# \*\*\*Join the SDMB panel of experts for live debate coverage - 9/26/2016\*\*\*

**URL:** <https://boards.straightdope.com/t/join-the-sdmb-panel-of-experts-for-live-debate-coverage-9-26-2016/766946>\
**Category:** Politics & Elections\
**Created:** [September 26, 2016, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/join-the-sdmb-panel-of-experts-for-live-debate-coverage-9-26-2016/766946 "2016-09-26T17:39:37Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 20\
**Page:** 41

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**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\
**Post date:** [September 27, 2016, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/join-the-sdmb-panel-of-experts-for-live-debate-coverage-9-26-2016/766946/801 "2016-09-27T16:15:25Z")

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> [@oft\_wears\_hats](#):
>
> Holt did an excellent job, and set a strong example for the debates to come. After Lauer, I was really worried, but Holt was great…

> [@adaher](#):
>
> It was a good debate, Lester Holt was excellent…

I must disagree. He was calm and articulate in posing questions, but repeatedly let Trump run roughshod over him, running overtime and interrupting Hillary. Several times my wife and I said, “When is Lester going to speak up?”

And we’re not alone: [CNN Launches Manhunt After Lester Holt Vanishes from Debate | The New Yorker](http://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/cnn-launches-manhunt-after-lester-holt-vanishes-from-debate)

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**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\
**Post date:** [September 27, 2016, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/join-the-sdmb-panel-of-experts-for-live-debate-coverage-9-26-2016/766946/802 "2016-09-27T16:17:30Z")

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I did not actually watch the debate, apart from a few glances at the silent screen while dining out. The thing I heard about was that bad-hair-guy had looked forward to the economic collapse of '07-08 because it gave him a chance to make some sweet deals in real estate. What exactly was it that he said on the subject, and could it have an effect on how people see him?

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**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\
**Post date:** [September 27, 2016, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/join-the-sdmb-panel-of-experts-for-live-debate-coverage-9-26-2016/766946/803 "2016-09-27T16:18:01Z")

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> [@](#):
>
> Originally Posted by \*\*adaher \*\*  
> It’s just weird to have a rich candidate actually basing a major part of his candidacy on just how different he is from the rest of us. “Yeah, I paid no federal taxes, I’m smart! What the hell is wrong with the 53% of you who do pay federal taxes? Morons!”

> [@oft\_wears\_hats](#):
>
> Yeah, that and his “that’s called business” response to Hillary’s accusation that he took advantage of the housing crisis. I hope those comments get a lot of press in the coming days.

Also, his response to stiffing the contractors who worked for him: “Maybe he didn’t do a good job” But the NATO countries better pay what they owe, right Donald? Typical “businessman” Don’t pay what you owe, and come up with excuses why you stiff contractors, but demand that when you send a bill it is paid on time or you will sue.

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**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\
**Post date:** [September 27, 2016, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/join-the-sdmb-panel-of-experts-for-live-debate-coverage-9-26-2016/766946/804 "2016-09-27T16:21:51Z")

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> [@eschereal](#):
>
> I did not actually watch the debate, apart from a few glances at the silent screen while dining out. The thing I heard about was that bad-hair-guy had looked forward to the economic collapse of '07-08 because it gave him a chance to make some sweet deals in real estate. What exactly was it that he said on the subject, and could it have an effect on how people see him?

From the debate…  
Trump on Clinton saying he rooted for housing crisis: ‘That’s called business’  
Here’s a blurb on it - [Trump on Clinton saying he rooted for housing crisis: ‘That’s called business’\<!-- --\> - MarketWatch](http://www.marketwatch.com/story/trump-on-rooting-for-housing-crisis-thats-called-business-2016-09-26)

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**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\
**Post date:** [September 27, 2016, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/join-the-sdmb-panel-of-experts-for-live-debate-coverage-9-26-2016/766946/805 "2016-09-27T16:25:27Z")

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He’s saying that he wasn’t sniffling, they haeve him a defective microphone.

> **[Donald Trump thinks his sniffing was due to a 'defective mic'](https://mashable.com/article/donald-trump-sniffing-defective-mic)**
>
> "Was that on purpose? Was that on purpose? "

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**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\
**Post date:** [September 27, 2016, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/join-the-sdmb-panel-of-experts-for-live-debate-coverage-9-26-2016/766946/806 "2016-09-27T16:27:27Z")

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Because nothing is ever his fault. _EVER_. Not even his sniffling.

