# \*\*\*Join the SDMB panel of experts for live debate coverage - 9/26/2016\*\*\* **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 26, 2016, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/join-the-sdmb-panel-of-experts-for-live-debate-coverage-9-26-2016/766946 "2016-09-26T17:39:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 34
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2016, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/join-the-sdmb-panel-of-experts-for-live-debate-coverage-9-26-2016/766946/661 "2016-09-27T03:37:16Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > So that’s a “yes,” you agree that if Russia invades an under-paying NATO country we should just say “Good Luck!” > > Obvious to you, maybe. Not from his words, or his prior statements. > > So I take it you do not agree with his prior position to let them hang? I bet the others wouldn’t fall behind in payments. When terms of a deal aren’t enforced why should US soldiers have to die? Buy some tanks and airplanes and take your sovereignty seriously if you want to keep it. People and nations always looking for a handout instead of contributing their fair share. ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2016, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/join-the-sdmb-panel-of-experts-for-live-debate-coverage-9-26-2016/766946/662 "2016-09-27T03:37:47Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > Coke-knowers: is this how people act on coke? Yes. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2016, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/join-the-sdmb-panel-of-experts-for-live-debate-coverage-9-26-2016/766946/663 "2016-09-27T03:37:54Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > I bet the others wouldn’t fall behind in payments. When terms of a deal aren’t enforced why should US soldiers have to die? Buy some tanks and airplanes and take your sovereignty seriously if you want to keep it. Thanks for the honest answer. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2016, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/join-the-sdmb-panel-of-experts-for-live-debate-coverage-9-26-2016/766946/664 "2016-09-27T03:39:06Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > Every once in a while you come across somebody so irretrievably bad, that NOTHING can change the situation. That’s why we supported one megalomaniac mass-murderer over another megalomaniac mass-murderer in WWII. That puts “they both did well” under some painful scrutiny. One side you dislike a little, the other side is so irretrievably bad that NOTHING can change the situation, and the end result was that both did well and there was no winner? That seems worrying. You’re defining almost a gimme opponent there. I mean, to borrow the terms of your comparison, I’m no great debater but if I couldn’t convince people that I was better than Hitler (or Stalin, for that matter), I think I’d have some serious problems to look at. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2016, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/join-the-sdmb-panel-of-experts-for-live-debate-coverage-9-26-2016/766946/665 "2016-09-27T03:39:52Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > Thanks for the honest answer. You’re welcome. And on the subject of Clinton vs. Trump at the debate, I think she clearly won. But how will it be perceived by the rest of the voters is what matters. And that is unpredictable. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2016, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/join-the-sdmb-panel-of-experts-for-live-debate-coverage-9-26-2016/766946/666 "2016-09-27T03:41:25Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > That puts “they both did well” under some painful scrutiny. One side you dislike a little, the other side is so irretrievably bad that NOTHING can change the situation, and the end result was that both did well and there was no winner? > > That seems worrying. You’re defining almost a gimme opponent there. I mean, to borrow the terms of your comparison, I’m no great debater but if I couldn’t convince people that I was better than Hitler (or Stalin, for that matter), I think I’d have some serious problems to look at. Can you give a better speech to Hitler’s audience than Hitler? ---
**Author:** ![tenacious\_j](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/439d5e/32.png) [@tenacious\_j](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tenacious_j)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2016, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/join-the-sdmb-panel-of-experts-for-live-debate-coverage-9-26-2016/766946/667 "2016-09-27T03:41:30Z")
Wow, whatever he’s paying Kelly Ann Conway, it’s not enough. She deflects like Kevin Durant! I have heard a lot of spin, but this girl is a pro. Someone please hold my hair while I throw up. ---
