# \*\*\*Join the SDMB panel of experts for live debate coverage - 9/26/2016\*\*\* **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 26, 2016, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/join-the-sdmb-panel-of-experts-for-live-debate-coverage-9-26-2016/766946 "2016-09-26T17:39:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 47
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2016, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/join-the-sdmb-panel-of-experts-for-live-debate-coverage-9-26-2016/766946/921 "2016-09-28T01:18:49Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > Apparently the #trumpwon hashtag originated from [St. Petersburg Russia](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CtYCv3oUEAAgsvm.jpg:large) True or not, this is useless information. The ability to falsify and misattribute information is more powerful and accessible than ever. There are more evil, black-hearted actors out there than there ever have been. Location spoofing is trolling 101; I’d have done it myself if I’d thought of it. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2016, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/join-the-sdmb-panel-of-experts-for-live-debate-coverage-9-26-2016/766946/922 "2016-09-28T01:25:06Z")
I just checked out the [video of the FOX News segment](http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2016/09/27/donald-trump-miss-universe-alicia-machado-was-absolute-worst.html) where he went to whine about the unfairness of it all, and I’m sure glad I did. It is is just so much fun, to watch the three hosts kind of gingerly dance around the subtext of their questioning, which is essentially “wow, Donald, you really screwed the pooch: what were you thinking, and what are you going to do to get your shit together for the next one?” And Trump does realize that’s what they’re really getting at, so as per usual he gets defensive and insists that you can’t just shoehorn another topic in if it’s not in the question (presumably leading Kellyanne Conway to shake her head, like “Oh, Donald, you poor naive soul”). It’s hilarious that he thinks the best metric of how well he did is the “polls” (as in, completely unscientific, unweighted deals that anyone can vote in as many times as they like). This makes about as much sense as judging by the size of his rallies, which of course he also does. I also had to chuckle at how he blatantly flirted with Ainsley Earnhardt, saying he was reluctant to mention that the lawsuit was actually more than forty years ago, because he didn’t want Ainsley to say “whoa, I didn’t know Donald was that old!”. :rolleyes: > [@RickJay](#): > > Why would you think Trump’s performance was the result of a refusal to prepare when it’s so much more simply and logically explained by the fact that he is a rookie who was up against a seasoned veteran? Because it came across not as a politician struggling to spout his talking points, and doing so at inappropriate moments or repetitively (cf. Sarah Palin or Marco Rubio), but just someone “winging it”. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2016, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/join-the-sdmb-panel-of-experts-for-live-debate-coverage-9-26-2016/766946/923 "2016-09-28T01:38:22Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Yes. I enjoyed [John Podhoretz’s postmortem](http://nypost.com/2016/09/27/trumps-debate-incompetence-a-slap-in-the-face-to-his-supporters/) (he is a conservative, BTW, and no fan of Hillary). Especially loved his quip about “the vanity and laziness that led him to think he could wing the most important 95 minutes of his life”. Podhoretz says that showed contempt for the audience. Like a showperson or athlete putting in a sloppy, telephoned-in performance. But really, he feeds off the screaming cheering crowd that’s rooting for him. Take that away and what made for quick scores and early leads facing the primary platoon is not as impressive. \* Even if he prepared, but badly, it would look the same. \* So far his claim that all the polls put him winning is partly bravado and partly a strategy to reassure the Trumpetistas out there, who WILL make themselves believe it is so if coming from him.But someone as committed to avoiding the “loser” label can be dangerous if he feels cornered… ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2016, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/join-the-sdmb-panel-of-experts-for-live-debate-coverage-9-26-2016/766946/924 "2016-09-28T01:40:22Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > The point was that the capacity is growing, and Germany is not just relying on solar, but wind too. They are depending less on oil and coal as time goes by. > > [Germany’s energy consumption and power mix in charts | Clean Energy Wire](https://www.cleanenergywire.org/factsheets/germanys-energy-consumption-and-power-mix-charts) Oh was that the point? I thought the point was to vastly overstate Germany’s use of solar power. ---
