# Jon Stewart and Charlton Heston on Ground Zero Mosque **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 20, 2010, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jon-stewart-and-charlton-heston-on-ground-zero-mosque/550885 "2010-08-20T16:44:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2010, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jon-stewart-and-charlton-heston-on-ground-zero-mosque/550885/81 "2010-08-21T00:05:05Z")
[quote=“Kobal2, post:72, topic:550885”] > [@MaxTheVool](#): > > It’s a stupid point - it’s a trait of the _act of conquest_. When you conquer some place that doesn’t have you culture in it and plan on living there from then on, you bring your culture with you. It’s not exactly rocket surgery. > Zee Germans put up signs in Gothic lettering all over occupied France, Europeans built churches in America, Crusaders built churches in Jerusalem, Romans built temples to Mars in Hispania, and Ug painted a rad auroch in Zog’s cave after bashing Zog in the head with a rock. > Saying that Muslims have the peculiarity of building mosques wherever they go (like the evil \*bastards \*they are) is asinine. Now Ug, he would have been a good mayor. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2010, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jon-stewart-and-charlton-heston-on-ground-zero-mosque/550885/82 "2010-08-21T00:30:54Z")
> [@Anduril](#): > > The anger is directed because of the insensitivity of that group. And people are saying that because it’s been repeated ad nausem by dishonest hacks. There is absolutely nothing insensitive about a community center being built 2 blocks from ground zero simply because they are Muslim. You can’t see it from ground zero. It’s bullshit manufactured anger. > [@](#): > > You’re all for appeasing the sensibilities of everyone in the world but when it comes to your own people, somehow that’s wrong? What the hell are you talking about? What appeasing have I done? I’m a patriot and I love my country. That’s why it saddens me to see people buy into the fear mongering and ignorence. We should aspire to be better than that. I don’t believe that sort of shit should be appeased. That’s not showing sensitivity. That’s caving to unreasoning mob mentality. > [@](#): > > \*An Christian extremist group just bombed a very old mosque in Baghdad, killing 3,000 people. Years later, Pastor X decides to build a cathedral just two blocks away from this place. His many sermons have been about spreading Christianity in the Middle East. Muslims expressed their anger. \* > > Do you really expect me to believe that people here will not excoriate Pastor X for his insensitivity? Really?!? We’ve killed way more than 3000 Muslims by now haven’t we? I mean way, way more. Innocent civilians. There are already many Christian churches in Iraq. Do you think those Muslims who blanket hate all Americans are justified? Does embracing lingering hatred and resentment and aiming it at groups who aren’t responsible advance our society and live up to our founding principles? ---
**Author:** ![Anduril](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c0e974/32.png) [@Anduril](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anduril)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2010, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jon-stewart-and-charlton-heston-on-ground-zero-mosque/550885/83 "2010-08-21T00:38:07Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > > [@Anduril](#): > > > > And the fact that there were a lot of muslims cheering the 9/11 explosions > > That is clearly irrelevant. I would very much like to punch those specific people directly in the face, but it’s irrelevant. > > > [@](#): > > > > and the fact that muslims have been known to build mosques over conquered land since time immemorial are all irrelevant. Right? > > Also irrelevant, yes. (And it’s unclear to me that this is more of a trait of Islam than it is of Christianity…) This was in response to the credulty expressed over some muslims treating the mosque as a symbol of victory. Given that a good number of muslims cheered the death of the infidels on 9/11 and that muslims are known to build mosques over conquered land, how unlikely is it really? ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2010, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jon-stewart-and-charlton-heston-on-ground-zero-mosque/550885/84 "2010-08-21T00:38:43Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > > [@cosmosdan](#): > > > > …No shit! Isn’t that something? Vote against health care for first responders and then create outrage over this on the basis of insluting the scared memory of 9/11. > > What else? Usually, things like this, there is some sparking event, some public outrage. Not this time, this thing had been in the works for months, and nobody said much. I’ve no doubt that some of these same people were, but they didn’t make the news, didn’t have politicians shitting themselves. > > This has the earmarks of a media event, came out of nowhere, no fingerprints. Its just all of a sudden you start hearing about how people are talking about the Ground Zero Mosque…how cleverly crafted, a mass of lies stuffed into three little words. How come they were talking about it, all of a sudden. Who brought it up? > > I’ve also heard people saying that it was always just festering beneath the surface, and only the humane leadership of George W. kept it in check. And that idea weirds me out in about nine dimensions. > > PS: my spellchucker thinks “insluting” isn’t a real word. But you and me know different. Oh insluting is a word alright. One I use on many Saturday nights.