# Join the army? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 23, 2017, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/join-the-army/785036 "2017-04-23T01:41:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2017, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/join-the-army/785036/41 "2017-04-24T13:30:23Z")
> [@DinoR](#): > > - We’ve probably all seen and joked about the teamwork related messaging and motivational posters a lot of civilian employers like to use. I’ve been there and done that. I’ve even done it with Army messaging. I always laugh when I see posters of climbers ascending Mt Everest or F-18s breaking the sound barrier at some corporate break room. The very reason people are working at this office is because they are not the sort of people who climb Everest or fly fighter jets. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2017, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/join-the-army/785036/42 "2017-04-24T14:27:01Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > I always laugh when I see posters of climbers ascending Mt Everest or F-18s breaking the sound barrier at some corporate break room. The very reason people are working at this office is because they are not the sort of people who climb Everest or fly fighter jets. But they want to believe they _could_ if only they were called upon to do so. No matter that you are a fifty year old paper pusher who huffs and puffs his way from and to the golf cart, I’m sure with a couple weeks in boot camp you’ll climb a glacier and take down a Spetsnaz team all on your own, buddy. The worst, though, are people who use (and most often mangle) military terminology in a civilian setting or claim some kind of priority by association. I work with a certain government agency where employees and subcontractors routinely describe going on travel for a meeting as “going TDY”. I’m sorry, did you receive orders to go perform a duty assignment? Did you fill out a DD-1610? No? Then you are not “TDY”, you are just traveling as a civilian. And more than once I’ve heard these asshats claiming or complaining of being denied the special accommodations that airlines provide to active duty service members, believing that they same should apply to some chair-warming bureaucrat looking for an excuse to demand a first class seat. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2017, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/join-the-army/785036/43 "2017-04-24T17:21:22Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > I work with a certain government agency where employees and subcontractors routinely describe going on travel for a meeting as “going TDY”. I’m sorry, did you receive orders to go perform a duty assignment? Did you fill out a DD-1610? No? Then you are not “TDY”, you are just traveling as a civilian I’m sorry, but what do you call it when a government civilian goes on Temporary DutY somewhere? ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2017, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/join-the-army/785036/44 "2017-04-24T17:38:31Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > I’m sorry, but what do you call it when a government civilian goes on Temporary DutY somewhere? They are “on travel” using a travel budget provided by their program or through their contract for subcontractors (which many of them are), not filling out a DD-1610 or receiving formal orders for detached duty. They are not on “temporary duty”, they aren’t “going AWOL” when they take vacation time, and they sure as shit aren’t “under enemy fire” just because they are having a snippy dispute between departments. Most of these people are Walter Mitty-esque chair compressors who contribute little to no real work and yet to hear them speak they are single-handedly saving civilization as we know it at great peril to life and limb. The one I love the most is the guy who comes to meetings with his digicamo Maxpedition briefcase covered in MOLLE ammo pouches and a skull patch, talking nonsense about his collection of quasi-military firearms, and boasting about he’d waterboard various political figures or world leaders if he had the chance. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2017, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/join-the-army/785036/45 "2017-04-24T17:43:07Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > I’m sorry, but what do you call it when a government civilian goes on Temporary DutY somewhere? Business trip? ---
**Author:** ![edwardcoast](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/cab0a1/32.png) [@edwardcoast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/edwardcoast)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2017, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/join-the-army/785036/46 "2017-04-24T18:02:26Z")
> [@theultimatebrucelee](#): > > After graduating last year with an degree in accounting, I had a couple of unsuccessful job experiences and realized accounting is probably not for me. I’ve been having trouble finding another job that is not accounting/bookkeeping related now and am debating on whether or not to join the army. > > Recruiters at different locations are telling me different stuff, when I told them I wanted to become an officer. My test scores certainly did qualify me, but I was told that they’ll stick me to whichever MOS they have need in. Instead, I should enlist as a E4 so I can get any job I want and work up to officer. Another branch told me that officer is pretty much “in for life” and gets called back to duty even after retirement/end of contract if the need is there. > > It’d be great if anyone can share some of their personal experience with me they had with army to help me decide if its right for me or not. You went to college, majored in accounting, can’t find a job, and want to do something else. So do something else. I don’t see how signing up for the US Army is going to be the next logical career move for you. You aren’t lost in life, you just aren’t sure what your occupation would be. Chances are very great that in the US Army you are going to get stuck with an occupation you don’t want and can’t simply quit like you can working with a private or public company. Based on what you’ve posted, I think you should continue to look for a job and continue to explore without enlisting. ---