**Author:** ![sinjin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@sinjin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sinjin)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2016, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/join-the-sdmb-panel-of-experts-for-live-debate-coverage-9-26-2016/766946/925 "2016-09-28T01:53:17Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I don’t question that females are judged differently from males to their disadvantage. For example, while male politicians who are dumb get criticized for their ignorance, female politicians who are not that bright get flamed so bad it’s just ridiculous. GWB could be super ignorant at times, and so is Donald Trump and Ben Carson, but I never saw them get the same level of hate as Sarah Palin or Michelle Bachmann or Nancy Pelosi. I cannot believe you put Nancy Pelosi in the same company as Bush much less Carson, Trump, Palin and Bachmann. Bad adaher, bad. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2016, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/join-the-sdmb-panel-of-experts-for-live-debate-coverage-9-26-2016/766946/926 "2016-09-28T01:55:45Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > I think so too, at least at this point. He matched the expected performance tactically yesterday, but strategically it was a debacle. Tactically, because he outperformed expectations. But strategically, in order to sway polls his way, he needed to either convince more angry people that he is with them, or else appear somewhat coherent and intelligent. He was sort of in the middle, and I think he was actually trying hard to be eloquent and sober and deep! So since I now don’t think he is _capable_, even if he tries, of seeming halfway as presidential as Hillary, I think his best bet now is to just go batshit again and swing for the fences. I agree with this. The only thing I disagree with is the general media-driven narrative that there were no expectations for Trump because I think there were at least some. I obviously can’t get into the minds of people who are undecided and leaning Trump but not committed to him on the one hand, or leaning Hillary but not committed to her on the other. But I’ll tell you what I was genuinely worried about. I thought for sure that Trump would fire away on things like Bengazi and score some attacks with some major league harangues. I was afraid he’s say something like “Four of our best Americans, there serving our country, and you let 'em die - and then you lied about it to cover your ass.” And I even half-way expected him to utter the mild profanity to boot. I thought he was going to go on about the uptick in crime, talk about illegal aliens committing murders. There was some raw meat for him to toss at the crowd and chew on, and it just seemed like Hillary was so effective early on at giving him some sharp elbows and then forcing him to respond. It’s almost like whatever game plan he had, he forgot about it and spent time defending himself, hence his frustration with Holt, whom I guess let Trump down in his eyes. My fear was a blistering 15-25 second uninterrupted torrent of nationalistic rhetoric that would on the one hand fire up ordinary Joes and Janes yet do so in a way that wasn’t patently anti-Muslim or anti-Hispanic. Maybe he was told ‘Don’t go there’ Who knows. But I think Trump did have expectations. Hell even those of us who can’t stand him expected to be entertained, but I don’t think we were. Hillary entertained us more by exposing him and wearing a smug grin the entire time. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2016, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/join-the-sdmb-panel-of-experts-for-live-debate-coverage-9-26-2016/766946/927 "2016-09-28T02:08:14Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Oh was that the point? I thought the point was to vastly overstate Germany’s use of solar power. The point I also think is that we in the US can do much better, but we are not because we need to have even better policies to accelerate the changes that are needed. [https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2013/02/08/germany-has-five-times-as-much-solar-power-as-the-u-s-despite-alaska-levels-of-sun/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2013/02/08/germany-has-five-times-as-much-solar-power-as-the-u-s-despite-alaska-levels-of-sun/) > [@](#): > > **Germany has five times as much solar power as the U.S. — despite Alaska levels of sun** > [@](#): > > Why the difference? Policy is the big factor. The German government has heavily subsidized renewable energy for years through a variety of measures. Perhaps most crucially, the country’s “feed-in tariffs” allow ordinary people to install solar panels on their rooftops and sell the power to the grid at favorable rates. (The costs are then shared by all electricity users.) > > Solar installations are also much cheaper in Germany — about half as cheap as they are in the United States. Partly that’s because the industry is bigger. But a recent report from Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory discovered a bunch of smaller factors, too. Permitting is easier in Germany. And German solar installers spend less on marketing, inspections, and grid-connection fees. That all adds up. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2016, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/join-the-sdmb-panel-of-experts-for-live-debate-coverage-9-26-2016/766946/928 "2016-09-28T02:08:52Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > I think he embarrassed himself afterwards, by crying unfairness and doubling down on the Venezuelan beauty let herself get fat thing. But during the debate he was pretty much “normal, slightly restrained” Trump. He blew it by getting drawn into lame defenses of past statements but I would say the only really embarrassing thing was his “I almost said horrible stuff about her and her family”. Of course, I’m probably biased by low expectations. I think this is dead-on balls accurate. The debate was bad enough, but as we know with the Donald, he tends to throw gasoline on the dumpster fire. I was wondering what the post-debate news cycle was going to be like and I think we’ve got our answer: just as bad, if not even worse, for Trump. I would not be surprised to see an Obama-esque 4-6 point poll drop in the next few days. But there’s a major difference between Obama’s 2012 drop and a possible drop for Trump: Obama was a stronger candidate entering the race, and an incumbent that America had grown accustomed to, warts and all. Trump, on the other hand, has been lucky to crack 45 percent in the polls, and he’ll be lucky to be over 40 by week’s end. The debate quite possibly just hit the reset button on whatever momentum he had, and he’s running out of time. People are even voting now. Will numbers somewhat rebound? Yeah, if Trump drops by 4-6 points then the residual will be 2-3 posts lost. But the outcome is different for someone who’s been trailing 2-4 points as opposed to someone who’s been winning by 2-4 points the entire time. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2016, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/join-the-sdmb-panel-of-experts-for-live-debate-coverage-9-26-2016/766946/929 "2016-09-28T02:33:14Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Barack Obama, of all people, got the shit kicked out of him by Mitt Romney in 2012 Debate 1. That was _hubris_ on his part. Obama is a great speaker, vs a robot, he thought he had it in the bag. But Romney was no fool, nosiree. Prep will win over oratory. ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2016, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/join-the-sdmb-panel-of-experts-for-live-debate-coverage-9-26-2016/766946/930 "2016-09-28T02:41:57Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Oh was that the point? I thought the point was to vastly overstate Germany’s use of solar power. Yeah, you said it. There’s NO WAY solar or wind or geothermal power will ever be anything but some hippie’s pipe dream. We may as well just resign ourselves to digging every particle of oil and coal out of the ground and burning it, after which we should all lay down and die. ---
**Author:** ![OffByOne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/45deac/32.png) [@OffByOne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OffByOne)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2016, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/join-the-sdmb-panel-of-experts-for-live-debate-coverage-9-26-2016/766946/931 "2016-09-28T02:45:59Z")
> [@Monocracy](#): > > Something i forgot to mention in my last post: > > Notice when the question came up about race relations in America, all Trump could talk about was crime. black people = criminals Hey, now! You know that DJT knows that not all crime is committed by blacks; there’s Latinos and Mooslims, too. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2016, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/join-the-sdmb-panel-of-experts-for-live-debate-coverage-9-26-2016/766946/932 "2016-09-28T02:55:03Z")
> [@Ukulele\_Ike](#): > > Yeah, you said it. There’s NO WAY solar or wind or geothermal power will ever be anything but some hippie’s pipe dream. > > We may as well just resign ourselves to digging every particle of oil and coal out of the ground and burning it, after which we should all lay down and die. [Especially if states like Oklahoma have their way, making it prohibitively expensive.](https://thinkprogress.org/oklahoma-will-charge-customers-who-install-their-own-solar-panels-4bbf8850a3d0#.2obschv2k) ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2016, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/join-the-sdmb-panel-of-experts-for-live-debate-coverage-9-26-2016/766946/933 "2016-09-28T03:08:26Z")
> [@Ukulele\_Ike](#): > > Yeah, you said it. There’s NO WAY solar or wind or geothermal power will ever be anything but some hippie’s pipe dream. > > We may as well just resign ourselves to digging every particle of oil and coal out of the ground and burning it, after which we should all lay down and die. I didn’t say that but your ignorant hippie pipe fueled equating of completely different systems is par for the course in discussions like this. ---
**Author:** ![CairoCarol](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cairocarol/32/3825_2.png) [@CairoCarol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CairoCarol)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2016, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/join-the-sdmb-panel-of-experts-for-live-debate-coverage-9-26-2016/766946/934 "2016-09-28T03:13:54Z")
Could someone give me a still, or very short video clip, that shows Clinton looking “smug”? So many people have made this claim that there must be evidence for it. However, I’m obviously too partisan to see it. I’m genuinely curious, though. With the usual disclaimers that looks shouldn’t matter but they do, I thought both looked physically well: he was less orange than usual, her eyes were sparkling (kudos to whoever did her make-up). Expression-wise, though, she seemed composed and enjoying the fight; he looked like a grumpy old dyspeptic who wished he could hack up a gob of phlegm, mutter a curse word or two, and shuffle away to watch a TV game show and scratch his balls in peace. ---
**Author:** ![OffByOne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/45deac/32.png) [@OffByOne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OffByOne)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2016, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/join-the-sdmb-panel-of-experts-for-live-debate-coverage-9-26-2016/766946/935 "2016-09-28T03:23:12Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > [https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-intersect/wp/2016/09/27/google-searches-for-registrarse-para-votar-hit-all-time-high-during-debate/?postshare=9761474971167190&tid=ss\_tw](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-intersect/wp/2016/09/27/google-searches-for-registrarse-para-votar-hit-all-time-high-during-debate/?postshare=9761474971167190&tid=ss_tw) > > Google searches for “registare para votar” hit all-time high during debate. That’s great news for Clinton! ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2016, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/join-the-sdmb-panel-of-experts-for-live-debate-coverage-9-26-2016/766946/936 "2016-09-28T03:27:00Z")
A bit odd, though. Trump didn’t say much of anything about immigration during the debate, so what was the trigger? ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2016, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/join-the-sdmb-panel-of-experts-for-live-debate-coverage-9-26-2016/766946/937 "2016-09-28T03:36:33Z")
