# Jon Benet Ramsey murder **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 2, 2006, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jon-benet-ramsey-murder/355071 "2006-05-02T06:33:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Buck\_Rogers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/958977/32.png) [@Buck\_Rogers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Rogers)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2006, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jon-benet-ramsey-murder/355071/1 "2006-05-02T06:33:02Z")
Innocent Jon Benet Ramsey would have been 16 years old this August 2006. DNA has been out for 15 years now. You would think this day in age they could catch the murderer(s). Obviously the Denver police does not watch CSI. I bet you guys came up with a good assumption, who was it? ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2006, 7:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jon-benet-ramsey-murder/355071/2 "2006-05-02T07:45:58Z")
According to Wikipedia, [Forensic DNA analysis](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon_Benet_Ramsey#Recent_developments) was done in 2003 from a sample on JonBenet’s underwear. They have not found a suspect who matches the sample. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2006, 8:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jon-benet-ramsey-murder/355071/3 "2006-05-02T08:41:06Z")
> [@Buck Rogers](#): > > Innocent Jon Benet Ramsey would have been 16 years old this August 2006. DNA has been out for 15 years now. You would think this day in age they could catch the murderer(s). Obviously the Denver police does not watch CSI. > > I bet you guys came up with a good assumption, who was it? I’m not entirely certain but I think it was a guy called Eddie. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2006, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jon-benet-ramsey-murder/355071/4 "2006-05-02T13:33:38Z")
This case has been horribly botched. By everybody. Amateur sleuths & investigative reporters have further muddied the waters, with wild guesses & half-truths. As have the books, written by self-serving ex-public officials & private investigators who bungled the job in the first place. There will be no results. This child has been murdered, & nobody will ever pay for it. Unless the killer confesses. ---
**Author:** ![spingears](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@spingears](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spingears)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2006, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jon-benet-ramsey-murder/355071/5 "2006-05-02T15:36:12Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > According to Wikipedia, [Forensic DNA analysis](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon_Benet_Ramsey#Recent_developments) was done in 2003 from a sample on JonBenet’s underwear. They have not found a suspect who matches the sample. They obviously not looked at ALL potential suspects. They may not know of the alleged ‘dirty little secret’ of the pageants. ---
**Author:** ![Rico](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rico/32/3582_2.png) [@Rico](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rico)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2006, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jon-benet-ramsey-murder/355071/6 "2006-05-02T15:44:02Z")
\ I’m torn. Asking for opinion…debating who did it…asking for opinion… OK, off to _Great Debates_. \ ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2006, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jon-benet-ramsey-murder/355071/7 "2006-05-02T15:54:18Z")
> [@spingears](#): > > They obviously not looked at ALL potential suspects. They may not know of the alleged ‘dirty little secret’ of the pageants. Forgive my ignorance, but what are you referring to exactly. Of course, I’m aware of the obvious (and repellant) pedophillic overtones inherent in the presentations, but is there something more insidious involved with these pageants that I’m unaware of? ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2006, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jon-benet-ramsey-murder/355071/8 "2006-05-02T16:01:18Z")
If they have DNA samples that match a family member, what does that mean? Unless it’s from semen it is proof of nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2006, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jon-benet-ramsey-murder/355071/9 "2006-05-02T16:21:38Z")
It was Ms. Scarlett in the basement with the noose. Marc ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2006, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jon-benet-ramsey-murder/355071/10 "2006-05-02T16:50:28Z")
