# Joke about men and women - something about men looking foolish and women wanting to not die
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joke-about-men-and-women-something-about-men-looking-foolish-and-women-wanting-to-not-die/690306
**Category:** Cafe Society
**Created:** [June 8, 2014, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joke-about-men-and-women-something-about-men-looking-foolish-and-women-wanting-to-not-die/690306 "2014-06-08T00:44:30Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@DataX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DataX)
#### Post date: [June 8, 2014, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joke-about-men-and-women-something-about-men-looking-foolish-and-women-wanting-to-not-die/690306/1 "2014-06-08T00:44:30Z")
I remember hearing a joke - I think it was sort of a throw away I heard during a stand up act.
It was something like this:
> [@](#):
>
> You want to know the real difference between the fears men and women have going on a date for the first time?
>
> Men are scared to death of looking like a fool, while women are just happy if they don’t get killed.
I’m not that sure about any of it - except the woman part had something to do with her fearing physical harm - it could have been: kidnapped, raped, cut up into little pieces etc.
The guy part was like foolish,idiot, or something.
I’m fairly sure it was a stand up comic
I’m fairly sure that comic was male
I think it may have involved online dating
I think it was in the last five years
I wanna say it was kinda along the lines of Louie CK, Bill Burr, Patton Oswalt - but I cant seem to find it.
It is possible I heard it during live standup and it doesn’t exist on the web somewhere, but I have a feeling I saw it while watching TV.
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### Author:  [@watergallop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watergallop)
#### Post date: [June 8, 2014, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joke-about-men-and-women-something-about-men-looking-foolish-and-women-wanting-to-not-die/690306/2 "2014-06-08T01:01:20Z")
This is a Margaret Atwood quote.
“Men are afraid women will laugh at them. Women are afraid men will kill them.”
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### Author:  [@EPoch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EPoch)
#### Post date: [June 8, 2014, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joke-about-men-and-women-something-about-men-looking-foolish-and-women-wanting-to-not-die/690306/3 "2014-06-08T01:10:10Z")
> [@DataX](#):
>
> I remember hearing a joke - I think it was sort of a throw away I heard during a stand up act.
>
> It was something like this:
>
> I’m not that sure about any of it - except the woman part had something to do with her fearing physical harm - it could have been: kidnapped, raped, cut up into little pieces etc.
>
> The guy part was like foolish,idiot, or something.
>
> It is possible I heard it during live standup and it doesn’t exist on the web somewhere, but I have a feeling I saw it while watching TV.
The whole male part thing about Men looking like a fool, probably has to do with the whole male pride thing and being emasculated.
I searched up the whole thing but couldn’t find it, sorry. ☹
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### Author:  [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)
#### Post date: [June 8, 2014, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joke-about-men-and-women-something-about-men-looking-foolish-and-women-wanting-to-not-die/690306/4 "2014-06-08T01:18:37Z")
Didn’t Louis CK do something along those lines recently?
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### Author:  [@abderian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/abderian)
#### Post date: [June 8, 2014, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joke-about-men-and-women-something-about-men-looking-foolish-and-women-wanting-to-not-die/690306/5 "2014-06-08T01:36:46Z")
It’s not a joke, but rather a truth. Gavin De Becker wrote it in “The Gift of Fear” (Bloomsbury, 2000):
“At core, men are afraid women will laugh at them, while at core, women are afraid men will kill them."
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### Author:  [@DataX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DataX)
#### Post date: [June 8, 2014, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joke-about-men-and-women-something-about-men-looking-foolish-and-women-wanting-to-not-die/690306/6 "2014-06-08T01:58:00Z")
Thanks for the quick responses - I had thought I had heard it from Louie CK, but he or whoever may have been prefacing it by “It’s like that old saying” or something. And I was in no way sure it was him.
I definitely didn’t hear it from Margaret Atwood - unless she has been doing standup.