🙂 Someone posted a link explaining where this story came from. It’s an interesting brief read. It was totally fabricated beginning with a particular anti Muslim group that picked up on an article that made the mistake of having a “Mosque at Ground Zero” sort of headline. From then on it was Hey look everyone , a controversy and conflict. Pile some wood on the fire and let’s not ruin it with the facts. What infiruates me is how this fear mongering for profit increases the division and the chances of violence, and to few gives the fear mongers shit for that. ---
**Author:** ![Anduril](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c0e974/32.png) [@Anduril](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anduril)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2010, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jon-stewart-and-charlton-heston-on-ground-zero-mosque/550885/85 "2010-08-21T00:42:10Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > > [@Anduril](#): > > > > The anger is directed because of the insensitivity of that group. > > And people are saying that because it’s been repeated ad nausem by dishonest hacks. There is absolutely nothing insensitive about a community center being built 2 blocks from ground zero simply because they are Muslim. You can’t see it from ground zero. It’s bullshit manufactured anger. > > What the hell are you talking about? What appeasing have I done? I’m a patriot and I love my country. That’s why it saddens me to see people buy into the fear mongering and ignorence. We should aspire to be better than that. I don’t believe that sort of shit should be appeased. That’s not showing sensitivity. That’s caving to unreasoning mob mentality. > > > [@](#): > > > > \*An Christian extremist group just bombed a very old mosque in Baghdad, killing 3,000 people. Years later, Pastor X decides to build a cathedral just two blocks away from this place. His many sermons have been about spreading Christianity in the Middle East. Muslims expressed their anger. \* > > > > Do you really expect me to believe that people here will not excoriate Pastor X for his insensitivity? Really?!? > > We’ve killed way more than 3000 Muslims by now haven’t we? I mean way, way more. Innocent civilians. There are already many Christian churches in Iraq. > Do you think those Muslims who blanket hate all Americans are justified? Does embracing lingering hatred and resentment and aiming it at groups who aren’t responsible advance our society and live up to our founding principles? I don’t care how the meme got formed - the fact is, it’s already there. And again you’re missing the point re: my final question. I’m just pointing at the hypocrisy of a lot of you here. All of you want to point and laugh at those who find the mosque insensitive and yet none of you have categorically stated that the hypothetical Pastor X WOULDN’T have been excoriated here. These muslims are pricks. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_the\_Immortal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@Max\_the\_Immortal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_the_Immortal)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2010, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jon-stewart-and-charlton-heston-on-ground-zero-mosque/550885/86 "2010-08-21T00:50:58Z")
I’ve read speculation (possibly here on the SDMB) that most journalists have to handle public figures with kid gloves or risk alienating them and losing “access” to them and scaring off other potential interviewees. Jon Stewart has the luxury of being able to risk losing access because he can fall back on interviewing celebrities like Jennifer Aniston (his guest on the night of this particular episode). It works out great for Stewart, because he can not only take shots at real news outlets (and commentators whose not-news shows run on cable news channels), but can also seemingly at will do their job better than they can. I don’t know what’s going on behind the scenes, and he may in fact be burning bridges too quickly to be able to sustain it on a nightly basis, but he doesn’t need to. > [@RickJay](#): > > Air date for us Canadian folks who have to get it off a different web site? [August 19th](http://watch.thecomedynetwork.ca/the-daily-show-with-jon-stewart/full-episodes/the-daily-show-with-jon-stewart---august-19-2010/#clip337023). ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2010, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jon-stewart-and-charlton-heston-on-ground-zero-mosque/550885/87 "2010-08-21T00:59:01Z")