> [@](#): > > Innocent Jon Benet Ramsey would have been 16 years old this August 2006. I do not clearly comprehend the use of the word “innocent” in this sentence. The victims of criminals are seldom assessed for guilt or innocence one way or the other, not generally being suspected of any crime. Disgusting exceptions exist in places they shouldn’t (e.g., rape victims being viewed as potentially guilty of having precipitated their own rape and, in reaction to that possibility, described as “innocent” to fend it off). Representing a different possibility, there is some kind of residual child-fetish in our culture (perhaps carried over from Rousseau? perhaps from some flavor of Christianity?) that considers children to be “innocent” of some horrid taint that infects people more and more as they age, thereby making adult victims of misadventures in some fashion not so “innocent”. I find this attitude towards children to be kind of creepy, and the attendant fascination with “innocence” in this sense to be disturbingly lascivious. Meanwhile, if Jon Benet Ramsey is not being positioned as somehow more “innocent” than any other victim of violent crime, why bring it up? ---
**Author:** ![R.P.McMurphy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7993a0/32.png) [@R.P.McMurphy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/R.P.McMurphy)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2006, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jon-benet-ramsey-murder/355071/11 "2006-05-02T17:04:27Z")
A Colorado lawyer told me that the place to start looking for the killer(s) is by examining the political connections between the lawyers the Ramsey’s hired and the District Attorney’s office. Maybe “intentionally botched” is the first clue. ---
**Author:** ![A.R.Cane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee7513/32.png) [@A.R.Cane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A.R.Cane)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2006, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jon-benet-ramsey-murder/355071/12 "2006-05-02T17:13:04Z")
> [@AHunter3](#): > > I do not clearly comprehend the use of the word “innocent” in this sentence. The victims of criminals are seldom assessed for guilt or innocence one way or the other, not generally being suspected of any crime. > > Disgusting exceptions exist in places they shouldn’t (e.g., rape victims being viewed as potentially guilty of having precipitated their own rape and, in reaction to that possibility, described as “innocent” to fend it off). > > Representing a different possibility, there is some kind of residual child-fetish in our culture (perhaps carried over from Rousseau? perhaps from some flavor of Christianity?) that considers children to be “innocent” of some horrid taint that infects people more and more as they age, thereby making adult victims of misadventures in some fashion not so “innocent”. I find this attitude towards children to be kind of creepy, and the attendant fascination with “innocence” in this sense to be disturbingly lascivious. > > Meanwhile, if Jon Benet Ramsey is not being positioned as somehow more “innocent” than any other victim of violent crime, why bring it up? I find your nit pick over the use of the term “innocent” to be irrelevant and a bit bizarre. Children are often referred to as “innocent” and I take it to mean that they are unworldly, not aware of the dangers and the darker, more sinister, thoughts and activities that humans are capable of. I see nothing lascivious about it. Just from memory, I believe that when they finally got around to checking DNA, they determined that a semen sample did not match any known suspect. I could be mistaken, but that’s how I recall it. ---
**Author:** ![Wee\_Bairn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/90db22/32.png) [@Wee\_Bairn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wee_Bairn)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2006, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jon-benet-ramsey-murder/355071/13 "2006-05-02T17:31:19Z")
**AHunter3** I thought your post was brilliant, and I agree totally. To me the media uses key words like “innocent” to make a crime worse, as if they really need to make child murder seem “more” tragic. Like when they show a murdered child’s photo on the news, and the voiceover intones “little Jeffy was going to be an astronaut, he would have been 2 next Saturday, but there will be no more birthdays for him, etc. etc.”. I HATE the way the media likes to put their little dramtic spin on things. It doesn’t matter if a murdered child had no ambitions and would have become a crackhead, it is bad enough without adding the melodrama, and reeks of exploitation as well. Report the news, don’t subject us to the pathos filled ramblings of a local newscaster who thinks reports like these are going to get him a job at a big city affiliate. ---
**Author:** ![Wee\_Bairn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/90db22/32.png) [@Wee\_Bairn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wee_Bairn)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2006, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jon-benet-ramsey-murder/355071/14 "2006-05-02T17:39:01Z")
Forgot to add, stating this six year old was innocent implies there are evil six year olds running around- “Jonbenet was an innocent child, unlike that little six year old whore who lived next door with her reprobate twin brother”- silly, no? A minor point, sure, but one I have noticed and hated for years, and it took **AHunter3** to explain to me what exactly I did not like about it. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2006, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jon-benet-ramsey-murder/355071/15 "2006-05-02T17:48:31Z")