I found a reference using the two suggestions given as early as 1980 giving credit to Atwood
[link](http://books.google.com/books?id=szLkAAAAMAAJ&q=%22women+will+laugh+at+them%22&dq=%22women+will+laugh+at+them%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=h8GTU7LsDYyMyATIkoHwCw&ved=0CD8Q6AEwBTgU)
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### Author:  [@chinchalinchin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chinchalinchin)
#### Post date: [June 8, 2014, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joke-about-men-and-women-something-about-men-looking-foolish-and-women-wanting-to-not-die/690306/7 "2014-06-08T11:47:28Z")
Louie did have a bit like this. It wasn’t something that could be summed up a sentence. His bit was basically something like, "imagune if you were a dude and you had to go out with a gigantic bear. That’s what women feel like.’ It was much better worded, obviously. And funnier. It was off one of his newer releases. Pretty sure it wasn’t Oh My God. And it wasnt’t as far back as Chewed Up or Hilarious. So it must have been either Beacon Theater od the Carnegie Hall performance unless i’m forgetting one in between the ones I mentioned.
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### Author:  [@Shoeless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shoeless)
#### Post date: [June 8, 2014, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joke-about-men-and-women-something-about-men-looking-foolish-and-women-wanting-to-not-die/690306/8 "2014-06-08T14:59:40Z")
Interesting coincidence… after reading this thread earlier this morning I later ran across this comic:
> **[Cartoon: Your worst fear](https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2014/05/28/1302462/-Cartoon-Your-worst-fear)**
>
> Daily Kos is a progressive news site that fights for democracy by giving our audience information and resources to win elections and impact government. Our coverage is assiduously factual, ethical, and unapologetically liberal. We amplify what we...
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### Author:  [@Toucanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toucanna)
#### Post date: [June 8, 2014, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joke-about-men-and-women-something-about-men-looking-foolish-and-women-wanting-to-not-die/690306/9 "2014-06-08T23:34:03Z")
[QUOTE=abderian]
It’s not a joke, but rather a truth. Gavin De Becker wrote it in “The Gift of Fear” (Bloomsbury, 2000):
[/QUOTE]
That book should be required reading for every college student. I give copies of _The Gift of Fear_ to every woman I know. That said, the statement didn’t originate with de Becker. My mom has used that statement (seriously, not jokingly) for years and she’s never read the book.
I just asked her where/when she heard it, and she said she thinks she read it somewhere, “many years ago”. FWIW…
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### Author:  [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)
#### Post date: [June 9, 2014, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joke-about-men-and-women-something-about-men-looking-foolish-and-women-wanting-to-not-die/690306/10 "2014-06-09T00:24:45Z")
It’s a sexist insult, not a joke. It’s about calling men monsters.
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### Author:  [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)
#### Post date: [June 9, 2014, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joke-about-men-and-women-something-about-men-looking-foolish-and-women-wanting-to-not-die/690306/11 "2014-06-09T00:39:38Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#):
>
> It’s a sexist insult, not a joke. It’s about calling men monsters.
No, it’s about revealing a common female fear that men are monsters. Completely different.
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### Author:  [@Namkcalb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Namkcalb)
#### Post date: [June 9, 2014, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joke-about-men-and-women-something-about-men-looking-foolish-and-women-wanting-to-not-die/690306/12 "2014-06-09T00:43:59Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#):
>
> It’s a sexist insult, not a joke. It’s about calling men monsters.
I wouldn’t go that far. It is about risk perception; whilst in reality, men are significantly more likely to killed(by all sources), women are more likely to be afraid of being killed.
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### Author:  [@abderian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/abderian)
#### Post date: [June 10, 2014, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joke-about-men-and-women-something-about-men-looking-foolish-and-women-wanting-to-not-die/690306/13 "2014-06-10T00:37:29Z")
> [@Toucanna](#):
>
> That book should be required reading for every college student. I give copies of _The Gift of Fear_ to every woman I know. That said, the statement didn’t originate with de Becker. My mom has used that statement (seriously, not jokingly) for years and she’s never read the book.
>
> I just asked her where/when she heard it, and she said she thinks she read it somewhere, “many years ago”. FWIW…
Yes, it _is_ a good book. And you’re correct. I took another look – the full quote is:
“_I don’t remember where I first heard this_ simple description of one dramatic contrast between the genders, but it is strikingly accurate: At core, men are afraid women will laugh at them, while at core, women are afraid men will kill them.” [emphasis added]
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### Author:  [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)
#### Post date: [June 10, 2014, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joke-about-men-and-women-something-about-men-looking-foolish-and-women-wanting-to-not-die/690306/14 "2014-06-10T00:53:55Z")
> [@Namkcalb](#):
>
> I wouldn’t go that far. It is about risk perception; whilst in reality, men are significantly more likely to killed(by all sources), women are more likely to be afraid of being killed.
