# Johnson/Weld campaign **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 23, 2016, 7:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnson-weld-campaign/755446 "2016-05-23T07:34:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 20
**Author:** ![snoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@snoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snoe)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2016, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnson-weld-campaign/755446/381 "2016-10-04T19:05:41Z")
[http://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2016/10/gary-johnson-war-on-drugs-hypocrite](http://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2016/10/gary-johnson-war-on-drugs-hypocrite) A left critique of Johnson’s gubernatorial record on crime and drugs. Loomis’s argument takes some liberties, particularly in implying racist intent, but the sources he cites do seem to show that today’s Johnson rhetoric doesn’t match with yesterday’s Johnson record on these issues. (I don’t think the Libertarian Party’s last few presidential candidates have been anywhere near as drug-friendly as the party’s platform and members seem to be. Ron Paul, for instance, was fine with _state-level_ drug prohibition.) ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnson-weld-campaign/755446/382 "2016-10-05T00:39:16Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > You claimed that as adaher goes, so goes 1-2%. That’s an error. If he changes his vote, it does not change other votes. … I really am sorry, and surprised, that the concept of thinking of a small sample as potentially representative of some number of others of similar characteristics is too difficult for you to comprehend. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnson-weld-campaign/755446/383 "2016-10-05T04:02:22Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > How is a governor “solely responsible” for his state? What about the Lite Gov, Atty General & the rest of the Executive Branch? (Texas has a weak governorship–but that’s a relic of Reconstruction. Probably not the case in New Mexico.) > > Usually the other branches of government have their roles. The Governor has to work with them. > > We know you hate Hillary. But she has real experience. The executive is responsible for his state, city, or national government. Texas can be an exception, and in some countries heads of state have only ceremonial power. But in most states, the executive power lies solely with the governor, as it does with the Presidency. Clinton has never wielded, nor been responsible for this power. She has only ever been a) an informal advisor, or b) carried out the policies of others. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnson-weld-campaign/755446/384 "2016-10-05T04:17:52Z")
Let’s see … Governors who became presidents … a mixed bag. GW Bush, Carter, Clinton, Reagan, FDR, Coolidge, Wilson, Taft , Teddy Roosevelt, McKinley, Cleveland, Rutherford B Hayes, Andrew Johnson … Some great, some mediocre, some crap. Presidents who were not ever governors? Obama, GHW Bush, Ford, Nixon, Johnson, Kennedy, Eisenhower, Truman, oh quite a mixed bag more that include Lincoln, Jefferson, Adams, and Washington. Some of the greatest presidents ever. And some duds. In neither direction does it seem to have much predictive power. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnson-weld-campaign/755446/385 "2016-10-05T05:39:58Z")
It does when you a) take into account gubernatorial performance. It’s actually a very good predictor of how someone will do as President. Mediocre governors tend to make mediocre Presidents, good governors tend to make good Presidents. and b) when you take into account other kinds of experience where there is major accountability, such as the military. THen you get this grouping instead: Qualified: Clinton, Reagan, Bush 41, FDR, Coolidge, TR, JFK, Nixon Unqualified: Obama, Bush 43, Carter, Johnson, Truman, Hoover, Ford Those lists are actually a lot easier to distinguish good from bad. Carter’s case is especially informative, since he had the exact same problems in Georgia that he would later have as President. The state legislature couldn’t work with him either and by the time his administration was over he had few friends in his own party. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnson-weld-campaign/755446/386 "2016-10-05T05:57:31Z")
Here are how those guys rank. ([from here](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_rankings_of_Presidents_of_the_United_States)) ```auto Franklin D. Roosevelt 2 Qualified Harry S. Truman 6 Unqualified Dwight D. Eisenhower 9 Qualified John F. Kennedy 11 Qualified Lyndon B. Johnson 13 Unqualified Ronald Reagan 15 Qualified Barack Obama 17 Unqualified Bill Clinton 20 Qualified George H. W. Bush 22 Qualified Gerald Ford 26 Unqualified Jimmy Carter 27 Unqualified Calvin Coolidge 30 Qualified Herbert Hoover 32 Unqualified Richard Nixon 33 Qualified George W. Bush 34 Unqualified ``` ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnson-weld-campaign/755446/387 "2016-10-05T05:59:45Z")
I wouldn’t call the rankings totally subjective, but really, Obama over Clinton? Nixon’s rating is low because he was corrupt, but few contest his ability to do the job. Truman is ranked highly now but the people of the time thought he was garbage. LBJ’s accomplishments are solely of the legislative variety, not surprising given his experience. As Commander in Chief and as an executive, total garbage. Coolidge is always criminally underrated. Probably the best executive we’ve ever had because he not only understood what an executive should do, but what an executive shouldn’t do. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnson-weld-campaign/755446/388 "2016-10-05T06:10:32Z")
