# Johns Hopkins student kills intruder with samurai sword **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [September 16, 2009, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johns-hopkins-student-kills-intruder-with-samurai-sword/510264 "2009-09-16T02:31:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2009, 10:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johns-hopkins-student-kills-intruder-with-samurai-sword/510264/21 "2009-09-16T10:25:35Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > I wonder if the sword was decent, or a POS? I keep one like [this](http://www.gungfu.com/htm-swords/ninjitsu-swords/swords-ninjitsu-swords-classic-steel-full-tang-ninja.htm) by the front door, just to be able to deal with Jehovah’s Witnesses, Mormons and other pests. It’s a cheap thing, but it will do the job. Yeah, I was surprised about that. I bought a katana-wakizashi set in college but they were the display kind that wouldn’t hold an edge after use. You might be able to put a minor stabbing wound in someone, but I doubt I could cut a cucumber if using it as a slashing weapon as it didn’t come sharpened. My WAG is that he had a real one, or that he sharpened up the display type. ---
**Author:** ![WotNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e19b73/32.png) [@WotNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WotNot)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2009, 10:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johns-hopkins-student-kills-intruder-with-samurai-sword/510264/22 "2009-09-16T10:28:48Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > The student should have no trouble satisfying Points 1 and 2. Point 3, whether the force he used was reasonable, will presumably be the focus of the investigation, as well as whether the student could reasonably have retreated from the burglar. Well, he wouldn’t have any duty to retreat in his own home, which (assuming his backyard counts) he was, or if he was arresting the intruder, which it seems he was (though that may depend on Maryland’s laws on citizens arrest). Also, according to [this report,](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/09/15/AR2009091503930.html) > [@](#): > > The student “was backed up against a corner, and either out of fear or out of panic, he just struck the sword with force,” said city police spokesman Anthony Guglielmi. So it looks as though he couldn’t have retreated if he’d wanted to. It seems the intruder only got out of jail on Saturday. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2009, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johns-hopkins-student-kills-intruder-with-samurai-sword/510264/23 "2009-09-16T11:15:11Z")
I wouldn’t think being backed in a corner, and slashing at a hand to be excessive. My question would be more oriented towards did he try to tournequet the wrist. But then again, I am not sure I would want to actually approach someone who just tried to assault me… ---
**Author:** ![WotNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e19b73/32.png) [@WotNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WotNot)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2009, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johns-hopkins-student-kills-intruder-with-samurai-sword/510264/24 "2009-09-16T11:41:58Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > I wouldn’t think being backed in a corner, and slashing at a hand to be excessive. > > My question would be more oriented towards did he try to tournequet the wrist. > > But then again, I am not sure I would want to actually approach someone who just tried to assault me… … and quite possibly, in the darkness and confusion, it may be that no-one – including, perhaps, the victim – realised the extent of the injury until it was too late. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2009, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johns-hopkins-student-kills-intruder-with-samurai-sword/510264/25 "2009-09-16T12:27:08Z")
> [@WotNot](#): > > … and quite possibly, in the darkness and confusion, it may be that no-one – including, perhaps, the victim – realised the extent of the injury until it was too late. True, with the guy being shocky, he may not have realized how badly he was actually hurt and you can bleed out _very_ fast from a wrist wound. With the adrenaline making the heart pump, might be faster than normal… i do hope the kid gets off on self defense, and that the legal system laughs if any surviving family want to sue the poor kid … the dead guy was killed committing a felony and the family needs to suck it up. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2009, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johns-hopkins-student-kills-intruder-with-samurai-sword/510264/26 "2009-09-16T12:42:41Z")
> [@Koxinga](#): > > Was the student legally entitled to order the suspect to stay where he was? And geez, how quickly does one bleed to death from such an injury? [QUOTE=[http://www.duhaime.org/LegalDictionary/C/CitizensArrest.aspx](http://www.duhaime.org/LegalDictionary/C/CitizensArrest.aspx)] In US v Atwell, the Maryland Court referred to the: “… common law rule whereby a private citizen may effectuate an arrest under two circumstances: **there is a felony being committed in his presence** , or when a felony has in fact been committed whether or not in his presence and the arrester has reasonable ground (probable cause) to believe the person he arrests has committed it; or a misdemeanor is being committed in the presence or view of the arrester which amounts to a breach of the peace…” [/QUOTE] I’m kind of upset now that my girlfriend stopped me from buying that Braveheart-style Claymore when we were in Scotland last year. I suppose I would have a hard time explaining to the cops why I yelled “FREEEEEEEEDOM!” right before I cleaved an intruder in half lengthwise. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2009, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johns-hopkins-student-kills-intruder-with-samurai-sword/510264/27 "2009-09-16T13:52:49Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Your honor. My client pleads “not guilty” by reason of awesomeness. Yes. Where will they find 12 jurors to convict this guy? I heard on the news that the dead guy had a very long criminal record and had just been released from prison. ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2009, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johns-hopkins-student-kills-intruder-with-samurai-sword/510264/28 "2009-09-16T14:26:42Z")
> [@fubbleskag](#): > > “Does the defendant have anything to say to the court?” > > “There can be only one!” Win! ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2009, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johns-hopkins-student-kills-intruder-with-samurai-sword/510264/29 "2009-09-16T14:29:25Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > I wouldn’t think being backed in a corner, and slashing at a hand to be excessive. > > My question would be more oriented towards did he try to tournequet the wrist. > > But then again, I am not sure I would want to actually approach someone who just tried to assault me… Everything I’ve learned/read about self-defense, especially in the home, says that if you injure an attacker, (1) get yourself to a safe place, and (2) call 911. Do not approach, touch, or attempt to help the attacker in any way. He may be screaming he’s dying, and when you bend down to check him, you find out it’s only a scratch and he’s now attacking you again. Never, ever, trust an attacker. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2009, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johns-hopkins-student-kills-intruder-with-samurai-sword/510264/30 "2009-09-16T14:37:48Z")