> [@CairoCarol](#): > > Could someone give me a still, or very short video clip, that shows Clinton looking “smug”? So many people have made this claim that there must be evidence for it. However, I’m obviously too partisan to see it. I’m genuinely curious, though. Why… just look at any second of video where she’s shown smiling. _Smiling_, with malice aforethought, while a _man_ is speaking! What kind of uppity bitch thinks she can get away with that?! No, she never seemed smug to me. Just confident. Of course, confidence in a woman is misread as smug, because apparently we’re just supposed to smile sweetly when spoken to, and otherwise show sincere devotion and obedience toward our superiors. BTW, whoever called the smile “bemused” – “Bemused” doesn’t mean what you think it does. It means confused. And while it would’ve been understandable to be all “What the fuck is this guy saying?” up there, Clinton never seemed anything but well aware of what was going on beside her: Trump’s credibility (such as it was) caving in like a rotting pumpkin. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2016, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/join-the-sdmb-panel-of-experts-for-live-debate-coverage-9-26-2016/766946/938 "2016-09-28T03:37:13Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > A bit odd, though. Trump didn’t say much of anything about immigration during the debate, so what was the trigger? His very existence? ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2016, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/join-the-sdmb-panel-of-experts-for-live-debate-coverage-9-26-2016/766946/939 "2016-09-28T03:37:35Z")
Probably triggered by his treatment of Alicia Machado. Miss Piggy, Miss Housekeeping… Hillary really hammered that one home. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2016, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/join-the-sdmb-panel-of-experts-for-live-debate-coverage-9-26-2016/766946/940 "2016-09-28T03:39:45Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > A bit odd, though. Trump didn’t say much of anything about immigration during the debate, so what was the trigger? Parental units folllow a lot of Hispanic media, and Jorge Ramos is still big. Suffice to say is that he also has been going on this theme in hispanic media before and after the debate: > **[Jorge Ramos Blasts Donald Trump and Supporters in Op-Ed: 'Judgment Day Is...](https://www.thewrap.com/donald-trump-jorge-ramos-time-op-ed-presidential-election-judgement-day-coming/)** > > "It doesn't matter who you are -- a journalist, a politician or a voter -- we'll all be judged by how we responded to Donald Trump," Univision anchor writes > [@](#): > > Jorge Ramos has warned “Judgement Day is coming” for those supporting Donald Trump in any form, including those not speaking out against the GOP presidential candidate. > > “It doesn’t matter who you are — a journalist, a politician or a voter — we’ll all be judged by how we responded to Donald Trump,” the Univision and Fusion anchor wrote in a Time op-ed. “The day after the election will be too late.” > > Ramos continued:\*\* “Regardless of whether Donald Trump wins or loses, we will be asked on November 9th: What did you do? Did you support him? Were you brave enough, ethical enough, to challenge him when he insulted immigrants, Muslims, women, war heroes and people with disabilities? Are you on the record correcting his lies? Did you discuss with your friends and family that in a democracy like ours there is no room for racism and discrimination? Or did you just seat idly, silently, allowing others to decide the future of the United States?\*\* There was also El Trompo’s doubling down on insulting the former Miss Universe, Jorge Ramos interviewed her and that was also big on remindinding people what Trump will do, not only to Hispanics, but also to women. > **[Former Miss Universe Alicia Machado Told Univision In May That Trump Treated...](https://www.mediamatters.org/donald-trump/former-miss-universe-alicia-machado-told-univision-may-trump-treated-her-terribly)** > [@](#): > > Translated transcript: > > … > > RAMOS: What else did you see, in Donald Trump and his treatment of other people? > > MACHADO: I’m just going to be talking about my own experience. What I lived was not pleasant, it was humiliating. He’s a cold, calculating person, he’s a man that has very little consideration for anyone he thinks is inferior. > > RAMOS: He called you Miss Piggy once? > > MACHADO: He called me Miss Piggy, he called me Miss Housekeeping, he called me an eating machine. And I would argue with him saying that I’m Latina and have a little bit more than others. > > RAMOS: You considered in an insult at that time? > > MACHADO: Yes of course, and it was also how he said it. It’s not just what they say to you, it’s also how they say it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/join-the-sdmb-panel-of-experts-for-live-debate-coverage-9-26-2016/766946.md?page=46) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/join-the-sdmb-panel-of-experts-for-live-debate-coverage-9-26-2016/766946.md?page=48)