# Johns Hopkins student kills intruder with samurai sword **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [September 16, 2009, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johns-hopkins-student-kills-intruder-with-samurai-sword/510264 "2009-09-16T02:31:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Barrett\_Bonden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5e9695/32.png) [@Barrett\_Bonden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barrett_Bonden)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2009, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johns-hopkins-student-kills-intruder-with-samurai-sword/510264/1 "2009-09-16T02:31:16Z")
Details [here](http://media.www.jhunewsletter.com/media/storage/paper932/news/2009/09/15/NewsFeatures/Hopkins.Student.Kills.Intruder.With.Samurai.Sword-3772295.shtml). Well, erm, it’s not _precisely_ mundane. . . ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2009, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johns-hopkins-student-kills-intruder-with-samurai-sword/510264/2 "2009-09-16T02:33:42Z")
Get some, Pontolillo! ---
**Author:** ![fubbleskag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fubbleskag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fubbleskag)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2009, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johns-hopkins-student-kills-intruder-with-samurai-sword/510264/3 "2009-09-16T02:40:47Z")
maryland? that kid’s screwed. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2009, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johns-hopkins-student-kills-intruder-with-samurai-sword/510264/4 "2009-09-16T02:49:42Z")
Sounds like this played out quieter than it might have at my house. I hope Maryland has reasonable self defense laws. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2009, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johns-hopkins-student-kills-intruder-with-samurai-sword/510264/5 "2009-09-16T02:51:10Z")
Leonardo, Donatello, Raphael, Michelangelo, and Pontolillo. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2009, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johns-hopkins-student-kills-intruder-with-samurai-sword/510264/6 "2009-09-16T02:54:16Z")
Your honor. My client pleads “not guilty” by reason of awesomeness. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Scrappy\_Hero\_Pup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ea5d25/32.png) [@Happy\_Scrappy\_Hero\_Pup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Scrappy_Hero_Pup)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2009, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johns-hopkins-student-kills-intruder-with-samurai-sword/510264/7 "2009-09-16T03:02:58Z")
“In a panic?” I hope he just said that to avoid charges. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![fubbleskag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fubbleskag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fubbleskag)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2009, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johns-hopkins-student-kills-intruder-with-samurai-sword/510264/8 "2009-09-16T03:11:41Z")
“Does the defendant have anything to say to the court?” “There can be only one!” ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2009, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johns-hopkins-student-kills-intruder-with-samurai-sword/510264/9 "2009-09-16T03:23:15Z")
If I’m reading this [article](http://media.www.jhunewsletter.com/media/storage/paper932/news/2009/09/15/NewsFeatures/Hopkins.Student.Kills.Intruder.With.Samurai.Sword-3772295.shtml) right, the student was outside, looked into the detached garage and was surprised by the burglar, who lunged at him. It was night, and it sounds like it probably happened too fast for the student to have any opportunity to assess whether the burglar was armed. If a man who may or may not be armed lunges at you out of the dark without warning, do you have the right to use deadly force? Here’s the model Maryland jury instruction on self-defense: > [@MPJI Cr 5:07](#): > > Self-defense is a defense, and the defendant must be found not guilty if all of the following three factors are present: > > ``` > * 1) The defendant actually believed that <he> <she> was in immediate and imminent danger of bodily harm. > * 2) The defendant's belief was reasonable. > * 3) The defendant used no more force than was reasonably necessary to defend <himself> <herself> in light of the threatenend or actual harm. > > ``` > > \ > > \ \ home, retreat was unsafe, the avenue of retreat was unknown to the defendant, the defendant was being robbed, the defendant was lawfully arresting the victim. If the defendant was found to have not used deadly-force, then the defendant had no duty to retreat.\> The student should have no trouble satisfying Points 1 and 2. Point 3, whether the force he used was reasonable, will presumably be the focus of the investigation, as well as whether the student could reasonably have retreated from the burglar. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2009, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johns-hopkins-student-kills-intruder-with-samurai-sword/510264/10 "2009-09-16T03:28:59Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > The student should have no trouble satisfying Points 1 and 2. Point 3, whether the force he used was reasonable, will presumably be the focus of the investigation, as well as whether the student \*\*could reasonably have retreated \*\*from the burglar. these words make me cry…or chop something off someone… ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2009, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johns-hopkins-student-kills-intruder-with-samurai-sword/510264/11 "2009-09-16T03:30:55Z")
> [@](#): > > According to Moses, Ponts confronted the intruder and ordered him to stand still. He and his roommates also called for police and for help. > > “The intruder lunged at him. The student in panic swung the sword, struck the intruder in the left wrist, partially severing the hand,” Moses said. Was the student legally entitled to order the suspect to stay where he was? And geez, how quickly does one bleed to death from such an injury? ---