Actually, [women are much more likely to be killed by men than men are to be killed by women](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1635092): the linked study found that in nearly a quarter of a million homicides (excluding killings during law enforcement activity), women comprised 23% of the victims but less than 15% of the perpetrators.
Moreover, women are much more likely to be killed by an intimate acquaintance than men are.
So yes, realistically speaking it does make sense that among heterosexual couples, women would be more afraid of being the victim of violence at the hands of someone they’re dating than men would be. Of course, even for women that risk is still quite low.
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### Author:  [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)
#### Post date: [June 10, 2014, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joke-about-men-and-women-something-about-men-looking-foolish-and-women-wanting-to-not-die/690306/15 "2014-06-10T01:00:29Z")
> [@Kimstu](#):
>
> So yes, realistically speaking it does make sense that among heterosexual couples, women would be more afraid of being the victim of violence at the hands of someone they’re dating than men would be.
That depends on how you read it.
> [@](#):
>
> In contrast to men, who killed nonintimate acquaintances, strangers, or victims of undetermined relationship in 80% of cases, women killed their spouse, an intimate acquaintance, or a family member in 60% of cases.
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### Author:  [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)
#### Post date: [June 10, 2014, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joke-about-men-and-women-something-about-men-looking-foolish-and-women-wanting-to-not-die/690306/16 "2014-06-10T01:21:11Z")
So that commercial with Michael Jordan a few years ago didn’t have it quite right. On their lunch breaks, women don’t play “boxers or briefs.” It’s “rapist and murderer or simply rapist.” 🙂
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### Author:  [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)
#### Post date: [June 10, 2014, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joke-about-men-and-women-something-about-men-looking-foolish-and-women-wanting-to-not-die/690306/17 "2014-06-10T01:39:50Z")
> [@Kimstu](#):
>
> Actually, [women are much more likely to be killed by men than men are to be killed by women](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1635092): the linked study found that in nearly a quarter of a million homicides (excluding killings during law enforcement activity), women comprised 23% of the victims but less than 15% of the perpetrators.
> .
Right, but men are more likely to be killed than women overall.
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### Author:  [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)
#### Post date: [June 10, 2014, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joke-about-men-and-women-something-about-men-looking-foolish-and-women-wanting-to-not-die/690306/18 "2014-06-10T03:29:52Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#):
>
> That depends on how you read it.
No, the two statements don’t contradict each other. They don’t even lead to contradictory interpretations.
Women are statistically much less likely to commit murder than men are. Even the fact that murders committed by women are much more likely to target intimates than strangers doesn’t cancel out that men are statistically much more likely to commit murders of all kinds.
That’s why a woman’s risk of being killed by a spouse/intimate acquaintance is still significantly higher than a man’s, even though 60% of female-committed murders target intimates while 80% of male-committed murders target strangers.
And of course, if we’re talking about rape and other kinds of assault as well as murder, the risk to women from male violence is even more disproportionately high compared to the risk to men from female violence.
**None of this is intended to accuse men in general of typically being violent.** Even minor acts of violence, much less rape and murder, are something that the majority of men would never commit.
But it does help explain why women are much more fearful of physical violence from men than vice versa.
> [@Captain Amazing](#):
>
> Right, but men are more likely to be killed than women overall.
True, but this thread is discussing the disparity of fears that men and women tend to have _about dating each other_.
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### Author:  [@gallows\_fodder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gallows_fodder)
#### Post date: [June 10, 2014, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joke-about-men-and-women-something-about-men-looking-foolish-and-women-wanting-to-not-die/690306/19 "2014-06-10T13:42:47Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#):
>
> Right, but men are more likely to be killed than women overall.
By other men. That’s not germane to the thread topic.
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### Author:  [@BlackKnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlackKnight)
#### Post date: [June 10, 2014, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joke-about-men-and-women-something-about-men-looking-foolish-and-women-wanting-to-not-die/690306/20 "2014-06-10T13:43:28Z")
> [@Kimstu](#):
>
> So yes, realistically speaking it does make sense that among heterosexual couples, women would be more afraid of being the victim of violence at the hands of someone they’re dating than men would be.
This doesn’t necessarily follow from your cite. It’s possible to be a victim of violence without being a victim of _murder_.
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