# Jon Stewart on Crossfire **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 15, 2004, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jon-stewart-on-crossfire/269457 "2004-10-15T21:03:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![js\_africanus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/87869e/32.png) [@js\_africanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/js_africanus)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2004, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jon-stewart-on-crossfire/269457/141 "2004-10-18T19:18:35Z")
> [@bupkis](#): > > If I was feeling pedantic I would side with Miss Manners and insist that rude is rude, regarless of who started it. She’s an advocate of snubbing, and that seems pretty rude to me. I came in on the show late, after the fun started. It appeared to me that Jon’s hands were shaking, as with fear, as he was talking to those guys. Their intransigence in even acknowledging his substantative point, that the Fourth Estate is shirking its duties, was really mind-boggling. The show was _not_ funny. (Except the bow-tie line.) Jon was _not_ rude. It was like _Mr. Stewart Goes to Washington_. (Maybe, I’ve never actually seen it.) I saw Stewart on the show, confronting two of the premier political “news” personalities, and delivering an incredibly important and much needed message: You are failing your obligations as news men and failing the nation as members of the Fourth Estate. Stewart could have sold more books by being funny and giving those guys a gentle ribbing that they could work with for some laughs while leaving the show unscathed. He could have done more for his career by going on the show with kid gloves and being nice to the powers that be. (“You want air time on _Crossfire_? Right, weren’t you just on _The Daily Show_? We’ll get back to you on that…”) But he couldn’t have really made his point. He went out there and shot himself in the foot. But he was direct, he was serious, and he stayed on point. The hosts, especially Tucker, completely failed to respond to, and from what I saw, they completely failed to get, the point that Stewart was making. It was as if they really believed that _Crosstalk_ is a forum for substantative debate on important topics. I’m thinking about buying his book just to put a buck in his pocket for doing the right thing. He’s a helluva lot better American than that asshole Tucker is, that’s for sure. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2004, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jon-stewart-on-crossfire/269457/142 "2004-10-18T19:26:20Z")
> [@Sam Stone](#): > > I’m not sure Stewart’s new found hostility and partisanship is playing all that well. In the last ratings period, _The Daily Show_ has lost 12% of its audience. Including me, most nights. I often tune in, and go, “Oh, they’re off on another anti-Republican rant”, and change the channel. I absolutely love the Daily Show, and I’m hoping it’ll settle back to doing better comedy after the election. > > I can understand why Democrats would think it’s hilarious, though. I suspect the 12% drop-off is probably 80% Republican. I don’t know about that. I’m liberal, I’m a huge Daily Show fan, but I haven’t been watching it nearly as often lately as I used to. It’s not because the show isn’t as funny, or because I’m put off by an angrier, more confrontational Jon Stewart (actually, I _love_ the angrier, more confrontational Jon Stewart). It’s because I am so. Fucking. Sick. Of this election. I just don’t need to hear any more about it, and I’ve been avoided TV shows and news articles focusing on it, beyond what’s needed to keep me minimally informed. And I suspect that attitude is shared by a good number of other people. I wonder how Daily Show’s ratings drop off compares to the recent ratings of other politically-themed television shows. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2004, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jon-stewart-on-crossfire/269457/143 "2004-10-18T20:44:02Z")
Here is my favorite exchange. From the CNN transcript. > [@](#): > > STEWART: You know, the interesting thing I have is, you have a responsibility to the public discourse, and you fail miserably. > > CARLSON: You need to get a job at a journalism school, I think. > > STEWART: You need to go to one. ---
**Author:** ![Orbifold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/779978/32.png) [@Orbifold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orbifold)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2004, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jon-stewart-on-crossfire/269457/144 "2004-10-18T22:31:45Z")
> [@js\_africanus](#): > > It appeared to me that Jon’s hands were shaking, as with fear, as he was talking to those guys. My wife pegged that as anger. She thought that Jon Stewart looked pissed, especially right after the commercial break. ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2004, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jon-stewart-on-crossfire/269457/145 "2004-10-18T22:51:10Z")
