# Jon Stewart and Charlton Heston on Ground Zero Mosque **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 20, 2010, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jon-stewart-and-charlton-heston-on-ground-zero-mosque/550885 "2010-08-20T16:44:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![qpw3141](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/6bbea6/32.png) [@qpw3141](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/qpw3141)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2010, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jon-stewart-and-charlton-heston-on-ground-zero-mosque/550885/121 "2010-08-21T14:25:53Z")
[quote=“Anduril, post:118, topic:550885”] > [@TriPolar](#): > > We know that they have a propensity for building mosques over conquered soil. True, I don’t have statistics, but is it such a far out idea. Not sure the present tense is valid here. If they **have** such a propensity you might like to give as a few contemporary examples. Certainly ‘they’ have done it in the past but then again so have Christians and Hindus so it’s not as if it’s endemic to any particular religion. Plus, of course, the soil in this instance has not been conquered by Muslims - or even lightly damaged. ---
**Author:** ![qpw3141](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/6bbea6/32.png) [@qpw3141](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/qpw3141)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2010, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jon-stewart-and-charlton-heston-on-ground-zero-mosque/550885/122 "2010-08-21T15:08:22Z")
^^^ Sorry about the misquote in the above. ^^^ It was, of course, Anduril, who posted the quoted piece. My apologies for unintentionally libeling TriPolar. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2010, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jon-stewart-and-charlton-heston-on-ground-zero-mosque/550885/123 "2010-08-21T15:17:41Z")
> [@Anduril](#): > > Muslims are well known for building mosques over conquered soil (most of the time over church grounds)- why would this be seen any different. Cordova? Don’t you think it’s a bit too suggestive. 1. The only ones who are threatening to “conquer” that “soil” are the ones who want to remove it from the rest of America – to remove it from from the religiously-tolerant, Constitution-respecting rest of the country. (Plus maybe a few Burlington Coat Factory worshippers.) 2. “Cordoba” was chosen because it evokes the religously tolerant, relatively-enlightened-for-its-time melting pot which was southern Spain in late medieval times. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2010, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jon-stewart-and-charlton-heston-on-ground-zero-mosque/550885/124 "2010-08-21T15:21:26Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally Posted by \*\*Anduril \*\* > > I gave you the name. It’s Joseph. :rolleyes: What utter idiocy! We know that a lot of Muslims danced in the streets in the aftermath of 9/11. We know that they have a propensity for building mosques over conquered soil. True, I don’t have statistics, but is it such a far out idea. Why do you keep repeating this crap as if it’s relevant? I suppose you’re insinuating that since some Muslims in a another country celebrated the attack and in **previous centuries** Muslims built Mosques in lands they conquered {often just converting existing religious buildings} then a group of American citizens who happen to be Muslims wanting a community center in a neighborhood they’ve lived in for years is somehow equivalent to those acts. No it isn’t equivalent at all. the very act of connecting all Muslims {or all anything for that matter} to those acts smacks of unreasoning unwarrented fear and bigotry. I sincerely hope that isn’t what we’re about. Some claim to support their constitutional right of religious freedom and then loudly proclaim it’s about being considerate or sensitive, trying to bring pressure to bare so they willingly surrender their rights as Muslim Americans. Those folks have no real grasp of those rights. It’s like standing at the polling place trying to discourage women or blacks from voting. Sure, we acknowledge that you have those rights, but we don’t think you should actually exercise them unless we approve of it. It will be a loss for our society if the pressure brought by ignorant fear mongering actually wins out. Then again, maybe this will work in helping them raise money so they have an even better community center a few blocks further away. Just imagine how relieved all the anti Muslims will be if that happens “We won We won, they built an even bigger Islamic community center 6 blocks away.” There’s a little town about a half hour south of here named Murfreesboro. Nice little town, I used to drive there to work. The Islamic community there got the same kind of reaction for their Mosque and planned community center. Even though they’d been there and worshipped there for years when they bought property to expand there was an outcry to stop them and vandalism. The new Bapatist church right next door went up without a problem. That’s not the kind of America I hope for. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2010, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jon-stewart-and-charlton-heston-on-ground-zero-mosque/550885/125 "2010-08-21T15:26:36Z")
> [@](#): > > 1. “Cordoba” was chosen because it evokes the religously tolerant, relatively-enlightened-for-its-time melting pot which was southern Spain in late medieval times. And they’ve already compromised by changing it to Park 51 ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2010, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jon-stewart-and-charlton-heston-on-ground-zero-mosque/550885/126 "2010-08-21T15:56:25Z")