> [@Anduril](#): > > > [@MaxTheVool](#): > > > > That is clearly irrelevant. I would very much like to punch those specific people directly in the face, but it’s irrelevant. > > Also irrelevant, yes. (And it’s unclear to me that this is more of a trait of Islam than it is of Christianity…) > > This was in response to the credulty expressed over some muslims treating the mosque as a symbol of victory. Given that a good number of muslims cheered the death of the infidels on 9/11 and that muslims are known to build mosques over conquered land, how unlikely is it really? It doesn’t matter what some unnamed Muslims might think. Fundamentalist Chriatians think everyone who doesn’t worship Jesus the way they do are going to hell. I don’t give a crap what they think either. I’m not interested in encouraging the spread of any religion for those who think their way is the only true way. I am interested in judging an issue according to the facts and supporting and living up to certain principles. I’m interested in our society not being so easyily manipulated by fear mongers who care nothing about serving the public but have thier own selfish agenda. I think that Muslims in America will only help promote peace as new generations of Muslims born and raised in America work to promote peace. We can encourage this by not being fearful and suspicious of evey Muslim. Let’s not encourage bigotry and see how that works. ---
**Author:** ![Anduril](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c0e974/32.png) [@Anduril](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anduril)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2010, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jon-stewart-and-charlton-heston-on-ground-zero-mosque/550885/88 "2010-08-21T00:59:29Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > You seriously need to do some reading for the facts. There’s a good link that explains how this crap got started. Start there. > > It was falsely labeled the ground zero Mosque and neither is true. Whether you like the facts or not. Sadly people are manipulated by the barrage of false information. It’s sad and infuriating that so many buy into the bullshit and make it profitable and in that way encourage more. All aboard the shit wagon everyone there’s money to be made. It doesn’t matter if we’re inciting fear and resentment. So there’s no mosque there? I want you to categorically lie on your next post in response to this question. > [@](#): > > The word Mosque creates a mental image of [something like this.](http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.images-photography-pictures.net/Baghdad-Iraq-Baghdad-Mosque-The-Poss.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.images-photography-pictures.net/Baghdad_Iraq.htm&usg=__GC7uSu7RTMUjXNHJTn7ovMDxKyA=&h=500&w=330&sz=129&hl=en&start=0&zoom=1&tbnid=aSTM5XlRWoiHGM:&tbnh=141&tbnw=93&prev=/images%3Fq%3DMosques%2Bin%2BBaghdad%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DG%26biw%3D1356%26bih%3D583%26gbv%3D2%26tbs%3Disch:1&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=102&vpy=73&dur=4930&hovh=205&hovw=135&tx=116&ty=114&ei=IwhvTKm7CcT58Abn_OX5Cg&oei=IwhvTKm7CcT58Abn_OX5Cg&esq=1&page=1&ndsp=21&ved=1t:429,r:0,s:0) What we’re actually talking about is a 13 story building that will have a basketball court, swimming pool, culinary school, amd yes, two stories dedicated to religious activities and prayer, and AFIAK it will be open to non Muslims and may have non Muslims on it’s board of directors. None of those facts seem to matter when fanning the fires of fear and resentment. I don’t care about your mental images. A mosque is a place of worship for Muslims. It also functions as a community center - it can have other amenities like gymnasiums, health clinics, libraries, etc. > [@](#): > > Where the hell are you pulling this crap from? Yes maybe ignorant Muslims who are as misinformed and emotional as most people protesting this building might see it as a victory for Islam over the white devil. We don’t combat that by caving in to ignorance and fear mongering. We combat that by standing for our principles , like say, religious freedom. > The more you look at the facts and reject the dishonest bullshit the more you realize it’s all fabricated and designed especially to whip up anti Muslim fear and suspicion. Is that what we stand for? > We have millions of Muslims in this country, Muslims died in 9/11 as well. There is nothing to be bothered about. That conclusion comes from looking for and considering the facts concerning this issue rather than swallowing the bullshit. Yes, people have a right to their opinion and their feelings but at some point we hope our opinions are rooted in an examination of the facts rather than accepting dishonest bullshit and being manipulated by the fear for profit crowd. We hope we aren’t willing and eager to let an emotional reaction to falsehoods