# Jon Corzine is being framed by the media and Congress **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 8, 2011, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jon-corzine-is-being-framed-by-the-media-and-congress/605556 "2011-12-08T20:36:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2011, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jon-corzine-is-being-framed-by-the-media-and-congress/605556/61 "2011-12-13T17:47:03Z")
> [@CJJ](#): > > I naively assume that when I hire a broker or money manager, they work for me and trade according to my directives–or at least my expressed interests. Unless I explicity tell him/her to feel free and gamble with it, taking in down to the Great Casino and putting it all on red to cover his/her losses ain’t part of the deal, no matter how many bits of legalese they can waive in front of a judge. > > It’s legally-sanitized theft–plain and simple. We’re not talking about investors who are angry about bad choices or unexpected market reversals. The point is that investment _is_ gambling. Every investment comes with some level of risk. Your money is down at the Great Casino the second you hand it to a broker. ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2011, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jon-corzine-is-being-framed-by-the-media-and-congress/605556/62 "2011-12-13T18:04:04Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > The point is that investment _is_ gambling. Every investment comes with some level of risk. Your money is down at the Great Casino the second you hand it to a broker. You’re not seeing this correctly. The money MF Global took from their customers’ accounts wasn’t used to gamble on an investment that would have benefited the customers, it was used to maintain a prop trade, the profits of which would have gone solely to MF Global had it worked out. MF Global didn’t fritter away the money on behalf of their clients, they did it for themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2011, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jon-corzine-is-being-framed-by-the-media-and-congress/605556/63 "2011-12-13T19:15:59Z")
Right, but the post I was responding to was a general “OMG, they’re gambling with our money!”, not an “OMG, they’re gambling with our money and not giving us a cut.” > [@](#): > > Indeed frightening-we have the “Captains of Finance”-who are (essentially) nothing more than gamblers-with OUR money! ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2011, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jon-corzine-is-being-framed-by-the-media-and-congress/605556/64 "2011-12-13T19:21:07Z")
A comment which applies just as well to what MF Global specifically did. But I’d rather not spend any more time in my life parsing the deeper meanings of a **ralph124c** post ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2011, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jon-corzine-is-being-framed-by-the-media-and-congress/605556/65 "2011-12-13T19:42:24Z")
_hug_ ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2011, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jon-corzine-is-being-framed-by-the-media-and-congress/605556/66 "2011-12-14T02:40:58Z")
> [@China\_Guy](#): > > Corzine was also a big swinging dick trader… Lord, if just once, I could see one of those Fox bimbos look straight into the camera and report “Big swinging dicks were up today in early trading…”, my faith would know no further boundary. ---
**Author:** ![Buchanan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Buchanan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buchanan)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2011, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jon-corzine-is-being-framed-by-the-media-and-congress/605556/67 "2011-12-14T03:16:17Z")
According to Duffy over at CME, Corzine is a liar. Yes, CME is fighting for their own rep. But this is clearly not a frame-up. [http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20111213-715210.html](http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20111213-715210.html) ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2011, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jon-corzine-is-being-framed-by-the-media-and-congress/605556/68 "2011-12-14T23:50:27Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > From what I’ve read, it all happened rather quickly, in the last week or so. The CEO can put into place controls, but he can’t manage the funds on a day to day basis. Losing money on investments is different than tapping into funds that aren’t available for such transactions. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2011, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jon-corzine-is-being-framed-by-the-media-and-congress/605556/69 "2011-12-16T14:52:24Z")
> [@Mighty\_Mouse](#): > > This will keep happening unless when someone makes $2B by going rogue, they get strung up just the same. You are only rogue when you fail. Absolutely true. And this has a much broader application as well. A lot of corporations have all sorts of ethical standards in place that ostensibly should hold the company to the highest standards of behaviour. But as a practical matter, the quickest way to get to the top in the organization is to make piles of money for the company and no one looks at whether you’ve complied with these standards if you’re successful and don’t happen to get tripped up. It’s only if things go sour does the company whip out their standards manual and claim that you’re violated their long-standing policies etc. So as a practical matter, the standards are little better than CYA for the corporation, and the incentive for unethical behaviour is overwhelming. > [@Magiver](#): > > Losing money on investments is different than tapping into funds that aren’t available for such transactions. Understod. That’s what I was referring to. What I’m saying is that the CEO can’t be expected to sign off on every transaction, at an institution which routinely moves enormous sums of money around. In this light it’s not surprising at all if the CEO would not know what happened to a bunch of money in the prior week. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2011, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jon-corzine-is-being-framed-by-the-media-and-congress/605556/70 "2011-12-16T23:22:07Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Understod. That’s what I was referring to. > > What I’m saying is that the CEO can’t be expected to sign off on every transaction, at an institution which routinely moves enormous sums of money around. In this light it’s not surprising at all if the CEO would not know what happened to a bunch of money in the prior week. Well they can’t be expected to sign off on individual transactions made on the lowest level but they are expected to be aware of what is going on around them on a higher level. More to the point, they should have the resources (personal and corporate) to reconstruct what goes on around them in a timely manner. They should be able to call forth all transactions in data form and be able to organize the information for dissemination. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jon-corzine-is-being-framed-by-the-media-and-congress/605556.md?page=3)