# Joint Chiefs of Staff: Get over your damn selves. (Cartoon) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 3, 2006, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joint-chiefs-of-staff-get-over-your-damn-selves-cartoon/342778 "2006-02-03T02:44:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![beagledave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6de8d8/32.png) [@beagledave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beagledave)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2006, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joint-chiefs-of-staff-get-over-your-damn-selves-cartoon/342778/1 "2006-02-03T02:44:10Z")
Setting the groundwork, I consider much of what Ted Rail has done to be offensive and beyond the pale…so I “get” being offended by idiotic editorial cartoons. But then I look at what the Joint Chiefs are in a snit over and I say huh? I don’t see the offense in what Ted Toles has done. [Letter](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/02/01/AR2006020102098.html) [Cartoon and followup from the cartoonist.](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/02/01/AR2006020102465.html) Look at the damn cartoon…it’s NOT really focused on the “soldier” per se, but Dr Rummy’s reaction. The “soldier” is almost featureless in the context of the drawing. It is NOT a “…callous depiction of those who have volunteered to defend this nation, and as a result, have suffered traumatic and life-altering wounds . . .” > [@](#): > > Dave Autry, deputy communications director for Disabled American Veterans, said he was “certainly not” offended by the cartoon. > > “It was graphic, no doubt about it,” he said. “But it drove home a point, that there are critically ill patients that certainly need to be attended to.” How soon until O’Reilly touts the “outrage” on The Factor? ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2006, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joint-chiefs-of-staff-get-over-your-damn-selves-cartoon/342778/2 "2006-02-03T02:51:02Z")
> [@beagledave](#): > > How soon until O’Reilly touts the “outrage” on The Factor? He already has. Catch his show tonight if you can to watch the fun/blowhardiness. ---
**Author:** ![Sublight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Sublight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sublight)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2006, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joint-chiefs-of-staff-get-over-your-damn-selves-cartoon/342778/3 "2006-02-03T02:52:38Z")
Just to clarify, the cartoonist was Tom Toles, not Ted Rall. ---
**Author:** ![Pullet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Pullet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pullet)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2006, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joint-chiefs-of-staff-get-over-your-damn-selves-cartoon/342778/4 "2006-02-03T02:58:55Z")
Could it be that they are trying to distract from the bite of the cartoon by attacking it from a completely oblique (and incorrect) angle? That’s the only reason I can see for even acknowledging the cartoon at all. ---
**Author:** ![beagledave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6de8d8/32.png) [@beagledave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beagledave)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2006, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joint-chiefs-of-staff-get-over-your-damn-selves-cartoon/342778/5 "2006-02-03T03:15:40Z")
> [@Sublight](#): > > Just to clarify, the cartoonist was Tom Toles, not Ted Rall. I said that in the OP. ---
**Author:** ![beagledave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6de8d8/32.png) [@beagledave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beagledave)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2006, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joint-chiefs-of-staff-get-over-your-damn-selves-cartoon/342778/6 "2006-02-03T03:17:18Z")
> [@HPL](#): > > He already has. Catch his show tonight if you can to watch the fun/blowhardiness. Ehh…that was more of a throwaway line from me…I tend not to watch TV blowhards from either political extreme. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2006, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joint-chiefs-of-staff-get-over-your-damn-selves-cartoon/342778/7 "2006-02-03T03:25:22Z")
> [@beagledave](#): > > Look at the damn cartoon…it’s NOT really focused on the “soldier” per se, but Dr Rummy’s reaction. The “soldier” is almost featureless in the context of the drawing. Actually, that’s the problem I have with it. The wounded servicemembers in this war are a pretty diverse bunch, coming from a bunch of different backgrounds, having different wartime experiences, and having vastly different opinions on this war. They are individuals, and Toles did not treat them as such in his piece. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2006, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joint-chiefs-of-staff-get-over-your-damn-selves-cartoon/342778/8 "2006-02-03T03:40:50Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > They are individuals, and Toles did not treat them as such in his piece. Yeah, but as I noted in the concurrent GD thread, that’s because the “wounded soldier” depicted in the cartoon **isn’t** actually a wounded soldier: rather, he’s just a symbol for the US Army as a whole. (Look at the chart at the foot of his bed that says “US Army” where the patient’s name would be.) As I said in the other thread, I thought the cartoon was pretty gross and tasteless in general. But I don’t see a problem with simply using the figure of a soldier to impersonally represent the entire Army. The cartoonist Herblock used to do that all the time, with a G.I. Joe-type figure standing for all the troops in Korea or Vietnam or somewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2006, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joint-chiefs-of-staff-get-over-your-damn-selves-cartoon/342778/9 "2006-02-03T03:42:27Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > Actually, that’s the problem I have with it. > > The wounded servicemembers in this war are a pretty diverse bunch, coming from a bunch of different backgrounds, having different wartime experiences, and having vastly different opinions on this war. > > They are individuals, and Toles did not treat them as such in his piece. How many wounded do we have in this war, now? Might be hard to fit all those individuals into a one-panel cartoon. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2006, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joint-chiefs-of-staff-get-over-your-damn-selves-cartoon/342778/10 "2006-02-03T04:00:44Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > Actually, that’s the problem I have with it. > > The wounded servicemembers in this war are a pretty diverse bunch, coming from a bunch of different backgrounds, having different wartime experiences, and having vastly different opinions on this war. You’ve been whooshed, bit time. That’s the whole point-the soldier is supposed to be faceless because he’s supposed to represent EVERY soldier out there. ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2006, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joint-chiefs-of-staff-get-over-your-damn-selves-cartoon/342778/11 "2006-02-03T04:06:25Z")
> [@beagledave](#): > > Ehh…that was more of a throwaway line from me…I tend not to watch TV blowhards from either political extreme. That’s okay. I think the only reason I watch his show is because I’m a masochist at heart and my blood pressure isn’t high enough between 5 and 6 pm. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2006, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joint-chiefs-of-staff-get-over-your-damn-selves-cartoon/342778/12 "2006-02-03T04:34:23Z")
> [@beagledave](#): > > Look at the damn cartoon…it’s NOT really focused on the “soldier” per se, but Dr Rummy’s reaction. The “soldier” is almost featureless in the context of the drawing. Which, at the risk of echoing Moto, is the whole problem AFAIC. There are a hundred different ways to take a shot at Rumsfeld (a perfectly fair target); the way he chose to do it was to use wounded vets as props. “Offensive,” no. In very poor taste, yes. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2006, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joint-chiefs-of-staff-get-over-your-damn-selves-cartoon/342778/13 "2006-02-03T05:02:15Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > You’ve been whooshed, bit time. > > That’s the whole point-the soldier is supposed to be faceless because he’s supposed to represent EVERY soldier out there. I’ve spent way too much time among actual servicemen and women to see them as faceless. Furthermore, I’m not a fan of using them as political props on either side. Sorry. I’m not going to join any big outcry to pull Toles off the opinion pages. But the cartoon was tasteless to me, and I won’t apologize for feeling such. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2006, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joint-chiefs-of-staff-get-over-your-damn-selves-cartoon/342778/14 "2006-02-03T05:25:48Z")
Oh for fuck’s sake. Moto, there is a centuries-old tradition in the United States of using generic symbols in political cartoons to represent a greater whole. No offense was meant to any wounded soldier in the use of a generic wounded soldier to represent the US armed forces. Get waaaaaay the fuck over yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2006, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joint-chiefs-of-staff-get-over-your-damn-selves-cartoon/342778/15 "2006-02-03T05:53:36Z")
Even if the cartoon was protesting the soldiers’ treatment, and pointing out that we owe them much better? ---
**Author:** ![JohnBckWLD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d6d6ee/32.png) [@JohnBckWLD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnBckWLD)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2006, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joint-chiefs-of-staff-get-over-your-damn-selves-cartoon/342778/16 "2006-02-03T06:22:51Z")
2006: The bizarro year of [cartoon furor](http://www.dallasvoice.com/artman/exec/view.cgi/4/333). ---
**Author:** ![Pullet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Pullet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pullet)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2006, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joint-chiefs-of-staff-get-over-your-damn-selves-cartoon/342778/17 "2006-02-03T06:36:56Z")
I weep for the humorless years our country faces. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2006, 8:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joint-chiefs-of-staff-get-over-your-damn-selves-cartoon/342778/18 "2006-02-03T08:19:02Z")
Wonderful, the JCS is making political points. I for one welcome our uniformed masters. ---
**Author:** ![betenoir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/258eb7/32.png) [@betenoir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoir)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2006, 9:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joint-chiefs-of-staff-get-over-your-damn-selves-cartoon/342778/19 "2006-02-03T09:00:09Z")
So…refering to the actual consequences of war is “in poor taste”? Sending people to get there arms and legs blown off is ok but suggesting that that is what might happen to them is…tacky? It’s ok if we don’t talk about it? Toles wanted to make a comment about the cavilere attitude Rumsfeild had to the war and how can he do that except to show the real consequences? Oh wait. I’m sorry. American soilders don’t actually get blown up or lose limbs in combat. To suggest that that they do is wrong. Very wrong. We are invincible. Our soilders are invincible. If you want me I’ll be at the Chestnut Tree Cafe. ---
**Author:** ![Sublight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Sublight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sublight)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2006, 10:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joint-chiefs-of-staff-get-over-your-damn-selves-cartoon/342778/20 "2006-02-03T10:00:03Z")
> [@beagledave](#): > > I said that in the OP. Actually, you said “Ted Toles”, after referring to “Ted Rail”. It wasn’t exactly clear who you meant. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joint-chiefs-of-staff-get-over-your-damn-selves-cartoon/342778.md?page=2)