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**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\
**Post date:** [September 27, 2016, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/join-the-sdmb-panel-of-experts-for-live-debate-coverage-9-26-2016/766946/807 "2016-09-27T16:30:45Z")

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> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#):
>
> I must disagree. He was calm and articulate in posing questions, but repeatedly let Trump run roughshod over him, running overtime and interrupting Hillary. Several times my wife and I said, “When is Lester going to speak up?”
> 
> And we’re not alone: [CNN Launches Manhunt After Lester Holt Vanishes from Debate | The New Yorker](http://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/cnn-launches-manhunt-after-lester-holt-vanishes-from-debate)

I agree. Holt did not keep control of the debate.

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**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\
**Post date:** [September 27, 2016, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/join-the-sdmb-panel-of-experts-for-live-debate-coverage-9-26-2016/766946/808 "2016-09-27T16:35:15Z")

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> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#):
>
> LOL. Not much needs to be added to that.

O rily? :rolleyes:

CNN’s fact check showed Clinton with one " true, but misleading." While Trump was caught in about 18 lies.

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**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\
**Post date:** [September 27, 2016, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/join-the-sdmb-panel-of-experts-for-live-debate-coverage-9-26-2016/766946/809 "2016-09-27T16:36:37Z")

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> [@WillFarnaby](#):
>
> Clinton had problems with the truth…

CNN’s fact check showed Clinton with one " true, but misleading." While Trump was caught in about 18 lies.

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**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\
**Post date:** [September 27, 2016, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/join-the-sdmb-panel-of-experts-for-live-debate-coverage-9-26-2016/766946/810 "2016-09-27T16:37:34Z")

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> [@adaher](#):
>
> It’s just weird to have a rich candidate actually basing a major part of his candidacy on just how different he is from the rest of us. “Yeah, I paid no federal taxes, I’m smart! What the hell is wrong with the 53% of you who do pay federal taxes? Morons!”

“I’m not going to make the same mistake loser Romney did!”

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**Author:** ![oft\_wears\_hats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7993a0/32.png) [@oft\_wears\_hats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oft_wears_hats)\
**Post date:** [September 27, 2016, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/join-the-sdmb-panel-of-experts-for-live-debate-coverage-9-26-2016/766946/811 "2016-09-27T16:38:08Z")

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> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#):
>
> I must disagree. He was calm and articulate in posing questions, but repeatedly let Trump run roughshod over him, running overtime and interrupting Hillary. Several times my wife and I said, “When is Lester going to speak up?”
> 
> And we’re not alone: [CNN Launches Manhunt After Lester Holt Vanishes from Debate | The New Yorker](http://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/cnn-launches-manhunt-after-lester-holt-vanishes-from-debate)

Holt had a very thin line to walk, and I think he did a very good job considering all the points he had to hit. Don’t let Trump get away with blatant lying, dodging questions, or violating the debate format, all while avoiding the appearance of bias. He had to try not to make it look like he was singling out Trump, while Trump’s behavior intrinsically demands special treatment. What else could Holt have done to corral Trump? Unfortunately, he can’t cut the mic, shoot him with a tranquilizer dart, or have him removed from the stage.

Of course, the Trump camp is complaining about Holt’s bias, but that was going to happen regardless. They complained about _ **Matt Lauer** _ asking tough questions, and he was practically doing a puff piece on Trump.

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**Author:** ![MikeF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MikeF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeF)\
**Post date:** [September 27, 2016, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/join-the-sdmb-panel-of-experts-for-live-debate-coverage-9-26-2016/766946/812 "2016-09-27T16:38:09Z")

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I live near Atlantic City and worked in the casino business for a couple of years. Some of my friends still do. The stories of Trump’s failing to pay local contractors for work done, or paying a fraction of what was agreed upon are pretty common. Many of these businesses were of the “mom and pop” variety, putting everything they had into the Trump basket with the expectation that he would actually honor the contracts. Probably not the smartest business move but it was a boom time and everyone was trying to cash in. And it was Donald Trump after all! Then he stiffed them and few, if any had the resources to hire lawyers to fight Trump. They were wiped out financially. What is Trump’s response?

