# jolly roger and the pirates

**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jolly-roger-and-the-pirates/160929
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [March 12, 2003, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jolly-roger-and-the-pirates/160929 "2003-03-12T20:50:16Z")
**Posts on this page:** 5
**Page:** 1

<div class="post-metadata">

### Author: ![flano1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f14d63/32.png) [@flano1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flano1)
#### Post date: [March 12, 2003, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jolly-roger-and-the-pirates/160929/1 "2003-03-12T20:50:16Z")

</div>

There is a revisionist history of Captain Kidd newly out suggesting that he was harshly treated. By the by the book mentions that pirates sailed under false colors, not the jolly roger.

When did, then, the JR become our standardised symbol for piracy?

And when did the skull and crossbone symbol become the icon for poison, danger etc?

Is it a chicken and egg thing ( to mix a metaphor or two )?

---

<div class="post-metadata">

### Author: ![ChalkPit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a88e4f/32.png) [@ChalkPit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChalkPit)
#### Post date: [March 12, 2003, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jolly-roger-and-the-pirates/160929/2 "2003-03-12T21:07:16Z")

</div>

Lots of sites on this topic.

Here’s one: [Pirate Flags](http://tinpan.fortunecity.com/lennon/897/flags.html)

---

<div class="post-metadata">

### Author: ![flano1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f14d63/32.png) [@flano1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flano1)
#### Post date: [March 12, 2003, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jolly-roger-and-the-pirates/160929/3 "2003-03-12T21:13:56Z")

</div>

thanx.

nice site.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

### Author: ![jimmmy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/73ab20/32.png) [@jimmmy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimmmy)
#### Post date: [March 12, 2003, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jolly-roger-and-the-pirates/160929/4 "2003-03-12T21:47:49Z")

</div>

I like this one too  
[http://www.westcoastmutineers.com/flags.htm](http://www.westcoastmutineers.com/flags.htm)

---

<div class="post-metadata">

### Author: ![Number](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/number/32/242_2.png) [@Number](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Number)
#### Post date: [March 12, 2003, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jolly-roger-and-the-pirates/160929/5 "2003-03-12T23:53:35Z")

</div>

> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by flano1 \*  
> **When did, then, the JR become our standardised symbol for piracy?**

[Cecil’s column](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a1_292.html) says it began to appear around 1700.