# \*\*\*Join the SDMB panel of experts for live debate coverage - 9/26/2016\*\*\* **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 26, 2016, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/join-the-sdmb-panel-of-experts-for-live-debate-coverage-9-26-2016/766946 "2016-09-26T17:39:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 45
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2016, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/join-the-sdmb-panel-of-experts-for-live-debate-coverage-9-26-2016/766946/881 "2016-09-27T21:09:38Z")
Hey, was Cuban there? I remember hearing about how Trump would bring in Ms Flowers as a counter attack, and then there was some mention of bringing Benghazi Mom in as well. What happened with that? And this: > [@](#): > > …Now, in all fairness to Secretary Clinton – yes, is that OK? Good. I want you to be very happy. It’s very important to me… [https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/09/26/the-first-trump-clinton-presidential-debate-transcript-annotated/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/09/26/the-first-trump-clinton-presidential-debate-transcript-annotated/) What was that about, if anything? Is he asking whether he is using the correct form of address, since SecState is the highest office she has held? Seemed clear there was some note of sarcasm, like “Am I being politically correct, because you know I gotta be correct, to make you happy”? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2016, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/join-the-sdmb-panel-of-experts-for-live-debate-coverage-9-26-2016/766946/882 "2016-09-27T21:12:20Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Given where Clinton was in 1992, that town hall performance saved his candidacy. The first 10 seconds of Clinton’s response was designed to highlight the difference between Bill, the common everyman, and Bush, the impatient technocrat. (This was also the debate where Bush kept looking at his watch.) > > So, yeah. Looking at the Gallup polling from 1992 Clinton led by a large margin starting in July, when Perot temporarily dropped out, and onwards. How does that fit in with your idea that this performance saved his candidacy? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2016, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/join-the-sdmb-panel-of-experts-for-live-debate-coverage-9-26-2016/766946/883 "2016-09-27T21:12:38Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > …You just call Sean Hannity, and I promise you, he’ll clear this whole thing up, okay? Well, there you go, that man’s strict candor and veracity is legendary! ---
**Author:** ![OffByOne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/45deac/32.png) [@OffByOne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OffByOne)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2016, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/join-the-sdmb-panel-of-experts-for-live-debate-coverage-9-26-2016/766946/884 "2016-09-27T21:14:45Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > Is his idea that paying taxes is only for dumb people going to hurt him? No. None of us think we are dumb. Let the Dumb pay taxes! ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2016, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/join-the-sdmb-panel-of-experts-for-live-debate-coverage-9-26-2016/766946/885 "2016-09-27T21:15:06Z")
> [@Sam\_Lowry](#): > > [li]She’s been prepping so hard, I’m sure she has an answer for anything[/li] From everything I’ve read about her campaign, there are just some subjects that are taboo within the campaign. Evidence supporting this is her lack of preparedness when the media has questioned her about her issues. “What, with a cloth?” Get her to resort to laughing and quips as a substitute for answering questions she doesn’t have good answers to. Even moderators have managed to do this to her in the past, such as when she was asked if Ross Perot was right about NAFTA. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2016, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/join-the-sdmb-panel-of-experts-for-live-debate-coverage-9-26-2016/766946/886 "2016-09-27T21:28:28Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > CNN just reported Giuliani is recommending Trump skip the remaining two debates. No word on if the Trump camp is actually considering this. I think this could go either way, but chances are Trump would look like a coward for skipping. His best bet would be to show up and just let it all hang out, get Trump unleashed and let the chips fall where they may. He could quit then if he wants, but quitting now would be raising the white flag and admitting he got his ass kicked by a girl. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2016, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/join-the-sdmb-panel-of-experts-for-live-debate-coverage-9-26-2016/766946/887 "2016-09-27T21:38:06Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Looking at the Gallup polling from 1992 Clinton led by a large margin starting in July, when Perot temporarily dropped out, and onwards. How does that fit in with your idea that this performance saved his candidacy? Was one of the principal themes talked by James Carville in the CNN documentary series [Race for the White House](http://www.cnn.com/shows/race-for-the-white-house). ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2016, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/join-the-sdmb-panel-of-experts-for-live-debate-coverage-9-26-2016/766946/888 "2016-09-27T21:51:55Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Was one of the principal themes talked by James Carville in the CNN documentary series [Race for the White House](http://www.cnn.com/shows/race-for-the-white-house). And? Clinton was leading before the townhall, he was leading after. What is James Carville saying that changes that fact? ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2016, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/join-the-sdmb-panel-of-experts-for-live-debate-coverage-9-26-2016/766946/889 "2016-09-27T21:59:34Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > I think this could go either way, but chances are Trump would look like a coward for skipping. His best bet would be to show up and just let it all hang out, get Trump unleashed and let the chips fall where they may I think so too, at least at this point. He matched the expected performance tactically yesterday, but strategically it was a debacle. Tactically, because he outperformed expectations. But strategically, in order to sway polls his way, he needed to either convince more angry people that he is with them, or else appear somewhat coherent and intelligent. He was sort of in the middle, and I think he was actually trying hard to be eloquent and sober and deep! So since I now don’t think he is _capable_, even if he tries, of seeming halfway as presidential as Hillary, I think his best bet now is to just go batshit again and swing for the fences. ---
**Author:** ![Anny\_Middon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bc79bd/32.png) [@Anny\_Middon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anny_Middon)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2016, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/join-the-sdmb-panel-of-experts-for-live-debate-coverage-9-26-2016/766946/890 "2016-09-27T22:02:24Z")
I think it was at the end of the debate, but it may have been Trump talking to a reporter afterwards (I was watching CNN if that matters) that Trump went on about the ads Clinton is running that say terrible, just terrible things about him. What ads is he referring to? I live in Illinois, so the Clinton campaign isn’t running a lot of advertisement here. The only 2 I remember are 1) a bunch of well-know Republicans talking about how bad Trump is and how they can’t support him, and 2) one which is primarily video of Trump himself saying some of his misogynist/racist comments. In neither case did Clinton say anything bad about him – it was either his “fellow” Republicans, or himself. So what are the ads that say such horrible things? ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2016, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/join-the-sdmb-panel-of-experts-for-live-debate-coverage-9-26-2016/766946/891 "2016-09-27T22:03:35Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > …\… > I think “fiasco” is slightly overstated. Trump lost but he didn’t outright embarrass himself. He DID embarrass himself; it’s just that he lacks the self-awareness to realize it. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2016, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/join-the-sdmb-panel-of-experts-for-live-debate-coverage-9-26-2016/766946/892 "2016-09-27T22:08:30Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Heck, he apparently thought he had the all-time great convincer about the war in Iraq: look, I know what I said on Howard Stern’s show – but just call Sean Hannity, he’ll tell you what I later said to him; just call him! You just call Sean Hannity, and I promise you, he’ll clear this whole thing up, okay? If he could set his ego aside for 10 seconds it would be very simple for him to say hey, I was a private citizen. I didn’t have access to intelligence briefings. I trusted my government, that includes you Hillary. One aspect of these dog and pony shows that always annoyed me is how there’s no room for nuance. Maybe Trump tepidly supported the war at first and really did come out against it around the time of invasion. Maybe Hillary said the TPP was the gold standard at one point, but revised her opinion later after more negotiations changed it. I’m not inclined to believe either of them, but the black and white thinking is frustrating. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2016, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/join-the-sdmb-panel-of-experts-for-live-debate-coverage-9-26-2016/766946/893 "2016-09-27T22:08:39Z")
> [@Anny\_Middon](#): > > I think it was at the end of the debate, but it may have been Trump talking to a reporter afterwards (I was watching CNN if that matters) that Trump went on about the ads Clinton is running that say terrible, just terrible things about him. I haven’t seen any ads – California is pretty safely blue. It was the end of the debate. Trump used his closing moments to (a) whine about Hillary and Rosie O’Donnell (seriously?) being mean to him; and (b) pat himself on the back for not mentioning the terrible, terrible things he could have mentioned. \*Apophasis \*is a rhetorical device wherein the speaker or writer brings up a subject by either denying it, or denying that it should be brought up. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2016, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/join-the-sdmb-panel-of-experts-for-live-debate-coverage-9-26-2016/766946/894 "2016-09-27T22:11:45Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > He DID embarrass himself; it’s just that he lacks the self-awareness to realize it. “Trump is an egomaniac with an inferiority complex.” - Mark Shields ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2016, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/join-the-sdmb-panel-of-experts-for-live-debate-coverage-9-26-2016/766946/895 "2016-09-27T22:12:14Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > …\ > One aspect of these dog and pony shows that always annoyed me is how there’s no room for nuance. Maybe Trump tepidly supported the war at first and really did come out against it around the time of invasion. Maybe Hillary said the TPP was the gold standard at one point, but revised her opinion later after more negotiations changed it. I’m not inclined to believe either of them, but the black and white thinking is frustrating. No nuance, absolutely, plus, there’s no room for changing your mind. For learning and changing and growing. If you thought “a” ten years ago, but now you believe “b,” then YOULIEDYOULIEDYOULIED. I seem to recall that recently someone pulled out something Hillary said in college and claimed that she lied (either then or now…I don’t remember) because she believes something different now. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2016, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/join-the-sdmb-panel-of-experts-for-live-debate-coverage-9-26-2016/766946/896 "2016-09-27T22:12:44Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > If he could set his ego aside for 10 seconds it would be very simple for him to say hey, I was a private citizen. I didn’t have access to intelligence briefings. I trusted my government, that includes you Hillary. Two things about Iraq & Trump surprise me: that the Clinton campaign seized upon the Howard Stern interview as “aha! Trump says Invade!” when his actual words were along the lines of “yeah, OK, whatever.” And why, in 2003, did anybody give a shit what Trump thought about Iraq? ---
**Author:** ![JKilez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e5b9ba/32.png) [@JKilez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKilez)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2016, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/join-the-sdmb-panel-of-experts-for-live-debate-coverage-9-26-2016/766946/897 "2016-09-27T22:13:23Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Meanwhile, his opponent is being trained by the person who committed the [greatest Presidential debate town hall move ever](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ta_SFvgbrlY&t=0m6s). Why isn’t that guy running? I would vote for him! 😃 That moment still gives me chills. Clinton had a way of always seeming genuine. He could demonstrate his knowledge, and at the same time make a connection without seeming like he was pandering or condescending. His wife has all of the intelligence and drive, but little of the charisma and relatability. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2016, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/join-the-sdmb-panel-of-experts-for-live-debate-coverage-9-26-2016/766946/898 "2016-09-27T22:15:17Z")
I think he embarrassed himself afterwards, by crying unfairness and doubling down on the Venezuelan beauty let herself get fat thing. But during the debate he was pretty much “normal, slightly restrained” Trump. He blew it by getting drawn into lame defenses of past statements but I would say the only really embarrassing thing was his “I almost said horrible stuff about her and her family”. Of course, I’m probably biased by low expectations. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2016, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/join-the-sdmb-panel-of-experts-for-live-debate-coverage-9-26-2016/766946/899 "2016-09-27T22:17:35Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > I think “fiasco” is slightly overstated. Trump lost but he didn’t outright embarrass himself. Were you watching the same debate as the rest of us? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2016, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/join-the-sdmb-panel-of-experts-for-live-debate-coverage-9-26-2016/766946/900 "2016-09-27T22:22:00Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > . > > One aspect of these dog and pony shows that always annoyed me is how there’s no room for nuance. Maybe Trump tepidly supported the war at first and really did come out against it around the time of invasion. Maybe Hillary said the TPP was the gold standard at one point, but revised her opinion later after more negotiations changed it. I’m not inclined to believe either of them, but the black and white thinking is frustrating. I’m not sure nuance is even quite the word for it. As you say, Trump was just some real estate guy mostly famous for his tabloid love life talking on the Howard frigging Stern show. So between radio stripper interviews, Trump gave tepid endorsement of the war with a massive “but what the hell do I know” vibe to them. Now that certainly torpedoes any claim that he was always against the war but it’s pretty weak to say he supported it. Ok, on second thought “nuance” is the correct word. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/join-the-sdmb-panel-of-experts-for-live-debate-coverage-9-26-2016/766946.md?page=44) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/join-the-sdmb-panel-of-experts-for-live-debate-coverage-9-26-2016/766946.md?page=46)