overcome our principles and ability to think and reason. > > and black people are good athletes and dancers. What century Muslims are you talking about? Would you say Christian nations {one in particular} are well known for invading Muslim nations. And I don’t care about combating the building of the mosque. All I’m saying is that these muslims are pricks. > [@](#): > > Maybe you’re right. They’re pricks for thinking Muslims should have the same rights as other Americans. They’re pricks for not understanding their connection to the terrorists of 9/11. > Nobody pushed it through. It’s been going on for months as the private transaction it is and everybody involved approved until some right wing anti Muslims group started calling it the ground zero mosque and fanning the fires. It’s to our shame that it has dominated the news and so many have bought into the fear mongering. It’s like McCarthyism or the Salem Witch hunts mentality with Muslim Americans as the Communist witches. Sad and tragic for them and us. > > Right , the plan all along was an in your face American white devil. That’s why the Mayor and the neighborhood Jewish and Christian leaders supported it. It’s a community center and was always planned as a community center so that different cultures can get to know each other and promote harmony and understanding. > Of course if they have a cooking show called Cooking for Allah I’ll boycott it. I’d also advise them against a basketball team named the Bombers. Strawman much? When did I say that they don’t have a right. In fact, I said they do. They’re just insensitive in the same way that Pastor X is. Whether or not it was their original plan, they’re still pricks. In fact a lot of moderate muslims have already written against the building of this mosque precisely because they acknowledge that there will be some in their ranks who will view it as a “victory” over the 3,000 infidels that were slain on that faithful day of 9/11 - Allahu Akbar!!! ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2010, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jon-stewart-and-charlton-heston-on-ground-zero-mosque/550885/89 "2010-08-21T00:59:44Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![Anduril](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c0e974/32.png) [@Anduril](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anduril)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2010, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jon-stewart-and-charlton-heston-on-ground-zero-mosque/550885/90 "2010-08-21T01:00:58Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > > [@Anduril](#): > > > > This was in response to the credulty expressed over some muslims treating the mosque as a symbol of victory. Given that a good number of muslims cheered the death of the infidels on 9/11 and that muslims are known to build mosques over conquered land, how unlikely is it really? > > It doesn’t matter what some unnamed Muslims might think. Fundamentalist Chriatians think everyone who doesn’t worship Jesus the way they do are going to hell. I don’t give a crap what they think either. I’m not interested in encouraging the spread of any religion for those who think their way is the only true way. I am interested in judging an issue according to the facts and supporting and living up to certain principles. I’m interested in our society not being so easyily manipulated by fear mongers who care nothing about serving the public but have thier own selfish agenda. > > I think that Muslims in America will only help promote peace as new generations of Muslims born and raised in America work to promote peace. We can encourage this by not being fearful and suspicious of evey Muslim. Let’s not encourage bigotry and see how that works. And until now, nobody has categorically said that “my” Pastor X will NOT be excoriated for the same reasons. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2010, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jon-stewart-and-charlton-heston-on-ground-zero-mosque/550885/91 "2010-08-21T01:14:02Z")
OK, so some of them are stupid fucking assholes. Got it. So the reason they can’t all, as a group, enjoy the same security and freedom the rest of us do, is that _none_ of us are stupid fucking assholes? Or some of us are stupid fucking assholes, but that doesn’t matter because none of us are stupid fucking _Islamic_ assholes. Now, I’ve got some stupid fucking assholes for blood kin, so I’m thinking it can’t be the first one, but you seem to be the expert on this, so I thought I’d check. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2010, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jon-stewart-and-charlton-heston-on-ground-zero-mosque/550885/92 "2010-08-21T01:18:03Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > (2) Why is it that the most meaningful and moving and honest discussion of so many issues today comes from a comedian? He’s not. He goes after the lowest of the low hanging fruit, usually skirting issues of actual substance. And understandably so, because that stuff is depressing and not conducive to humor. It’s a lot easier to crack jokes about FOX news and Tea Partiers for 2 years than it is to make a segment about Obama gunning down wedding ceremonies with unmanned drones or the two party consensus. At heart the show is in the Democrat party camp – Stewart believes in the system if the right people are in charge, he believes in the betterment of the American people and its institutions, and so does his audience. In terms of meaning or honesty it’s basically Daily Kos with video editing. And it is funny, yes. But let’s not get carried away here. Maybe if you focus your scope to _only_ television you could make a case, but that’s damning with faint praise. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2010, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jon-stewart-and-charlton-heston-on-ground-zero-mosque/550885/93 "2010-08-21T01:19:10Z")
> [@Anduril](#): > > I don’t care how the meme got formed - the fact is, it’s already there. It seems to me that if you give a shit about principle rising above emotion and issues judged on the facts rather than purposeful and malicious distortions you would give a crap about how the meme got formed. > [@](#): > > And again you’re missing the point re: my final question. I’m just pointing at the hypocrisy of a lot of you here. All of you want to point and laugh at those who find the mosque insensitive and yet none of you have categorically stated that the hypothetical Pastor X WOULDN’T have been excoriated here. These muslims are pricks. I didn’t miss anything. I simply responded with real world details instead of some non existant example. It seems like it’s you that have missed the point while you focused on your analogy. Try considering the real world points I made in relation to your fabrication. If it makes it clearer for you I’ll say, no, judging by the real world details I mentioned, nobody would give a rats ass about Pastor X building a Christian center in Baghdad or critisize that Pastor for being insensitive. Once again, it’s not a Mosque for the purpose of speading Islam. It’s a community center open to multiple cultures and religions. If you look at the history of Chritianity you can also focus on some pretty negative points if that’s what you prefer. The fact is Islam also has very positive points in history when it promoted multiculturalism art, music, and religious tolerence. ---
**Author:** ![Anduril](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c0e974/32.png) [@Anduril](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anduril)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2010, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jon-stewart-and-charlton-heston-on-ground-zero-mosque/550885/94 "2010-08-21T01:23:05Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > If it makes it clearer for you I’ll say, no, judging by the real world details I mentioned, nobody would give a rats ass about Pastor X building a Christian center in Baghdad or critisize that Pastor for being insensitive. Once again, it’s not a Mosque for the purpose of speading Islam. It’s a community center open to multiple cultures and religions. If you look at the history of Chritianity you can also focus on some pretty negative points if that’s what you prefer. The fact is Islam also has very positive points in history when it promoted multiculturalism art, music, and religious tolerence. Bullshit! ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2010, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jon-stewart-and-charlton-heston-on-ground-zero-mosque/550885/95 "2010-08-21T01:38:03Z")
> [@Anduril](#): > > And until now, nobody has categorically said that “my” Pastor X will NOT be excoriated for the same reasons. I just said it but I’ll say it again if you like. The whole insensitive bullshit is just a claok for anti Muslim fears. Why in the world should this group of Muslims have to be discouraged from exercising the religious freedom written in our own constitution because of some imagined non existant association with a group of extremeists or other anti American Muslims. It’s not sensitivity to cave in to irrational fears and ignorance. And one again, it is and has always been a planned multiculteral community center, not a Mosque. Dam , Muslims in general are regarded less favorably now than right after 9/11 because of people embracing this anti Muslim fear mongering [Check this out](http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2010-08-17/ground-zero-mosque-controversy-america-has-disgraced-itself/) > [@](#): > > Remember when George W. Bush and his neoconservative allies used to say that the “war on terror” was a struggle on behalf of Muslims, decent folks who wanted nothing more than to live free like you and me? Remember when Karen Hughes paid millions to produce glitzy videos of Muslim Americans testifying about how free they were to practice their religion in the USA? Remember Bush’s second inaugural, when he said “America’s ideal of freedom” is “sustained in our national life by the truths of Sinai, the Sermon on the Mount, the words of the Koran?” We were sure at one point that liberated Muslims would welcome us and gratefully establish a democracy in Iraq. Now we can’t allow American Muslims to build a community center with out seeing it as an insult. Some pathetic lack of progress there. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2010, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jon-stewart-and-charlton-heston-on-ground-zero-mosque/550885/96 "2010-08-21T01:40:12Z")