The guy’s got the biggest brass cajones I have ever seen, and, after downloading (never watch it on the tube), I thought Stewart’s appearance on Crossfire was so goddamn fucking brilliant I almost wept for joy. How he got up the nerve to lay into those two so mercilessly I’ll never know, but let’s hope he gets another opportunity to demonstrate his chutzpah to the media drones and sycophants again. Perhaps the only downside to this appearance may be the reluctance potential future hosts will have about inviting Stewart on for their own live pummelling. Then again, these people are whores, so anything for ratings, perhaps. ---
**Author:** ![initech](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/439d5e/32.png) [@initech](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/initech)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2004, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jon-stewart-on-crossfire/269457/146 "2004-10-18T23:20:25Z")
For something so inflammatory and entertaining–not to mention relevant–I’m struck by how little press this has received. Sure, plenty of message board and blog talk, but nothing I’ve seen on the cable networks or their respective web sites. Perhaps a little fear of directing an eye inward? Ratings-wise, the Daily Show has been doing spectacularly. Yes, numbers are down in August versus September, but remember that August contained a convention and key interviews (including the famed Kerry appearance). Also, network viewership is higher since the new season started last month, which should drain the cable audience a bit. Anyone familiar with ratings knows what matters isn’t month to month, it’s year to year (ie Aug 03 compared to Aug 04). This story was a Drudge smear job, nothing more. Crossfire today was simply shameless. Carville and the Douchebag of Liberty were hosting. When the time came to read viewer feedback, they read two emails, BOTH supportive of Crossfire. Carville said he was proud to be a hack (I love Carville) and Novak called Stewart uninformed. What a douchebag. To see this episode, you’d think NO ONE thought Stewart had a point. In reality of course, almost everyone–including Crossfire’s own studio audience–sided with Stewart. ---
**Author:** ![AveDementia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bc8723/32.png) [@AveDementia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AveDementia)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2004, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jon-stewart-on-crossfire/269457/147 "2004-10-19T00:40:02Z")
Carville and Novak have responded on their show. Transcript [here.](http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0410/18/cf.01.html) Their comments about Jon are near the bottom. Looks like they didn’t catch a clue at all… ---
**Author:** ![AveDementia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bc8723/32.png) [@AveDementia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AveDementia)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2004, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jon-stewart-on-crossfire/269457/148 "2004-10-19T00:44:11Z")
Or- what **initech** said. That will teach me to wander off for an hour halfway through a post… ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2004, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jon-stewart-on-crossfire/269457/149 "2004-10-19T01:20:58Z")
I want to have Jon Stewart’s babies. ---
**Author:** ![thermalribbon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@thermalribbon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thermalribbon)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2004, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jon-stewart-on-crossfire/269457/150 "2004-10-19T01:51:05Z")
First of all, from an information perspective, Crossfire is pretty worthless. Stewart is correct to call a spade a spade, that instead of providing a public service news program, they provide airspace for partisans to come in and say just about anything they want without faciing a serious line of questioning. That being said, I found that Stewart’s perspective to be a bit ingenious as well. Having seen him on Charlie Rose recently, it is clear that he is supporting Kerry in this election and is most likely a full time liberal democrat. I don’t think he is unhappy that Crossfire is not pursuing a quest for the truth, he is unhappy that they aren’t pusuing President Bush. His humor on The Daily Show reminds me a great deal of Maureen Dowd’s humor - and seems to share similar commentary and criticism. People say that John Stewart “skewers both sides” - similar to what they say about Dowd. But I disagree, Stewart skewers the GOP and conservatives because he believes that they are wrong. Stewart skewers the Dems and Kerry etc… because they are ineffective at stopping/confronting the GOP and conservative ideas. So, if it seemed like he was going after Carlson more, it’s because he is more passionate about attacking his ideas. Begala seemed to get more of a pass, I believe, because Stewart shares his ideology. He would like to see Begala more aggressive about denouncing conservatives. At least, that’s the way I see it. ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2004, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jon-stewart-on-crossfire/269457/151 "2004-10-19T01:55:17Z")
