# Joint Strike fighters still in limbo - Aussies threaten to withdraw - China hones stealth aircraft **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 27, 2011, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joint-strike-fighters-still-in-limbo-aussies-threaten-to-withdraw-china-hones-stealth-aircraft/590487 "2011-07-27T14:56:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2011, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joint-strike-fighters-still-in-limbo-aussies-threaten-to-withdraw-china-hones-stealth-aircraft/590487/101 "2011-07-30T18:46:13Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > Since we’ve apparently left reality, I’m comfortable thinking that Japan’s Unicorn Cavalry will handily stop such an attack attempt. Let’s be fair now. The OP left reality a long time ago. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2011, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joint-strike-fighters-still-in-limbo-aussies-threaten-to-withdraw-china-hones-stealth-aircraft/590487/102 "2011-07-30T20:03:11Z")
> [@SecretaryofEvil](#): > > Sort of has a “Sablicious is ignorant and unintelligent,” flavor to it. Don’t you think? > [@Dissonance](#): > > Let’s be fair now. The OP left reality a long time ago. Attack the post, not the poster. These comments are not appropriate for Great Debates. ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2011, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joint-strike-fighters-still-in-limbo-aussies-threaten-to-withdraw-china-hones-stealth-aircraft/590487/103 "2011-07-30T22:53:10Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Attack the post, not the poster. These comments are not appropriate for Great Debates. My apologies. To rephrase, we left reality in the first post with China’s non-existent shiny new carrier. ---
**Author:** ![SecretaryofEvil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@SecretaryofEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecretaryofEvil)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2011, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joint-strike-fighters-still-in-limbo-aussies-threaten-to-withdraw-china-hones-stealth-aircraft/590487/104 "2011-07-31T00:07:24Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Attack the post, not the poster. These comments are not appropriate for Great Debates. You’re quite right. I’ll keep it to his Pit thread from now on. [Sablicious is quite the scaredy cat - The BBQ Pit - Straight Dope Message Board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=614492) ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2011, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joint-strike-fighters-still-in-limbo-aussies-threaten-to-withdraw-china-hones-stealth-aircraft/590487/105 "2011-08-04T15:57:46Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > Considering that Australia’s biggest “threat” is Indonesia and China, both of which are quite a bit further than 680 miles away… Well, let’s just hope those Tasmanian devils don’t run amok. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2011, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joint-strike-fighters-still-in-limbo-aussies-threaten-to-withdraw-china-hones-stealth-aircraft/590487/106 "2011-08-04T18:21:44Z")
> [@Dissonance](#): > > My apologies. To rephrase, we left reality in the first post with China’s non-existent shiny new carrier. When China launches the Varyag, it will be new in the sense that’s it China’s new carrier. It won’t be “new” by modern standards but new to China. The way I see China’s thinking is that the US simply won’t be able to afford to keep their 11 carrier fleets afloat in another 10-20 years time. At that time, China needs to have a bluewater fleet to protect their interests in the Asia-Pacific. They are concerned about maintaining a balance of power against India and Russia (pacific fleet based in Vladivostok), not the US. ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2011, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joint-strike-fighters-still-in-limbo-aussies-threaten-to-withdraw-china-hones-stealth-aircraft/590487/107 "2011-08-04T20:34:24Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > **When** China launches the Varyag, it will be new in the sense that’s it China’s new carrier. It won’t be “new” by modern standards but new to China. Operative word bolded. It’ll also take more than just launching it to put it in commission. As I have said before, I can foresee a lot of problems coming up during sea trials of a hull that began construction in 1985. Just to note, the estimates that sea trials could begin in late 2011 is just the [latest estimate.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_aircraft_carrier_Varyag) > [@](#): > > Jane’s Navy International noted in October 2007 that “refurbishment work and fitting out is continuing and the vessel is expected to begin initial sea trials in 2008”.[14] At the end of 2008, the Asahi Shimbun reported that the carrier was “nearing completion”.[1] On April 27, 2009 Varyag was reported to have been moved into another dry dock, “apparently to install engines and other heavy equipment”.[15] A new radar mast has been installed on Varyag’s superstructure as of December 15, 2009.[16] > > According to Vice Admiral David J. Dorsett of the U.S. Navy, sea trials of the refitted Varyag may start in late 2011.[20] An RSIS analyst has noted that China still has a long way to go to make it operational, but is determined to do so.[21] On June 8, 2011, the Chief of the General Staff of the People’s Liberation Army, Gen. Chen Bingde confirmed that Beijing is building an aircraft carrier, marking the first acknowledgement of the ship’s existence from China’s armed forces. He said that the refurbished Soviet carrier “is being built, but has not been completed”. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 9:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joint-strike-fighters-still-in-limbo-aussies-threaten-to-withdraw-china-hones-stealth-aircraft/590487/108 "2011-08-05T09:44:02Z")
> [@Dissonance](#): > > Operative word bolded. It’ll also take more than just launching it to put it in commission. As I have said before, I can foresee a lot of problems coming up during sea trials So it takes them another five or six years to get it operational and maybe 10 years to figure out flight operations. China is nothing if not patient. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joint-strike-fighters-still-in-limbo-aussies-threaten-to-withdraw-china-hones-stealth-aircraft/590487/109 "2011-08-05T11:19:22Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > So it takes them another five or six years to get it operational and maybe 10 years to figure out flight operations. China is nothing if not patient. And when it finishes being patient it’ll have one whole aircraft carrier. Hardly takes them into ‘Kneel before Zog’ territory, does it. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joint-strike-fighters-still-in-limbo-aussies-threaten-to-withdraw-china-hones-stealth-aircraft/590487/110 "2011-08-05T12:12:01Z")
> [@tagos](#): > > And when it finishes being patient it’ll have one whole aircraft carrier. Which is the same number that India and Russia has. How many times do people have to friggin tell you that it’s not about trying to match the US. Not every military strategic decision in the world is based on trying to compete with or overtake the US. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joint-strike-fighters-still-in-limbo-aussies-threaten-to-withdraw-china-hones-stealth-aircraft/590487/111 "2011-08-05T20:01:45Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > Which is the same number that India and Russia has. How many times do people have to friggin tell you that it’s not about trying to match the US. Not every military strategic decision in the world is based on trying to compete with or overtake the US. To be fair, that is the OP’s seemingly rather alarmed premise. Quoting: > [@Sablicious](#): > > So, what say you – is the US’ tomfoolery regards its own near-destitute domestic status serving as a convenient distraction for ‘others’ to gain exponential ground on them militarily and strategically, in addition to economically? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joint-strike-fighters-still-in-limbo-aussies-threaten-to-withdraw-china-hones-stealth-aircraft/590487.md?page=5)