> [@Anduril](#): > > Strawman much? It seems that if anyone should know about straw men, we should be able to rely on you for that expertise. The Cordoba Initiative has been in the Tribeca neighborhood of Manhattan, (the same neighborhood as the WTC), for decades. They have, during that time, promoted a Sufi view of Islam that is in direct conflict with the Wahabbism of bin Laden and his cronies. They have done so, making do with rental properties scattered around the same neighborhood. A few months back, they decided to invest in the neighborhood in which they have lived and worked for so many years, by purchasing a dilapidated building that has no historical relevance, and replacing it with a new structure. The proposed structure is in the center of a block that has no line of sight to the WTC location and the height of the proposed building is actually shorter than either of the buildings on the two intervening blocks, so the WTC location will not be visible from its top story. All the hoopla about the “Ground Zero Mosque” was invented by haters and you seem to believe that the only “reasonable” solution is for this community group to pick up and leave the neighborhood where they already have roots. If the haters would simply stop their protests, there would be nothing for any radical Islamists to “celebrate,” because it would simply be a quiet building being used by the sort of Muslim that the Islamists already hate. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2010, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jon-stewart-and-charlton-heston-on-ground-zero-mosque/550885/97 "2010-08-21T01:47:33Z")
> [@Anduril](#): > > > [@cosmosdan](#): > > > > If it makes it clearer for you I’ll say, no, judging by the real world details I mentioned, nobody would give a rats ass about Pastor X building a Christian center in Baghdad or critisize that Pastor for being insensitive. Once again, it’s not a Mosque for the purpose of speading Islam. It’s a community center open to multiple cultures and religions. If you look at the history of Chritianity you can also focus on some pretty negative points if that’s what you prefer. The fact is Islam also has very positive points in history when it promoted multiculturalism art, music, and religious tolerence. > > Bullshit! what a joke. you whined that nobody responded only to post this when you got a direct response. You’ve ignored the facts and relied on repeating bogus talking points. I’m convinced this post is the best you have to offer in this debate. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2010, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jon-stewart-and-charlton-heston-on-ground-zero-mosque/550885/98 "2010-08-21T01:52:03Z")
I recommend to you \*A Short History of Islam \*by Karen Armstrong. Informative, acute, and intelligent. At the end of the book, I knew a lot more about Islam and nothing whatever about Ms Armstrongs own religious conviction. I was rather impressed by that. One thing struck me especially: Mohammedans revere Jesus as a prophet and holy man, but refuse to accept the crucifixion, insisting that Allah would not permit one of his beloved messengers such a wretched fate. Turned that over in my mind a whole bunch of times. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2010, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jon-stewart-and-charlton-heston-on-ground-zero-mosque/550885/99 "2010-08-21T01:53:37Z")
> [@Anduril](#): > > The anger is directed because of the insensitivity of that group. You’re all for appeasing the sensibilities of everyone in the world but when it comes to your own people, somehow that’s wrong? The people building the community center are Americans. They are my people. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2010, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jon-stewart-and-charlton-heston-on-ground-zero-mosque/550885/100 "2010-08-21T01:59:00Z")
Sufi proverb: God respects me when I work, but He loves me when I sing. [QUOTE=tomndebb] …Sufi view of Islam that is in direct conflict with the Wahabbism of bin Laden and his cronies… [/QUOTE] Isn’t that just the shit? Sufi catch the shit for Wahabbist hatred. Its like blaming the Unitarians for snaking-handling Pentecostals. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jon-stewart-and-charlton-heston-on-ground-zero-mosque/550885.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jon-stewart-and-charlton-heston-on-ground-zero-mosque/550885.md?page=6)