“But on occasion, four times, we used certain laws that are there. And when Secretary Clinton talks about people that didn’t get paid, first of all, they did get paid a lot, but taken advantage of the laws of the nation.”

Could any Trumpers please translate just what that disjointed, incoherent statement actually means? Anyone?

My best guess is that he is saying “I took advantage of bankruptcy laws maximize my profit and some people got ruined. So what? I gamed the system. That’s what business is all about.”

Legal? I guess so. But is this the type of person we need running our country? Or walking your dog?

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**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\
**Post date:** [September 27, 2016, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/join-the-sdmb-panel-of-experts-for-live-debate-coverage-9-26-2016/766946/813 "2016-09-27T16:44:13Z")

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> [@JohnT](#):
>
> If there was press at this workout, are there clippings? Just how “fat” was “Miss Piggy” and “Miss Housekeeper” anyway?
> 
> Watch something come up and… she’s like 122 pounds or something.
> 
> Also, [this](https://twitter.com/JustinCentric/status/780588157548974081).

Trump says she went from 118 to “160 or 170”. Here is a [video from Clinton’s website](https://www.facebook.com/hillaryclinton/videos/1260190977370762/) with some brief clips of the workout (at :58). She doesn’t look heavy at all.

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**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\
**Post date:** [September 27, 2016, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/join-the-sdmb-panel-of-experts-for-live-debate-coverage-9-26-2016/766946/814 "2016-09-27T16:46:04Z")

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[![]( " - YouTube") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3tmFnyKU8c)

Footage of the Machado workout. Look at those leering assholes. My God.

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**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\
**Post date:** [September 27, 2016, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/join-the-sdmb-panel-of-experts-for-live-debate-coverage-9-26-2016/766946/815 "2016-09-27T16:46:37Z")

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> [@WillFarnaby](#):
>
> Clinton had problems with the truth, especially when she was warmongering.

Woah, guys, back off of Will. I see the problem here.

Will, Clinton was the one standing on the **right**. You’re thinking of Trump, the one standing on the left.

Easy mistake, could happen to anyone!

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**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\
**Post date:** [September 27, 2016, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/join-the-sdmb-panel-of-experts-for-live-debate-coverage-9-26-2016/766946/816 "2016-09-27T16:58:37Z")

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This exchange made me laugh. It’s not a campaign killer, just bad optics for Trump:

[https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/09/26/the-first-trump-clinton-presidential-debate-transcript-annotated/#annotations:10506038:](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/09/26/the-first-trump-clinton-presidential-debate-transcript-annotated/#annotations:10506038:)

> [@](#):
>
> HOLT: I’m sorry. I’m just going to follow up – and I will let you respond to that, because there’s a lot there. But we’re talking about racial healing in this segment. What do you say to Americans, people of color who…
> 
> (CROSSTALK)
> 
> TRUMP: Well, it was very – I say nothing. I say nothing, because I was able to get him to produce it. He should have produced it a long time before. I say nothing.
> 
> But let me just tell you. When you talk about healing, I think that I’ve developed very, very good relationships over the last little while with the African-American community. I think you can see that.

Trump completely talked over the African American who’s trying to facilitate a conversation-- actually steer it back on course-- on racial healing in our country. Maybe, _just maybe_, the race conversation is the one time you dial it back. But nope.

[Here’s a video clip.](https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4622073/trump-talks-holt)

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Rushgeekgirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rushgeekgirl/32/3715_2.png) [@Rushgeekgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rushgeekgirl)\
**Post date:** [September 27, 2016, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/join-the-sdmb-panel-of-experts-for-live-debate-coverage-9-26-2016/766946/817 "2016-09-27T17:13:09Z")

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I think it’s very telling when people point out how “smug” Clinton looked last night but fail to mention how Trump looked. The man came right out and said Clinton doesn’t have 'the look" of a president. He sniffed and rolled his eyes and squinted and snorted. He was so cocky and smarmy and condescending, but Clinton was smug?! I guess that’s the way it works. SHE looks smug. HE looks confident.

