# Joint Chiefs of Staff: Get over your damn selves. (Cartoon) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 3, 2006, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joint-chiefs-of-staff-get-over-your-damn-selves-cartoon/342778 "2006-02-03T02:44:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2006, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joint-chiefs-of-staff-get-over-your-damn-selves-cartoon/342778/101 "2006-02-10T00:08:33Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > Because, then, anyone who isn’t at the top of the game is irrelevent. > > -Joe No, not irrelevant. Just not as good. Um, you guys realize, I didn’t invent comparisons, right? It’s a somewhat common form of evaluating merit. I am honestly befuddled by the continued focus on my comments on Toles’s meager cartooning skills. You like his style? Great! That’s why there’s chocolate and vanilla. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2006, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joint-chiefs-of-staff-get-over-your-damn-selves-cartoon/342778/102 "2006-02-10T00:18:42Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > Decreased pension reserves can also be a result of lower recruitment. The fact that one thing follows the other logically doesn’t mean it was relevant to the particular point under discussion. Sorry, I don’t understand what point you’re trying to make here. > [@](#): > > This is silly. One can comment on the inappropriateness of the use of a particular image completely divorced from the political message. It seems to me the JCoS went to great lengths to do just that. Something doesn’t become exempt from comment simply because “it’s political.” No, you absolutely can not, because what examples of public discourse the JCs choose to comment on is, itself, going to be perceived as political. Proponents of the current war have often made reference to wounded vets to support their cause. Have the JCs commented on that? Why not? Could be that it never occured to them, could be that they never saw it… could be that they approve of that message. In a position that requires a level of professional apoliticalness, it is as important to avoid the _appearance_ of political partisanship as it is to avoid the partisanship itself. Even granting wholly pure motives to the JCs (which I’m not hugely inclined to do), commenting at all was a mistake on their part. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2006, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joint-chiefs-of-staff-get-over-your-damn-selves-cartoon/342778/103 "2006-02-10T00:20:51Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > No, not irrelevant. Just not as good. Um, you guys realize, I didn’t invent comparisons, right? It’s a somewhat common form of evaluating merit. I am honestly befuddled by the continued focus on my comments on Toles’s meager cartooning skills. You like his style? Great! That’s why there’s chocolate and vanilla. Because it appeared that you were arguing that only people of a particular level of skill in their field should address certain topics. Bill Mauldin might have been able to make a better comic on the topic, but that doesn’t mean that anyone who isn’t Bill Mauldin should avoid it. I get that you weren’t trying to say that now, but it wasn’t at all clear from your earlier posts. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2006, 10:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joint-chiefs-of-staff-get-over-your-damn-selves-cartoon/342778/104 "2006-02-10T10:08:41Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Sorry, I don’t understand what point you’re trying to make here. Wounded soldiers are a predictable (and tragic) outcome of war. Even if one accepts your point that extended tours of duty lead to more injuries overall, that doesn’t mean that this was Toles’s point. Again, I contend that a simple read of the cartoon, and an understanding of what Rummy’s quote was in response to, render the soldier depicted just a prop to represent a depleted army, not an effect of the depleted army. Your read seems to me a non sequitur. > [@](#): > > No, you absolutely can not, because what examples of public discourse the JCs choose to comment on is, itself, going to be perceived as political. Proponents of the current war have often made reference to wounded vets to support their cause. Have the JCs commented on that? Why not? Could be that it never occured to them, could be that they never saw it… could be that they approve of that message. Could be that they didn’t comment because the person referring to the wounded didn’t do so to make an ancillary point, exploiting the image of wounded soldiers to craft a “gotcha.” The JCoS made clear in the letter that it was not their intention to limit the expression of opposition to the war. An explicit statement seems to me to settle the question of their motive. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2006, 10:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joint-chiefs-of-staff-get-over-your-damn-selves-cartoon/342778/105 "2006-02-10T10:17:56Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Because it appeared that you were arguing that only people of a particular level of skill in their field should address certain topics. Bill Mauldin might have been able to make a better comic on the topic, but that doesn’t mean that anyone who isn’t Bill Mauldin should avoid it. I get that you weren’t trying to say that now, but it wasn’t at all clear from your earlier posts. I dunno. This seem pretty clear to me: > [@](#): > > By the way (minor point), part of the problem is Toles’ style (or lack thereof). There are editorial cartoonists who could have drawn that soldier so artfully, with such obvious pathos and sympathy, that I believe the response could well have been different. If you don’t want a figure to be mistakenly interpreted as an objective of derision or indifference, try not to depict him as a demented Weeble. Don’t see where I say Toles should avoid making cartoons criticizing the war (or any other topic). I do see where I say he isn’t very good. I honestly don’t see how anyone can interpret this as anything other than my saying Toles is a crappy artist. Again, anyone who feels differently is entitled to his opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Cerri](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3bc359/32.png) [@Cerri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cerri)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2006, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joint-chiefs-of-staff-get-over-your-damn-selves-cartoon/342778/106 "2006-02-10T11:49:43Z")
Ok, so, just to recap, if you’re the JCS, showing veterans of the Iraq war as amputees in political cartoons = bad, offensive, and you don’t care about the troops if you think different [Using veterans of the Vietnam War who are triple amputees as a result of war in a political ad wherein their images are stood next to images of Bin Laden and Hussein to vilify them for their criticism of the current war = okey dokey](http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A1464-2003Jul2) Cause, I got to say, although there was somewhat of a stink about that ad, I don’t recall the JCS writing a protest letter about it, off the top of my head. Just sayin. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2006, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joint-chiefs-of-staff-get-over-your-damn-selves-cartoon/342778/107 "2006-02-10T11:54:41Z")
> [@Cerri](#): > > Ok, so, just to recap, if you’re the JCS, showing veterans of the Iraq war as amputees in political cartoons = bad, offensive, and you don’t care about the troops if you think different Yeah, that’s a fair representation of the discussion. :rolleyes: > [@](#): > > [Using veterans of the Vietnam War who are triple amputees as a result of war in a political ad wherein their images are stood next to images of Bin Laden and Hussein to vilify them for their criticism of the current war = okey dokey](http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A1464-2003Jul2) > Cause, I got to say, although there was somewhat of a stink about that ad, I don’t recall the JCS writing a protest letter about it, off the top of my head. > > Just sayin. Maybe because the amputee was the candidate in that race, and whether or not the charge was a cheap shot, no one was gratuitously using his infirmity to make a political point? Just sayin. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2006, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joint-chiefs-of-staff-get-over-your-damn-selves-cartoon/342778/108 "2006-02-10T16:26:32Z")
I made a few comments earlier in this thread (and also in the other cartoon thread). I see everyone is still jerking off in this one. Look people, it’s just a fucking cartoon. It isn’t a real person, it’s a representation of the entire fucking Army. It doesn’t belittle anyone. It says what it says. Anyone who is so fucking upset over this goddamm cartoon, while they FOR YEARS have glady ignored or spun the problems that spawned it is a blind partisan fucknut. There. I said it. Carry on. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2006, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joint-chiefs-of-staff-get-over-your-damn-selves-cartoon/342778/109 "2006-02-10T20:13:52Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > I made a few comments earlier in this thread (and also in the other cartoon thread). I see everyone is still jerking off in this one. While you were off curing cancer, no doubt. > [@](#): > > Look people, it’s just a fucking cartoon. It isn’t a real person, it’s a representation of the entire fucking Army. It doesn’t belittle anyone. It says what it says. Anyone who is so fucking upset over this goddamm cartoon, while they FOR YEARS have glady ignored or spun the problems that spawned it is a blind partisan fucknut. There. I said it. Carry on. And anybody who is upset over this cartoon while also skewering puppies on rusty shish kabobs is a sadist prick. Of course, in both instances, the two needn’t go together, as much as your ongoing affection for this straw man indicates you wish it were otherwise. There. I said it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joint-chiefs-of-staff-get-over-your-damn-selves-cartoon/342778.md?page=5)