Wait a second! Charlton Heston was also L. Sid, in the movie of the same name. about the Spanish hero who rode into battle dead. Just once, of course, not an act that lends itself to repitition. And he’s dead now, and riding into battle! Well, sort of. And while it is true that Cordoba was a center of learning and wisdom in its time, it is also responsilbe for spreading the evil science of _al-jibberish_, which evolved into the algebra that I was grounded for flunking twice! Connect the dot, people, connect the dot! ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2010, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jon-stewart-and-charlton-heston-on-ground-zero-mosque/550885/127 "2010-08-21T16:13:53Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Wait a second! Charlton Heston was also L. Sid, in the movie of the same name. about the Spanish hero who rode into battle dead. Just once, of course, not an act that lends itself to repitition. And he’s dead now, and riding into battle! Well, sort of. > > And while it is true that Cordoba was a center of learning and wisdom in its time, it is also responsilbe for spreading the evil science of _al-jibberish_, which evolved into the algebra that I was grounded for flunking twice! > > Connect the dot, people, connect the dot! yeah yeah, and and, Hindus wear a dot on their heads and there a lot of them in India where there are also Muslims, so that red dot is the inner eye they use to see how much they hate America and implement their fiendish plot to steal our tech support jobs. {I’ve learned so much from Glen Beck about logic} ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2010, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jon-stewart-and-charlton-heston-on-ground-zero-mosque/550885/128 "2010-08-21T16:43:15Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > It will be a loss for our society if the pressure brought by ignorant fear mongering actually wins out. I hate to be the one to tell you this, but ignorant fear mongering is 1,389,920,590 and 0. And I just don’t see it losing this one either. ---
**Author:** ![qpw3141](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/6bbea6/32.png) [@qpw3141](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/qpw3141)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2010, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jon-stewart-and-charlton-heston-on-ground-zero-mosque/550885/129 "2010-08-21T16:47:59Z")
> [@emacknight](#): > > > [@cosmosdan](#): > > > > It will be a loss for our society if the pressure brought by ignorant fear mongering actually wins out. > > I hate to be the one to tell you this, but ignorant fear mongering is 1,389,920,590 and 0. > > And I just don’t see it losing this one either. Yes, the problem is that ‘people should be sensitive to the feelings of others’ just sounds so damn reasonable. Until you actually think about how it applies in a particular context. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2010, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jon-stewart-and-charlton-heston-on-ground-zero-mosque/550885/130 "2010-08-21T17:41:35Z")
> [@Anduril](#): > > You expect a video? Taqiyya? I expect any form of declarative expression you wish to put on the table. Like I said, I don’t give a toss the form it takes, I don’t care one bit whom it comes from, I want that crowing Muslim on my browser. Taqiyya ? What does that even mean ? [Wikipedia later…] Oh. So you’re saying, “of course they’re not going to \*say \*it. But I know how them Muslims are”. I already told you I wouldn’t accept that dodge. Besides, don’t you know about the Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory ? It’s anonymous out there on the interwebs, and not dangerous either. I’m \*sure \*you’ll have no trouble finding one of the vastly numerous Muslims you’re talking about. Maybe a Facebook group ? Or hit the YouTube comments, inch Allah. ---
**Author:** ![qpw3141](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/6bbea6/32.png) [@qpw3141](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/qpw3141)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2010, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jon-stewart-and-charlton-heston-on-ground-zero-mosque/550885/131 "2010-08-21T17:51:16Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Oh. So you’re saying, “of course they’re not going to \*say \*it. But I know how them Muslims are”. I already told you I wouldn’t accept that dodge. But … but … It worked for GWB: “You say you haven’t found any WMD? Well, that just _ **proves** _ that they must have them - otherwise why would they go to so much trouble to hide them?” ---
**Author:** ![Mapache](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/58956e/32.png) [@Mapache](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mapache)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2010, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jon-stewart-and-charlton-heston-on-ground-zero-mosque/550885/132 "2010-08-21T17:55:05Z")
> [@yojimbo](#): > > Can’t be viewed outside the States. I can see it here in Oaxaca. Maybe it’s an Irish thing; aren’t you guys supposed to be drunk most of the time? ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2010, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jon-stewart-and-charlton-heston-on-ground-zero-mosque/550885/133 "2010-08-22T00:06:26Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > The most effective part is that he showed a Fox host (Van Susternen? I have no idea) guest hosting on Bill O’Reilly’s show and saying “I really like what you’re doing, Ms. Khan, and we appreciate it.” Laura Ingraham, actually. I haven’t finished reading the thread, but I wanted to say that before I forgot. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2010, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jon-stewart-and-charlton-heston-on-ground-zero-mosque/550885/134 "2010-08-22T02:49:02Z")
Same litter. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2010, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jon-stewart-and-charlton-heston-on-ground-zero-mosque/550885/135 "2010-08-22T17:54:10Z")