**Author:** ![AnalogSignal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/analogsignal/32/1085_2.png) [@AnalogSignal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnalogSignal)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2016, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/join-the-sdmb-panel-of-experts-for-live-debate-coverage-9-26-2016/766946/668 "2016-09-27T03:41:30Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > It was patently obvious that his brain was working far faster than his mouth. He was trying to say things as fast as he was thinking of them, and in the effort to keep up, he appeared incoherent. For the entire 90 plus minutes, not once did I think, “What is Hillary talking about?” I could follow her the whole time. But Trump was all over the place changing topics so fast that he couldn’t finish a sentence. Maybe he has ADD or maybe he was coked up. Who knows? ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2016, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/join-the-sdmb-panel-of-experts-for-live-debate-coverage-9-26-2016/766946/669 "2016-09-27T03:44:29Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Well, I read several folks saying he would go the “scandal” route, which seems so, he brought them all up. Did he miss any, outside of Whitewater and Vince Foster? He is saving those for the next debate. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2016, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/join-the-sdmb-panel-of-experts-for-live-debate-coverage-9-26-2016/766946/670 "2016-09-27T03:45:37Z")
> [@Ukulele\_Ike](#): > > Yes. Ok, but what tells us it is coke and not some other explanation? ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2016, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/join-the-sdmb-panel-of-experts-for-live-debate-coverage-9-26-2016/766946/671 "2016-09-27T03:45:40Z")
> [@AnalogSignal](#): > > Trump did especially bad on race issues. I can’t imagine him winning a single black vote from this performance. They are not the target and winning them not his goal. His goal was to simultaneously keep his racist vote revved with “law and order” and “stop and frisk” as the answer, while not saying anything so overtly racist that some college educated suburban Whites, some of whom do view the cities as war zones, are not repulsed. Not sure he achieved the goal mind you, but there is no actual intent to reach out to Black voters. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2016, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/join-the-sdmb-panel-of-experts-for-live-debate-coverage-9-26-2016/766946/672 "2016-09-27T03:46:17Z")
> [@tenacious\_j](#): > > Wow, whatever he’s paying Kelly Ann Conway, it’s not enough. She deflects like Kevin Durant! I have heard a lot of spin, but this girl is a pro. > Someone please hold my hair while I throw up. I read somewhere that he’s _not_ paying staff like Conway. Yeah, here’s the link: [One Secret of Trump’s Low Cost Campaign: Free Labor](http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-trump-staff-idUSKCN1181CV). ---
**Author:** ![Anny\_Middon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bc79bd/32.png) [@Anny\_Middon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anny_Middon)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2016, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/join-the-sdmb-panel-of-experts-for-live-debate-coverage-9-26-2016/766946/673 "2016-09-27T03:47:47Z")
> [@AnalogSignal](#): > > For the entire 90 plus minutes, not once did I think, “What is Hillary talking about?” I could follow her the whole time. But Trump was all over the place changing topics so fast that he couldn’t finish a sentence. Maybe he has ADD or maybe he was coked up. Who knows? Maybe he’s sundowning? ---
**Author:** ![tenacious\_j](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/439d5e/32.png) [@tenacious\_j](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tenacious_j)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2016, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/join-the-sdmb-panel-of-experts-for-live-debate-coverage-9-26-2016/766946/674 "2016-09-27T03:48:53Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > I read somewhere that he’s _not_ paying staff like Conway. Yeah, here’s the link: [One Secret of Trump’s Low Cost Campaign: Free Labor](http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-trump-staff-idUSKCN1181CV). Ignorance fought. With that, I shall go to bed having been edumacated. ---
**Author:** ![AnalogSignal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/analogsignal/32/1085_2.png) [@AnalogSignal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnalogSignal)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2016, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/join-the-sdmb-panel-of-experts-for-live-debate-coverage-9-26-2016/766946/675 "2016-09-27T03:51:07Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > They are not the target and winning them not his goal. > > His goal was to simultaneously keep his racist vote revved with “law and order” and “stop and frisk” as the answer, while not saying anything so overtly racist that some college educated suburban Whites, some of whom do view the cities as war zones, are not repulsed. Mission accomplished if that was the goal. There were a lot of “bad people” references by Trump that should appeal to racists. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2016, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/join-the-sdmb-panel-of-experts-for-live-debate-coverage-9-26-2016/766946/676 "2016-09-27T03:51:31Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Can you give a better speech to Hitler’s audience than Hitler? Not being able to speak German, no, I’d guess not. Seriously, though, I would have the benefit of not being a whackjob, which seems like a fairly key advantage. Obviously I don’t believe that morally or ethically or simply on my conscious I actually _could_, but as a theoretical question, I don’t see why not. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2016, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/join-the-sdmb-panel-of-experts-for-live-debate-coverage-9-26-2016/766946/677 "2016-09-27T03:54:34Z")
Clinton did better, but I’m worried that Trump had the better sound bites, like the “For 30 years you’ve been doing it, and now you just started thinking of solutions” thing. I think it’s soundbites that will get the replays and will convince the people who didn’t watch who won. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2016, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/join-the-sdmb-panel-of-experts-for-live-debate-coverage-9-26-2016/766946/678 "2016-09-27T03:54:39Z")
He performed well enough to give some people who would have likely supported him anyway a plausible excuse to “come out”; but he needs to go into the next debate ready to hit it big, he cannot settle for besting a low expectation. Of course, in the meantime the other side will probably come up with some dumb unforced errors just to make their own job harder, because that’s what they do. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2016, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/join-the-sdmb-panel-of-experts-for-live-debate-coverage-9-26-2016/766946/679 "2016-09-27T03:55:30Z")
> [@Anny\_Middon](#): > > Maybe he’s sundowning? Well, some people are saying… very good people. A lot of good people. Ok, I’ll stop. It’s just too easy. I am much heartened after tonight’s debate. Hillary didn’t knock it out of the park, but she did well and she seemed presidential. She never rose to his baiting and was well prepared for all of it. She got in some zingers and they didn’t seem forced. Her command of facts served her well. She looked good, dynamic, healthy and comfortable. And she’ll be even more prepared for him at the next debate. I doubt the same can be said of Trump. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2016, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/join-the-sdmb-panel-of-experts-for-live-debate-coverage-9-26-2016/766946/680 "2016-09-27T03:58:05Z")
Full disclosure: not that big a Clinton fan going in, but anti-Trump to a much greater degree. With that said, I would not call the first debate an unmitigated disaster for Trump; maybe just a mitigated disaster. While one can certainly argue about the content, I would have to think that no one could reasonably claim that Mrs. Clinton did not lay out clear, articulate policy statements, nor that (with maybe a handful of exceptions) she mostly failed to rise to Trump’s numerous attempts at baiting her, while getting in a few swipes of her own. I thought she was particularly effective in putting across the incoherence of Trump’s claims that we should have never been in Iraq to begin with, but at the same time broken our agreement with the Iraqi government that _we installed_, kept thousands of troops there and ‘taken their oil’. Likewise for her explanation of the importance of the deal putting the brakes on Iran’s nuclear program. On economic policy, she clearly (to me) fared less well; Trump’s points, much less a plan than a series of statements of intent, probably still appeal to the angry white guys that seem to make up the bulk of his constituency. Meanwhile, I guess Trump figures he gave it his best shot, relying on the same litany of half-truths, non-truths and sheer gibberish (I can’t show my taxes 'cause they’re being audited! Ford’s moving to Mexico! I did Obama a favor by getting him to show the birth certificate!) that played so well at his rallies. Between getting called out on at least some of the bullshit, and clearly losing a considerable amount of his vaunted “stamina” about 2/3 of the way in, any remaining hope that Mr. Trump might manage to reign in his own worst tendencies have to be completely dashed. At this point I simply cannot conceive what might be the appeal, to a rational voter, of a Trump Presidency except perhaps a) some nebulous domestic economic benefit based on a desperate hope that there is some sort of plan behind his blather, or b) the system is so broken that the country’s only hope is blowing it all up and seeing what might fall together out of the ashes. I don’t think he has any actual plans, and the current domestic and foreign policies have been reasonably good to me and most of the people I know, so I must, sadly, remain unpersuaded to vote R this year. 😃 That’s as much as I care to comment; now I’ll hang up and listen. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/join-the-sdmb-panel-of-experts-for-live-debate-coverage-9-26-2016/766946.md?page=33) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/join-the-sdmb-panel-of-experts-for-live-debate-coverage-9-26-2016/766946.md?page=35)