That was the aggregate of scholar surveys, but I guess it’s possible that you know more about Coolidge than a panel of presidential historians. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnson-weld-campaign/755446/389 "2016-10-05T06:12:14Z")
Coolidge the best ever? He gave us the crash of '39. Hoover had to deal with it, but Coolidge helped set it up. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 10:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnson-weld-campaign/755446/390 "2016-10-05T10:09:06Z")
[Weld, at least, has put the bong down.](http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/10/libertarian-vp-candidate-just-wants-to-stop-trump-presidency.html) > [@](#): > > VP candidate Bill Weld told the Boston Globe that he plans to focus exclusively on attacking Donald Trump for the remainder of the campaign – essentially admitting that running mate Gary Johnson can not become president. > > Trump has Weld’s “full attention,” he explained, because his agenda is so terrible it’s “in a class by itself.” “I think Mr. Trump’s proposals in the foreign policy area, including nuclear proliferation, tariffs, and free trade, would be so hurtful, domestically and in the world, that he has my full attention,” Weld said. Not that anyone is going to be listening, Bill, but the thought is appreciated. Elsewhere in that link: > [@](#): > > earlier in the day Johnson admitted in a CNN interview “I guess I wasn’t meant to be president.” Or maybe you didn’t really want it, Gary, knowhamean? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnson-weld-campaign/755446/391 "2016-10-05T11:31:18Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > Coolidge the best ever? He gave us the crash of '39. Hoover had to deal with it, but Coolidge helped set it up. That’s like saying Clinton set up the housing crisis. Coolidge had sound fiscal policies and it’s not as if Democrats noticed a problem with the stock market. Hoover’s policies were much less sound and he made things worse rather than better once the market crash happened. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnson-weld-campaign/755446/392 "2016-10-05T11:47:45Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Let’s see … Governors who became presidents … a mixed bag. GW Bush, Carter, Clinton, Reagan, FDR, Coolidge, Wilson, Taft , Teddy Roosevelt, McKinley, Cleveland, Rutherford B Hayes, Andrew Johnson … Some great, some mediocre, some crap. > > Presidents who were not ever governors? Obama, GHW Bush, Ford, Nixon, Johnson, Kennedy, Eisenhower, Truman, oh quite a mixed bag more that include Lincoln, Jefferson, Adams, and Washington. Some of the greatest presidents ever. And some duds. > > In neither direction does it seem to have much predictive power. Jefferson was governor of Virginia. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnson-weld-campaign/755446/393 "2016-10-05T11:49:31Z")
Adams was VP and Washington was Commander in Chief before he became Commander in Chief. Now Franklin Pierce, he knew nothing and got us into a war with Mexico. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnson-weld-campaign/755446/394 "2016-10-05T11:50:36Z")
Sorry, that was Polk, and he was a governor. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnson-weld-campaign/755446/395 "2016-10-05T12:25:17Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Jefferson was governor of Virginia. Indeed. TJ’s actions (or inactions) as governor during the Revolution caused an investigation to be announced. Was his response to British invasion of the state merely incompetence–or cowardice? Yorktown intervened–TJ was thanked for his service & the matter was dropped. Famously, Jefferson omitted his Governorship from his gravestone. As he did his Presidency; aside from the Louisiana Purchase (which dropped into his lap), his two terms were problematic. Nice Declaration, though! ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnson-weld-campaign/755446/396 "2016-10-05T12:29:43Z")
Well **addie** you can go ahead and subjectively rate how good of governors you perceive they were to how good of Presidents you personally think they were _post hoc_ if you want. Reality of course that none of the former governors turned President were at the time thought of as having been poor at the job. Bluntly put they would not have won nominations and the elections if they had been. Funny though that you think that Carter was a poor governor because his accomplishing many successful reforms was over the resistance of other state politicians, including those in his own party, yet think that veto-happy Johnson (over 700 times, he claims 750) is a model of how to be an executive. Reviews of his gubernatorial performance _by conservatives_ even, are [less than glowing](http://www.nationalreview.com/article/435704/gary-johnson-libertarian-party-2016-conservatives). I get that you want a bigger national footprint for libertarian ideas and want the party to be positioned to be a real player in the future. But be real. Johnson is a doofus who is completely unprepared to run for president let alone to be one and whose executive experience was not one of reaching across party lines but one of wanton use of the veto. You want to vote for him as a protest or as part of a desire to build a GOP alternative more to your liking, fine, but don’t pretend that he would be a good choice. He would be a disaster. On preview - my miss on Jefferson acknowledged. Point still stands. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnson-weld-campaign/755446/397 "2016-10-05T14:04:34Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Well **addie** you can go ahead and subjectively rate how good of governors you perceive they were to how good of Presidents you personally think they were _post hoc_ if you want. > > Reality of course that none of the former governors turned President were at the time thought of as having been poor at the job. Bluntly put they would not have won nominations and the elections if they had been. That’s not exactly right though. No one thought GWB was a good governor. What he was was a Bush with the right views. > [@](#): > > Funny though that you think that Carter was a poor governor because his accomplishing many successful reforms was over the resistance of other state politicians, including those in his own party, yet think that veto-happy Johnson (over 700 times, he claims 750) is a model of how to be an executive. Reviews of his gubernatorial performance _by conservatives_ even, are [less than glowing](http://www.nationalreview.com/article/435704/gary-johnson-libertarian-party-2016-conservatives). Carter’s problems governing in Georgia foreshadowed what happened when he went to DC. Many analysts thought at the time that Carter was alienating fellow Georgians because they were just a bunch of hicks. Then he went to DC and alienated “hicks” like Daniel Moynihan and Tip O’Neill. Sure, there’s some subjectivity in my own analysis, but my point that a candidate’s accomplishments prior to being President tend to be a pretty good predictor of how they’ll do as President stands. Legislators will have legislative accomplishments and tend to be poor at management and foreign policy. Governors tend to perform exactly as they did as governors, with the same strengths and weaknesses. VPs can be a little tougher to predict, but in theory a VP should be prepared for the job. Military leaders can also be tough to predict but most have turned out well, and the WW2 generation vets turned out very well indeed(Ike, JFK, Bush 41). So I’d be pretty comfortable if Wes Clark had won the Presidency, especially since NATO Sec gen comes with a ton of foreign policy experience. Now Clinton, her foreign policy expertise is a given, and she seems to know a good amount about domestic issues and legislative stuff. The primary weakness in her resume is accountability. She’s never really been the one in charge before. There’s always been shared accountability. Obama never really did learn that “the buck stops here” and that did moderate damage to his Presidency. Clinton probably at least understands it better, but that’s different from actually having to do it. Is Clinton a glorified Condi Rice/Jim Baker type, someone who should be advising the person in charge, or should she actually be in charge? I guess we’ll find out. Gary Johnson may be bad at interviewing, but he governed New Mexico, and his running mate is probably even better than he is. ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnson-weld-campaign/755446/398 "2016-10-05T16:42:07Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Gary Johnson may be bad at interviewing, but he governed New Mexico, and his running mate is probably even better than he is. As others have noted, his record wasn’t that great. Only reason this isn’t more widely known is that no one actually cares. Johnson has had very few chances to shine on national television and he’s flubbed most of them – his weird park bench interview, his Aleppo moment, his other Aleppo moment… He actually does better when he’s a cipher, a black box with a Libertarian label that people can fling their votes into while smugly feeling like they’ve stuck it to the system. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnson-weld-campaign/755446/399 "2016-10-05T17:15:13Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > That’s like saying Clinton set up the housing crisis. Coolidge had sound fiscal policies and it’s not as if Democrats noticed a problem with the stock market. Hoover’s policies were much less sound and he made things worse rather than better once the market crash happened. Clinton did actually have a hand in the housing crisis: he signed off on Gramm-Leach-Bliley, which probably made the crash much worse than it might have been had Glass-Steagal still been in effect. If Coolidge’s fiscal policies were sound (as partially advised by Commerce Secretary Hoover), they would have led to long-term stability rather than just pretty numbers in the near term. I understand that the president cannot always look at trends and long term effects, but it should be part of his job to try to keep things in good order for the future. A president who focuses on the now and the numbers (or just lets it ride) at the expense of next year is _not_ a good president. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2016, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnson-weld-campaign/755446/400 "2016-10-06T04:04:50Z")
Coolidge’s problem, and the problem of almost all politicians at the time, was that they were so committed to laissez-faire economics that they kept on seeing depression after depression. How many depressions were there between the end of the Civil War and 1929? Three or four I think, almost all due to speculative booms. But I don’t see how you can hold Coolidge anymore responsible than Andrew Johnson through Hoover. I think it’s more that historians penalize Presidents who are restrained and hold in high esteem Presidents who took decisive action, even if that action was illegal or violated human rights. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnson-weld-campaign/755446.md?page=19) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johnson-weld-campaign/755446.md?page=21)