this is a duplicate of something I posted in the other Park 51 thread. I just read an [article about Imam Ruaf](http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/22/nyregion/22imam.html) It’s paints a picture of a man long dedicated toward peace and trying to build a bridge between Islam and the west. > [@](#): > > He consistently denounces violence. Some of his views on the interplay between terrorism and American foreign policy — or his search for commonalities between Islamic law and this country’s Constitution — have proved jarring to some American ears, but still place him as pro-American within the Muslim world. He devotes himself to befriending Christians and Jews — so much, some Muslim Americans say, that he has lost touch with their own concerns. > > “To stereotype him as an extremist is just nuts,” said the Very Rev. James P. Morton, the longtime dean of the Church of St. John the Divine, in Manhattan, who has known the family for decades. > [@](#): > > After 9/11, Mr. Abdul Rauf was all over the airwaves denouncing terrorism, urging Muslims to confront its presence among them, and saying that killing civilians violated Islam. He wrote a book, “What’s Right With Islam Is What’s Right With America,” asserting the congruence of American democracy and Islam. > [@](#): > > Those opponents repeat often that Mr. Abdul Rauf, in one radio interview, refused to describe the Palestinian group that pioneered suicide bombings against Israel, Hamas, as a terrorist organization. In the lengthy interview, Mr. Abdul Rauf clumsily tries to say that people around the globe define terrorism differently and labeling any group would sap his ability to build bridges. He also says: “Targeting civilians is wrong. It is a sin in our religion,” and, “I am a supporter of the state of Israel.” There’s also a link to an earlier article about Park 51 from Dec 8, 2009 > [@](#): > > The location was precisely a key selling point for the group of Muslims who bought the building in July. A presence so close to the World Trade Center, “where a piece of the wreckage fell,” said Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf, the cleric leading the project, “sends the opposite statement to what happened on 9/11.” > > “We want to push back against the extremists,” added Imam Feisal, 61. This man is not the enemy within. If there are people in this issue that deserve that title it’s the liars and fear mongers who are willing to distort the truth to serve their own selfish ends regardless of how it hurts innocent people or our soceity. This Imam and his project is one we should be supporting and celebrating in hopes to bring peace to future generations of Americans and the Muslims of the Middle East. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jon-stewart-and-charlton-heston-on-ground-zero-mosque/550885/136 "2010-08-23T16:58:48Z")
> [@qpw3141](#): > > ^^^ Sorry about the misquote in the above. ^^^ > > It was, of course, Anduril, who posted the quoted piece. > > My apologies for unintentionally libeling TriPolar. No prob. I appreciate the apology. Now I don’t have to go all ‘unnamed Muslim’ on you. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jon-stewart-and-charlton-heston-on-ground-zero-mosque/550885/137 "2010-08-23T18:20:02Z")
… ---
**Author:** ![Anduril](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c0e974/32.png) [@Anduril](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anduril)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jon-stewart-and-charlton-heston-on-ground-zero-mosque/550885/138 "2010-08-23T18:36:24Z")
"The location was precisely a key selling point for the group of Muslims who bought the building in July. A presence so close to the World Trade Center, “where a piece of the wreckage fell,” said Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf, the cleric leading the project, “sends the opposite statement to what happened on 9/11.” “We want to push back against the extremists,” added Imam Feisal, 61. " They want to rehabilitate the image of Islam. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jon-stewart-and-charlton-heston-on-ground-zero-mosque/550885/139 "2010-08-23T18:41:19Z")
> [@Anduril](#): > > In fact a lot of moderate muslims have already written against the building of this mosque precisely because they acknowledge that there will be some in their ranks who will view it as a “victory” over the 3,000 infidels that were slain on that faithful day of 9/11 - Allahu Akbar!!! Okay, let me ask you a question. Which scenario do you think is more likely to happen: Park 51 construction goes ahead, and the community center is opened. Radical Wahabbist Muslims declare that this shows Islam is spreading in the west, and is a sure sign of the inevitable victory of Allah over the decadent Americans. Park 51 construction is halted, either through direct legal action, or because the group trying to build it give up in the face of overwhelming criticism. Radical Wahabbist Muslims declare that this shows that the west is reeling in terror of Islam, and is a sure sign of the inevitable victory of Allah over the decadent Americans. And the answers is: they’re both equally likely. Because the people who say this sort of thing are demagogues. They’ll interpret any event in a way that best promotes their personal beliefs. Any thing America does that touches on Islam in the remotest fashion is going to be seized on as an example of how Islam is better than America, and is sure to triumph. That’s why there’s no point in listening to these people: they always come to the same conclusions, regardless of the data presented to them. The analogy between this and Fox News is left as an exercise to the reader. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jon-stewart-and-charlton-heston-on-ground-zero-mosque/550885/140 "2010-08-23T18:42:40Z")
Dear God, seriously? Well, hell, I take it all back, a clearer evidence of evil and perfidy could hardly be imagined! Just as the Lord said, “Fuck peacemakers, God hates 'em!” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jon-stewart-and-charlton-heston-on-ground-zero-mosque/550885.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jon-stewart-and-charlton-heston-on-ground-zero-mosque/550885.md?page=8)