02:55:03Z")
> [@](#): > > Yes, it’s a new covenant. And yes, Christ fulfills and perfects the Old Law. The two are not contradictory. I repeat, that statement you reacted to, in itself, is offensive only if you work very hard to find offense or if you find much of basic Christian doctrine fundamentally offensive. Hey, I just read your sig and figured out you were **Bob Cos**. Do you play guitar? Maybe this is semantic hair splitting but what I object to is the implication that Judaism is incomplete _without_ Christianity. I think that the image of the menorah disappearing into the image of a crucifix implies that the menorah has become obsolete. It implies that Judaism has now become _invalid_. That is _not_ standard doctrine and that is what bothered me. I don’t think it’s hate speech but I think it shows an insensitivity on Hart’s part and he clearly doesn’t get it if he thinks it was a _compliment_ to Judaism. I am _not_ trying to find offense with Christianity. I just think that it was gratuitous for Hart to show Judaism being subordinated to Christianity. Again, it wasn’t hate speech, just sort of obnoxious. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2003, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnny-harts-b-c-comicstrip-does-it-again/217697/159 "2003-12-10T03:35:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sofa King \* > \*\*I swear it because when I was about five years old in the 1970s and my father was reading the funnies with me, my father had to explain to me what that funny house with the moon on the door was. \*\* 1970s? That would explain it, only one of my books is from the '70s. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2003, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnny-harts-b-c-comicstrip-does-it-again/217697/160 "2003-12-10T08:30:30Z")
Can we all just agree Johnny Hart is a weenie and be done with this? No offense, but why are we going on _four pages_ about this one pathetic strip? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnny-harts-b-c-comicstrip-does-it-again/217697.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnny-harts-b-c-comicstrip-does-it-again/217697.md?page=9)