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**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\
**Post date:** [September 27, 2016, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/join-the-sdmb-panel-of-experts-for-live-debate-coverage-9-26-2016/766946/818 "2016-09-27T17:15:07Z")

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> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#):
>
> I must disagree. He was calm and articulate in posing questions, but repeatedly let Trump run roughshod over him, running overtime and interrupting Hillary. Several times my wife and I said, “When is Lester going to speak up?”
> 
> And we’re not alone: [CNN Launches Manhunt After Lester Holt Vanishes from Debate | The New Yorker](http://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/cnn-launches-manhunt-after-lester-holt-vanishes-from-debate)

But isn’t this a \*good \*thing, to let Trump show his true jerkish colors?

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**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\
**Post date:** [September 27, 2016, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/join-the-sdmb-panel-of-experts-for-live-debate-coverage-9-26-2016/766946/819 "2016-09-27T17:23:22Z")

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> [@Rushgeekgirl](#):
>
> I think it’s very telling when people point out how “smug” Clinton looked last night but fail to mention how Trump looked. The man came right out and said Clinton doesn’t have 'the look" of a president. He sniffed and rolled his eyes and squinted and snorted. He was so cocky and smarmy and condescending, but Clinton was smug?! I guess that’s the way it works. SHE looks smug. HE looks confident.

Trump never smiles. I asked my wife why he doesn’t smile and she said(since she watched him for years on The Apprentice) that Trump smiling isn’t ingratiating, it’s disconcerting.

I think Trump is completely wrong for his sexist comments about Clinton’s “look”, but due to her general lack of sincerity, pretty much all of her expressions are grating except her neutral expression. Ever since her response to a NAFTA question caused her to laugh at the moderator in 2008, it’s just always signalled that she’s being dishonest.

And I don’t think that for the average voter, dislike of her manner is about her sex. Not all female politicians run into that problem. Mainly the ones who can’t relate to people.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Sam\_Lowry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Sam\_Lowry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Lowry)\
**Post date:** [September 27, 2016, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/join-the-sdmb-panel-of-experts-for-live-debate-coverage-9-26-2016/766946/820 "2016-09-27T17:25:14Z")

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> [@eschereal](#):
>
> I did not actually watch the debate, apart from a few glances at the silent screen while dining out. The thing I heard about was that bad-hair-guy had looked forward to the economic collapse of '07-08 because it gave him a chance to make some sweet deals in real estate. What exactly was it that he said on the subject, and could it have an effect on how people see him?

The[transcript of the debate is here](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/09/26/the-first-trump-clinton-presidential-debate-transcript-annotated/). The opening segment was about America’s economy, and questioning why each candidate would thinks they’d be a better choice for the economy. There was back and forth on what they’d do, and then this:

> [@](#):
>
> CLINTON: Well, let’s stop for a second and remember where we were eight years ago. We had the worst financial crisis, the Great Recession, the worst since the 1930s. That was in large part because of tax policies that slashed taxes on the wealthy, failed to invest in the middle class, took their eyes off of Wall Street, and created a perfect storm.
> 
> In fact, Donald was one of the people who rooted for the housing crisis. He said, back in 2006, “Gee, I hope it does collapse, because then I can go in and buy some and make some money.” Well, it did collapse.
> 
> TRUMP: That’s called business, by the way.
> 
> CLINTON: Nine million people – nine million people lost their jobs. Five million people lost their homes. And $13 trillion in family wealth was wiped out.
> 
> Now, we have come back from that abyss. And it has not been easy. So we’re now on the precipice of having a potentially much better economy, but the last thing we need to do is to go back to the policies that failed us in the first place.

Also, somewhat related in regards to him exploiting people:

> [@](#):
>
> CLINTON: … is if your – if your main claim to be president of the United States is your business, then I think we should talk about that. You know, your campaign manager said that you built a lot of businesses on the backs of little guys.
> 
> And, indeed, I have met a lot of the people who were stiffed by you and your businesses, Donald. I’ve met dishwashers, painters, architects, glass installers, marble installers, drapery installers, like my dad was, who you refused to pay when they finished the work that you asked them to do.
> 
> We have an architect in the audience who designed one of your clubhouses at one of your golf courses. It’s a beautiful facility. It immediately was put to use. And you wouldn’t pay what the man needed to be paid, what he was charging you to do…
> 
> TRUMP: Maybe he didn’t do a good job and I was unsatisfied with his work…

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