I remember that the parents’ behavior after the incident was odd. You’d expect that the parents would be fully cooperative with the police in an attempt to find the suspect. But they clammed up and hid behind a lawyer almost immediately. And the whole thing where the body was not found in the first search of the house. ---
**Author:** ![DragonAsh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@DragonAsh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DragonAsh)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2006, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jon-benet-ramsey-murder/355071/16 "2006-05-02T18:16:52Z")
> [@Dewey Finn](#): > > I remember that the parents’ behavior after the incident was odd. You’d expect that the parents would be fully cooperative with the police in an attempt to find the suspect. But they clammed up and hid behind a lawyer almost immediately. And the whole thing where the body was not found in the first search of the house. When you have as much money as the Ramsey’s have, your first inclination at the sign of _any_ trouble, real or not, is to get a lawyer. Doesn’t mean the love their children any less. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2006, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jon-benet-ramsey-murder/355071/17 "2006-05-02T18:28:59Z")
> [@Wee Bairn](#): > > Forgot to add, stating this six year old was innocent implies there are evil six year olds running around [There aren’t?](http://www.courttv.com/news/2003/1110/grandfather_ap.html) ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2006, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jon-benet-ramsey-murder/355071/18 "2006-05-02T18:33:10Z")
> [@Lute Skywatcher](#): > > [There aren’t?](http://www.courttv.com/news/2003/1110/grandfather_ap.html) No, there aren’t. You’re story is about a kid with serious emotional and mental health disorders. Calling a six-year old “evil” is ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![A.R.Cane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee7513/32.png) [@A.R.Cane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A.R.Cane)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2006, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jon-benet-ramsey-murder/355071/19 "2006-05-02T18:39:21Z")
> [@Wee Bairn](#): > > **AHunter3** I thought your post was brilliant, and I agree totally. To me the media uses key words like “innocent” to make a crime worse, as if they really need to make child murder seem “more” tragic. Like when they show a murdered child’s photo on the news, and the voiceover intones “little Jeffy was going to be an astronaut, he would have been 2 next Saturday, but there will be no more birthdays for him, etc. etc.”. I HATE the way the media likes to put their little dramtic spin on things. It doesn’t matter if a murdered child had no ambitions and would have become a crackhead, it is bad enough without adding the melodrama, and reeks of exploitation as well. Report the news, don’t subject us to the pathos filled ramblings of a local newscaster who thinks reports like these are going to get him a job at a big city affiliate. If you want to criticize the media for sensationalizing I would likely agree w/ you, but 'AHunter3" appeared to be referring to the OP’s use of the word “innocent”. That’s what I was responding to. As I recall, the Ramsey’s did cooperate, in the beginning stages of the investigation, but when the focus seemed to be on them as the primary subjects, they obtained counsel and protected themselves. Considering the apparent ineptness of the authorities involved, I’d suggest they made the right choice. Maybe we’ll never know who killed the child, perhaps it was a family member, but there seemed to be a lot of unexplained evidence, not to mention plenty of mistakes made by the police. ---
**Author:** ![Wee\_Bairn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/90db22/32.png) [@Wee\_Bairn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wee_Bairn)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2006, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jon-benet-ramsey-murder/355071/20 "2006-05-02T19:22:42Z")
Regarding “evil children”, one need only look at the infamous Mary Bell case in the UK in the late 60’s. A nine year old girl kills a small boy, brags about it, has no remorse, etc. Branded “evil”, etc. by the press and just about the whole country, it turns out she was subjected to some very vile abuse, which no doubt caused her actions. I am sure there is something similar in the case of the six year old in Missouri, either that or some serious mental deficiencies. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jon-benet-ramsey-murder/355071.md?page=2)