# Jonathan and "You" **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [April 2, 2019, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-and-you/831943 "2019-04-02T18:55:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2019, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-and-you/831943/1 "2019-04-02T18:55:28Z")
**Jonathan Chance** , not all uses of “you” are personal. The English language permits the same word to be used in the \*generic \*sense, instead of the archaic or twee"one" or “ones”. Inappropriate mod note [here](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21570448&postcount=216). We could get into the existence of several other, indisputable “personalizations” in this and other gun threads that nonetheless go unmodded, except that I’m sure you’re scanning at least this latest one for such things and will act accordingly. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2019, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-and-you/831943/2 "2019-04-02T19:41:56Z")
Sorry, when you go with “please admit it” you’ve personalized the argument. The rest of the sentence is bonus, and without you providing any additional context it all seems personalized to me. ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2019, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-and-you/831943/3 "2019-04-02T19:42:14Z")
I don’t know…I think that the phrasing “you yourself” makes the generic aspect null and void. I can see your point as plausible if it wasn’t for the word “yourself.” To me, that seems more personal than generic. I think his note was spot-on. ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2019, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-and-you/831943/4 "2019-04-02T23:38:35Z")
I have to agree it seems very personal; I went back and read the original entire post, from which **JC** extracted that quote. It was an exchange between **ElvisL1ves** and **XT**. I was fine until the last sentence, > [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > And, please admit it, if you spend any amount time indulging those fantasies, then you do want to do it. If you wanted that to be general rather than personal it would require some rephrasing to make that clear. You might have said: “And anyone who spends any amount of time indulging those fantasies should admit that they do want to do it.” The previous “yourself” gets a pass in context, I think, but this sentence as written does sound personal. If that’s not what you wanted to express, remember that you only got a note not a warning, so that you will be more careful and thoughtful next time. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2019, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-and-you/831943/5 "2019-04-02T23:42:49Z")
You quoted XT and earlier in the post you wrote “You just don’t like it.” It seems like you were pretty directly addressing him throughout that post. If you wanted to make the distinction that the last sentence / paragraph were not directed at him personally, you failed spectacularly. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2019, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-and-you/831943/6 "2019-04-02T23:58:54Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > **Jonathan Chance** , not all uses of “you” are personal. The English language permits the same word to be used in the \*generic \*sense, instead of the archaic or twee"one" or “ones”. Inappropriate mod note [here](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21570448&postcount=216). > > We could get into the existence of several other, indisputable “personalizations” in this and other gun threads that nonetheless go unmodded, except that I’m sure you’re scanning at least this latest one for such things and will act accordingly. It’s your responsibility to make your meaning clear. You (I mean specifically you) have been around plenty long enough to realize that kind of phrasing could get you into trouble. If you don’t want to be misunderstood, take more care with how you say things. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2019, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-and-you/831943/7 "2019-04-03T01:33:35Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > It’s your responsibility to make your meaning clear. You (I mean specifically you) have been around plenty long enough to realize that kind of phrasing could get you into trouble. If you don’t want to be misunderstood, take more care with how you say things. Yes, posters should try to make sure their posts won’t be misunderstood. But, at the same time, moderators should not assume the worst possible interpretation of someone’s post. **Jonathan Chance** does not even acknowledge the possibility that he is using the impersonal “you.” He just assumes the guy is deliberately trying to break the rules. Why should the posters have to think through how someone might misinterpret their post, but the mods don’t have to think through how they might have misinterpreted the post they just read? And why, in general, assume that we’re actually intentionally breaking the rules instead of just slipping up or not realizing that we’ve broken the rules? Sure, it happens, but it’s rare. Nearly all rule violations are unintentional. It would be nice if the moderators acknowledged this. I note that the mods who have tend to get fewer ATMB posts about their moderation. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2019, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-and-you/831943/8 "2019-04-03T01:37:33Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > But, at the same time, moderators should not assume the worst possible interpretation of someone’s post. **Jonathan Chance** does not even acknowledge the possibility that he is using the impersonal “you.” He just assumes the guy is deliberately trying to break the rules. Two grammar things: 1. Yeah, “you” can mean “one.” It’s a third-person impersonal “you.” 2. The imperative (“And please admit it”) mood contains an implied “you”: “And please [you] admit it.” This implied “you” is **not** the same as the third-person impersonal “you.” It’s personal. When someone uses “you” in a sentence that begins with an imperative, it’s very hard to construe that use of “you” as the third-person impersonal “you”; rather, it’s a continuation of the unspoken imperative “you.” ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2019, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-and-you/831943/9 "2019-04-03T01:51:55Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > And why, in general, assume that we’re actually intentionally breaking the rules instead of just slipping up or not realizing that we’ve broken the rules? Sure, it happens, but it’s rare. Nearly all rule violations are unintentional. Well, had I thought it was intentional I’d have warned him, BigT. Let’s just get that out there right now. Moderator notes serve as a means of giving some light correction to posters who may have strayed over or close to a line that might lead to warnings. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2019, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-and-you/831943/10 "2019-04-03T03:10:39Z")
Yeah, I agree with the OP in general that a generic you sometimes gets misunderstood as a personal you, but there were just too many "you"s in that sentence and when it is finished with an “aren’t they?” it invites the receiving poster to respond, giving the impression that it is a personal you. I mean, if it was only the general you that thought that shooting someone was fun, much more fun that using nicotine or driving fast cars, then why ask the personal you to confirm or deny it? How would that poster have an answer if the “you” wasn’t directed at him? ---
**Author:** ![Isosleepy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/isosleepy/32/479_2.png) [@Isosleepy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isosleepy)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2019, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-and-you/831943/11 "2019-04-03T03:27:17Z")
That doesn’t read as generic “you” to me, at all. Frankly, a warning would not have been out of place, and keeping it to a note to me indicates giving maximum benefit of the doubt. I think complaining about this modding is incorrect.