**Author:** ![appleciders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85f322/32.png) [@appleciders](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/appleciders)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2009, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johns-hopkins-student-kills-intruder-with-samurai-sword/510264/12 "2009-09-16T03:32:33Z")
Looks like the student had been robbed earlier in the day, which explains carrying the sword when investigating his garage. That’s reasonable, if dramatic. It also appears that the student confronted the intruder, told him to freeze, and the intruder jumped at him. It may be that the student confronted the intruder with his roommates, who left the student covering the intruder while they called the police. No word on whether it was dark or not, or whether the intruder was armed or not. And the student struck the intruder once in the wrist- that’s plausible for an intended self-defense blow. I think the student will get off scot-free if he gets a good lawyer. EDIT: **Koxinga** , I think that would fall under a citizen’s arrest. I do think that you’re allowed to hold a caught robber until the police arrive. IANAL, though, and will appreciate it when **Bricker** weighs in. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2009, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johns-hopkins-student-kills-intruder-with-samurai-sword/510264/13 "2009-09-16T03:38:39Z")
Found an interesting link to an apparently [ongoing case in Texas](http://blogs.findlaw.com/blotter/2009/09/deadly-force-and-home-defense-texas-man-kills-2-teens.html), with perhaps relevant discussion here: > [@](#): > > Many states have enacted the so-called “castle doctrine,” which generally holds that a person does not have to retreat instead of using force or deadly force. These laws are aimed at situations where the person could avoid confrontation and the use of force by retreating, but instead they choose to stay and defend their home (or car, or workplace, or in some states any physical location they have a right to occupy). > > States legalizing the “castle doctrine” do it in different ways. For example, some don’t allow deadly force if the intruder retreats. Others, such as Texas, allow deadly force even against fleeing intruders in some circumstances. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2009, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johns-hopkins-student-kills-intruder-with-samurai-sword/510264/14 "2009-09-16T03:39:58Z")
I had a friend in college who carried a samurai sword a lot. This makes me think a little differently about that, although he lived in a dorm and we were more worried he’d hurt somebody while screwing around with the thing. He was more than a little nuts. My non-lawyer guess is that Pontolillo doesn’t get charged with anything. ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2009, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johns-hopkins-student-kills-intruder-with-samurai-sword/510264/15 "2009-09-16T03:52:53Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > The student should have no trouble satisfying Points 1 and 2. Point 3, whether the force he used was reasonable, will presumably be the focus of the investigation, as well as whether the student could reasonably have retreated from the burglar. It’s hard to argue the force wasn’t reasonable. Someone lunged at him, presumably either to strike him, grab him or push him out of the way. He struck at the attacker’s _hand_. That’s really the absolute bare minimum of force in that situation. If he’d struck at his torso or head that might be considered excessive. But at the threatening limb? Hard to see any jury calling that excessive. > [@Koxinga](#): > > And geez, how quickly does one bleed to death from such an injury? Unconscious in as little as 15 seconds. Dead within three minutes. Partially severed limbs about worst possible injury if an artery in cut. If the limb is fully severed the lack of returning blood causes a dramatic decrease in blood flowing in. If the limb is partially severed that response is never initiated and the artery keeps getting a full blood supply. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2009, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johns-hopkins-student-kills-intruder-with-samurai-sword/510264/16 "2009-09-16T03:54:21Z")
I wonder if the sword was decent, or a POS? I keep one like [this](http://www.gungfu.com/htm-swords/ninjitsu-swords/swords-ninjitsu-swords-classic-steel-full-tang-ninja.htm) by the front door, just to be able to deal with Jehovah’s Witnesses, Mormons and other pests. It’s a cheap thing, but it will do the job. ---
**Author:** ![appleciders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85f322/32.png) [@appleciders](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/appleciders)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2009, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johns-hopkins-student-kills-intruder-with-samurai-sword/510264/17 "2009-09-16T04:01:51Z")
Oh, and apparently in Maryland, the “castle doctrine” laws on record don’t require you to attempt to retreat if you’re in your own home. > **[Castle doctrine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_doctrine#State-by-state_positions)** > > A castle doctrine, also known as a castle law or a defense of habitation law, is a legal doctrine that designates a person's abode or any legally occupied place (for example, a vehicle or home) as a place in which that person has protections and immunities permitting one, in certain circumstances, to use force (up to and including deadly force) to defend oneself against an intruder, free from legal prosecution for the consequences of the force used. The term is most commonly used in the United De... ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2009, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johns-hopkins-student-kills-intruder-with-samurai-sword/510264/18 "2009-09-16T04:02:34Z")
The sword struck the hand, or the lunging hand run into the sword? ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2009, 9:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johns-hopkins-student-kills-intruder-with-samurai-sword/510264/19 "2009-09-16T09:22:30Z")
> [@](#): > > According to Moses, Ponts confronted the intruder and **ordered him to stand still**. Dude is going to regret missing his one chance to bellow 'You shall not pass!" ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2009, 9:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johns-hopkins-student-kills-intruder-with-samurai-sword/510264/20 "2009-09-16T09:46:19Z")
> [@Koxinga](#): > > And geez, how quickly does one bleed to death from such an injury? According to my sources, 'tis just a flesh wound. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johns-hopkins-student-kills-intruder-with-samurai-sword/510264.md?page=2)