> [@thermalribbon](#): > > So, if it seemed like he was going after Carlson more, it’s because he is more passionate about attacking his ideas. Begala seemed to get more of a pass, I believe, because Stewart shares his ideology. He would like to see Begala more aggressive about denouncing conservatives. > > At least, that’s the way I see it. I disagree with this last part. I think Stewart went after Carlson because Carlson opened his mouth more often. It was Tucker who brought up Stewart’s interview with Kerry, and it was Tucker who did most of the protesting. Begala just sort of shut his mouth after the “he’ll be unemployed soon” crack. ---
**Author:** ![Hellestal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3ab097/32.png) [@Hellestal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hellestal)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2004, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jon-stewart-on-crossfire/269457/152 "2004-10-19T02:04:38Z")
> [@thermalribbon](#): > > That being said, I found that Stewart’s perspective to be a bit ingenious as well. Having seen him on Charlie Rose recently, it is clear that he is supporting Kerry in this election and is most likely a full time liberal democrat. > > I don’t think he is unhappy that Crossfire is not pursuing a quest for the truth, he is unhappy that they aren’t pusuing President Bush. His humor on The Daily Show reminds me a great deal of Maureen Dowd’s humor - and seems to share similar commentary and criticism. People say that John Stewart “skewers both sides” - similar to what they say about Dowd. But I disagree, Stewart skewers the GOP and conservatives because he believes that they are wrong. Stewart skewers the Dems and Kerry etc… because they are ineffective at stopping/confronting the GOP and conservative ideas. I don’t think I’m the first in this thread to say this, and I know Jon Stewart has mentioned it before, but here it is again. If your job is to make fun of the people in power, and it’s the Republicans who control the White House and Republicans who control Congress, _who are you going to make fun of?_ The Democrats? The people who aren’t in control right now? If you really think so… well… That would be kinda dumb. > [@](#): > > So, if it seemed like he was going after Carlson more, it’s because he is more passionate about attacking his ideas. Begala seemed to get more of a pass, I believe, because Stewart shares his ideology. He would like to see Begala more aggressive about denouncing conservatives. Begala was not the one who got pissy and defensive and starting attacking Jon Stewart. He sat back and let Carlson do most of the talking, and it was a smart thing, too. Carlson got eaten up. Begala did the smart thing by doing nothing, and letting his cohost make a fool out of himself. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2004, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jon-stewart-on-crossfire/269457/153 "2004-10-19T02:05:35Z")
When did Stewart attack Ted Koppel? As for Novak, his idea of “uninformed” is not knowing who’s secretly working for the CIA. ---
**Author:** ![pokey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ebca7d/32.png) [@pokey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pokey)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2004, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jon-stewart-on-crossfire/269457/154 "2004-10-19T02:48:03Z")
Also, what is **spin alley**? ---
**Author:** ![sleeping](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/839c29/32.png) [@sleeping](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sleeping)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2004, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jon-stewart-on-crossfire/269457/155 "2004-10-19T03:13:57Z")
> [@pokey](#): > > Also, what is **spin alley**? From what I understand, it’s a general term for some of the information that’s used for post-debate analysis (like what the representative of each side has to say about it, etc.). More [here](http://journalism.nyu.edu/pubzone/weblogs/pressthink/2003/11/22/spin_alley.html): > [@](#): > > Wherever there is a big candidates’ debate there is Spin Alley. After the debate, journalists have to write stories, produce TV packages. For this they need quotes and authorized knowers who can talk on camera. > > There to provide such are the spinners: hired guns, stand-ins, soulmates who agree to meet the press after the debate to explain why their candidate “won.” Of course this is a verdict known in advance; however that fact too is known in advance, so no one really minds. > > \ > > If you asked one of the reporters swarming the alley “why come