I think the cops need to pay a high level magic user to identify the sword. It could be a Vorpal Sword, or a Sword of Sharpness, or possibly a Sword of Wounding… (A Flametongue would be cooler) ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2009, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johns-hopkins-student-kills-intruder-with-samurai-sword/510264/31 "2009-09-16T16:41:55Z")
Ever wondered if you could shoot to kill in a defend-your-home scenario? Now take it up a notch: [Student With Samurai Sword Kills Theft Suspect](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/09/15/AR2009091503930.html) Mod edit: There’s already an active thread, so I merged this in. (signed) twickster ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2009, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johns-hopkins-student-kills-intruder-with-samurai-sword/510264/32 "2009-09-16T16:44:25Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > (A Flametongue would be cooler) Yeah, but that would’ve cauterized the wound, and then we’d have an entirely different news story. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2009, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johns-hopkins-student-kills-intruder-with-samurai-sword/510264/33 "2009-09-16T17:12:43Z")
> [@KneadToKnow](#): > > Mod edit: There’s already an active thread, so I merged this in. (signed) twickster Crap. Sorry, I don’t understand why I didn’t see it. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2009, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johns-hopkins-student-kills-intruder-with-samurai-sword/510264/34 "2009-09-16T17:20:46Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > Yes. Where will they find 12 jurors to convict this guy? > > I heard on the news that the dead guy had a very long criminal record and had just been released from prison. Released Sat. Took the lords day off on Sunday. Place was already robbed on Monday. He is dead by Tuesday. That didnt take long. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2009, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johns-hopkins-student-kills-intruder-with-samurai-sword/510264/35 "2009-09-16T17:22:26Z")
> [@Blake](#): > > It’s hard to argue the force wasn’t reasonable. Someone lunged at him, presumably either to strike him, grab him or push him out of the way. He struck at the attacker’s _hand_. That’s really the absolute bare minimum of force in that situation. > > If he’d struck at his torso or head that might be considered excessive. But at the threatening limb? Hard to see any jury calling that excessive. [He also had severe lacerations to the upper body.](http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/09/15/samurai.sword.killing/index.html?iref=newssearch) ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2009, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johns-hopkins-student-kills-intruder-with-samurai-sword/510264/36 "2009-09-16T17:26:21Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > [He also had severe lacerations to the upper body.](http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/09/15/samurai.sword.killing/index.html?iref=newssearch) That could have been effectively a “followthrough” of the initial swipe/jab - the suspect rushes at the student, who thrusts out the sword. The suspect’s hand or hands are extended, maybe to attack; the sword bites deep on the wrist and rebounds off, meanwhile the suspect’s momentum carries him forward and the sword impacts the chest and is pushed along it. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2009, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johns-hopkins-student-kills-intruder-with-samurai-sword/510264/37 "2009-09-16T17:28:30Z")
> [@Ferret\_Herder](#): > > That could have been effectively a “followthrough” of the initial swipe/jab - the suspect rushes at the student, who thrusts out the sword. The suspect’s hand or hands are extended, maybe to attack; the sword bites deep on the wrist and rebounds off, meanwhile the suspect’s momentum carries him forward and the sword impacts the chest and is pushed along it. I’m just offering information. However, I am curious as to how a sword could both sever a hand and bounce off the wrist. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2009, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johns-hopkins-student-kills-intruder-with-samurai-sword/510264/38 "2009-09-16T17:31:57Z")
Depending on their positions, Pontolillo could have struck the man’s chest first and hit the wrist on the follow through. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2009, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johns-hopkins-student-kills-intruder-with-samurai-sword/510264/39 "2009-09-16T17:32:29Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > I’m just offering information. However, I am curious as to how a sword could both sever a hand and bounce off the wrist. Yeah, good point; I was just thinking about severed vessels and not an apparent amputation. Well, I was thinking about a blow to the inside of the wrist, but if the arm was between the torso and the sword, it might have essentially been in the way of a swing. Off goes the hand, sword continues on to bite into the chest. Just wild-guessing here, but I’m entertaining serious doubts about whether the standard “display” style of sword, even if sharpened, would be good enough to do that. (I knew a fair number of college students, my now-husband and I included, who’d have display ones because they looked cool.) It might well have been real, which depending on MD law might run afoul of weapons laws. ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2009, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johns-hopkins-student-kills-intruder-with-samurai-sword/510264/40 "2009-09-16T18:51:16Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Depending on their positions, Pontolillo could have struck the man’s chest first and hit the wrist on the follow through. Or vice-versa: Swing at the wrist, and the tip of the blade intersect with the chest. I suspect, based on the scenario, that this is more likely the case. The assailent’s wrist would’ve been the closest target, and likely the one focused on and attacked; meanwhile, the lunge carries the assailent’s chest inside the arc of the tip of tip of the blade… Even if this was an honest-to-God heirloom blade from the 1600s, he’s not going to have any weapons law troubles, not even in Maryland - He was still within the confines of what would leagally be defened as ‘his’ property; He’s not walking about in public in this instance. Poor kid was likely scared half-insane, and is likely more than a bit of a wreck today. _Messy_ way to have to defend yourself. OTOH, nice work staying alive, kid. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johns-hopkins-student-kills-intruder-with-samurai-sword/510264.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johns-hopkins-student-kills-intruder-with-samurai-sword/510264.md?page=3)