**Author:** ![edwardcoast](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/cab0a1/32.png) [@edwardcoast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/edwardcoast)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2017, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/join-the-army/785036/47 "2017-04-24T18:04:12Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Whatever they tell you, just figure it’s a lie. Get any promises in writing and sign nothing that doesn’t include all you’ve been promised. Doesn’t matter, they can assign you to any duties they want and assign you to any location they wish and shift. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2017, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/join-the-army/785036/48 "2017-04-24T21:33:17Z")
> [@edwardcoast](#): > > Doesn’t matter, they can assign you to any duties they want and assign you to any location they wish and shift. Shift? The Army has shifts? In reality unless there are extremely extraordinary circumstances when you sign up you will get exactly what is in your contract. MOS is always stipulated. Sometimes guaranteed first duty station or special schools like Airbourne but sometimes not. For instance I was guaranteed an MOS and Germany as my first duty station. That’s exactly what happened. In fact during Basic due to some high test scores they offered to change my MOS to a MI job that was short. Offered me a nice bonus for the time. I thought about it but turned them down. I was not forced to change. There were zero negative repercussions. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2017, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/join-the-army/785036/49 "2017-04-24T22:30:57Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Actually the Air Force has the best food and when they deploy they bring their air-conditioned bouncy castles and make a giant tent city in the middle of an otherwise inhospitable desert. No living out of uninsulated CONEX boxes for them, no sir! Man, my experience was otherwise (bouncy castles aside). My first duty station after leaving Corry Field was in a tenant command at Torii Station, an Army comms station on Okinawa. There I discovered that everything I had heard about army chow was true. Breakfast was okay but lunch or dinner were really abysmal. This was particularly poignant because the two years I was there, Corry had won a [Ney](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captain_Edward_F._Ney_Memorial_Award) award. I asked a corporal sitting across from me once how ‘our’ chow hall compared with other army chow halls he’d experienced. His reply was, “Well, it isn’t the _best_ I’ve had, but it’s far from the worst.” And yet, airmen at Kadena AFB, seven miles down the road, for lunch would drive off-base, onto Torii and pay money to eat our offerings rather than eat on Kadena for free. /anecdote ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2017, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/join-the-army/785036/50 "2017-04-24T22:52:17Z")
That matches my experience in college; we thought the dining hall food was awful, but visitors thought it better than where they went to school (including my roommate’s visitor from Columbia University). ---
**Author:** ![DorkVader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/73ab20/32.png) [@DorkVader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DorkVader)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2017, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/join-the-army/785036/51 "2017-04-25T01:39:42Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Shift? The Army has shifts? strangely enough, yes, the Army has shifts, for certain MOS’s (MOSes?), while in garrison. Military Police work in shifts, around the clock and cooks can be assigned breakfast/lunch or lunch/dinner shift. There may be other jobs worked in shifts, but those two are the ones I’m aware of. ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2017, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/join-the-army/785036/52 "2017-04-25T03:30:56Z")
Loach has served and IIRC recently joined me in the retired reserve. I read his comment more in the using a day instead of a time to answer the question about when you last slept vein. Woosh Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![GreenHell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ea666f/32.png) [@GreenHell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenHell)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2017, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/join-the-army/785036/53 "2017-04-25T03:51:04Z")
My recommendation is “get a real job\*”. If you don’t like it, quit and do something else. \*Real job being defined as one where putting in your notice doesn’t get you threatened with a prison sentence. There are a lot of crap jobs out there, but it may behoove you to contemplate how crappy a job must be that retention requires threats of incarceration. But, that was a long time ago, for me. Maybe things are easier now for Sgt. Bear and his ilk. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2017, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/join-the-army/785036/54 "2017-04-25T04:33:28Z")