to such a place in search of perspective on the news?” the possible answers are: > > [ul] > [li]It’s convenient, given my deadline and the need for reactions and quotes. [/li][li]My editor expects me to be here, with the rest of the press. [/li][li]Look, everyone knows it’s propaganda; we’re not easily spun. [/li][li]Frankly, I am not sure why, but this is the way everyone does it. [/li][/ul] > > \ > > The Press Has Political Partners. Spin Alley, an invention of the American press and politicos, shows that the system we have is in certain ways a partnership between the press and insiders in politics. They come together to mount the ritual. An intelligent nation is entitled to ask if the partners are engaged in public service when they bring to life their invention, Spin Alley, after every presidential debate. Alternative thesis: they are in a pact of mutual convenience that serves no intelligible public good. ---
**Author:** ![pokey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ebca7d/32.png) [@pokey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pokey)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2004, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jon-stewart-on-crossfire/269457/156 "2004-10-19T03:31:21Z")
Thanks **sleeping**. It all makes sense now. ---
**Author:** ![SuperNova](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea666f/32.png) [@SuperNova](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuperNova)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2004, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jon-stewart-on-crossfire/269457/157 "2004-10-19T04:42:27Z")
Just for the record, on today’s Crossfire they had a few viewers respond to Jon’s appearance, though sadly not very interestingly… [From here…](http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0410/18/cf.01.html) > [@](#): > > NOVAK: Next, what did you think of Jon Stewart’s appearance on CROSSFIRE? Our viewers respond next. > > (APPLAUSE) > > (COMMERCIAL BREAK) > > CARVILLE: Friday, Jon Stewart, host of “The Daily Show,” appeared on CROSSFIRE and used his time to blast this show and the media at large. His appearance has generated a lot of comments. > > Matt Lewis of Toronto, Ontario, says – well, what does Matt say? > > Here you go, Bob. > > NOVAK: OK. Here’s Matt Lewis from Toronto, Ontario. We’ll get this right. > > “Well, my suspicions have been confirmed. Jon Stewart is the most overrated, overhyped comedian in the world today. I presume Jon Stewart must regard the viewers of CROSSFIRE as hacks if he does think we are able to see through the talking points and come to an analytical decision about what we believe to be true.” > > CARVILLE: Well, you know what? I’m a hack. I’m kind of proud of it. Now, and it’s one thing if Jon Stewart wants to attack CROSSFIRE. That’s his business and we have a good time with it. Why is he attacking Ted Koppel? NOVAK: Here’s another thing. > > “Thank you for letting Jon Stewart speak on your show. You had the guts to allow him to speak freely. Thank you.” – Morgan Terry. I guess that’s Boerne, Texas. > > (CHEERING AND APPLAUSE) > > NOVAK: Let me say something about Jon Stewart. I don’t think he’s funny. And I know he’s uninformed. > > CARVILLE: Well, I think he’s funny. I just think he’s a pompous ass attacking Ted Koppel. Why would you want to attack somebody that’s been in this business this long? Attack CROSSFIRE, Tucker, me. Who cares? > > NOVAK: Because he’s uninformed. Because he’s uninformed. > > CARVILLE: He’s funny, but he shouldn’t attack Ted Koppel. > > From the left, I’m James Carville. > > Glad to have you back, Bob. > > And that’s it for the CROSSFIRE. > > NOVAK: Thank you. > > From the right, I’m Robert Novak. Join us again next time for another edition of CROSSFIRE. > > “WOLF BLITZER REPORTS” starts right now. > > (APPLAUSE) ---
**Author:** ![Silentgoldfish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@Silentgoldfish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silentgoldfish)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2004, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jon-stewart-on-crossfire/269457/158 "2004-10-19T04:59:27Z")
Yeah, like they were going to air letters they got that supported Stewart. To do that they’d have to be the kind of show he was saying they should be instead of the kind of show they are now. ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2004, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jon-stewart-on-crossfire/269457/159 "2004-10-19T05:47:02Z")
Someone else has said almost everything I was going to say, so I’ll just mention that it’s lambaste, not lamblast. ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2004, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jon-stewart-on-crossfire/269457/160 "2004-10-19T05:50:41Z")
Oh yeah, and what _did_ Stewart say about Koppel? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jon-stewart-on-crossfire/269457.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jon-stewart-on-crossfire/269457.md?page=9)