> [@GreenHell](#): > > But, that was a long time ago, for me. Maybe things are easier now for Sgt. Bear **and his ilk**. Is this some kind of veiled insult? ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2017, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/join-the-army/785036/55 "2017-04-25T13:20:59Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > They are “on travel” using a travel budget provided by their program or through their contract for subcontractors (which many of them are), not filling out a DD-1610 or receiving formal orders for detached duty. They are not on “temporary duty”, they aren’t “going AWOL” when they take vacation time, and they sure as shit aren’t “under enemy fire” just because they are having a snippy dispute between departments I’m having a hard time contriving a scenario where a Department of Justice civilian would need to fill out a DD-1610. I’m also having a hard time comparing your information with the myriad TDY request forms that are required to be completed for various other Departments of the Executive Branch. Plus the rules for TDY pay as outlined in various GSA documents. TDY is **T** emporary **D** ut **Y** , an acronym not solely for use by military personnel. ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2017, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/join-the-army/785036/56 "2017-04-25T14:44:29Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > OK, I have no military experience, but “I can’t find a job in my chosen field so I’m just going to enlist in the Army” seems a terrible reason to enlist. > > I’m not saying don’t do it. Just don’t do it unless you actually _want_ to join the Army. Former Navy Enlisted Programs Recruiter here; What **Dewey** said. OK, first, there are no ‘bad’ jobs in the service - Just jobs you like, and jobs you don’t. They all pay roughly the same, commensurate with your experience and specialty. They all have the same benefits. Out in town, few people are going to care what your specialty might be. BUT - That said - There are a lot of jobs that don’t seem accounting-related that will still use the skills and/or mindset of a junior accountant. Anything that requires organized thinking, attention to detail, and the ability to sort amongst data is a potential match. So, management (junior, of course!) - be it IT or financial, or even process-related, is a potential good call. Some gigs don’t _seem_ related, but are - I’m an engineer by mindset, a reactor operator by training, and an IT consutant by actual job experience - But I find myself publishing biomedical reports for a large pharma, and doing quite well at it. Yes, my varied background actually alligns me very well for my current employment. So - The message I’m giving is don’t just toss the whole thing, without getting a bit outside the box, first. ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2017, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/join-the-army/785036/57 "2017-04-25T14:51:07Z")
> [@GreenHell](#): > > It’s not technically correct to call the enlistment agreement a “contract”, even though I use that shorthand myself. A contract is binding on both parties, while you may be charged with failure to live up to you end of the agreement, the Army(Navy, Marines, etc.) is not obligated to live up to theirs… Former Recruiter here: This is factually incorrect. The contract is absolutely binding on both parties. What you’ve missed (very common - almost NO ONE actually reads the contract in detail) is that there are a number of very broad, contractually-defined, escape clauses. Most of them favor the government, yes, but they are binding none-the-less. I’ll also point out that the government often doesn’t strictly enforce the side binding on the individual, for reasons of convenience of the government. Yes, I have absolutely seen people stand on the contract, and win - mostly because they bothered to read the damned thing, and find out what it actually means. ---
**Author:** ![edwardcoast](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/cab0a1/32.png) [@edwardcoast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/edwardcoast)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2017, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/join-the-army/785036/58 "2017-04-25T15:18:58Z")
> [@guestchaz](#): > > strangely enough, yes, the Army has shifts, for certain MOS’s (MOSes?), while in garrison. > Military Police work in shifts, around the clock and cooks can be assigned breakfast/lunch or lunch/dinner shift. There may be other jobs worked in shifts, but those two are the ones I’m aware of. Including computer operations for systems they are mission critical and must be up 24/7. The people who work at missile silos are on 36 hour shifts. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Goob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c77e96/32.png) [@Mr.Goob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Goob)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2017, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/join-the-army/785036/59 "2017-04-25T17:36:40Z")
I read the whole thread and all the points I would have said seem to have been covered, however; > [@drewder](#): > > I’ve never meet a sailor who actually liked the Navy. On the other hand I’ve known plenty of soldiers who liked the Army. Hi nice to meet you. Did 4 years enlisted in the Navy, got out as an E-5 (petty officer 2nd class) and I loved it. It was a tough decision to get out or stay in. Sometimes i wish I had stayed. ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2017, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/join-the-army/785036/60 "2017-04-25T17:43:04Z")
> [@Mr.Goob](#): > > Did 4 years enlisted in the Navy, got out as an E-5 (petty officer 2nd class) and I loved it. It was a tough decision to get out or stay in. Sometimes i wish I had stayed. Ditto, though I had a rather longer career. 😛 And higher final rate. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/join-the-army/785036.md?page=2)