# Jonathan Chance: So What is the Official List of Things You Want Me to Remain Silent About **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [November 12, 2013, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-chance-so-what-is-the-official-list-of-things-you-want-me-to-remain-silent-about/673697 "2013-11-12T03:49:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2013, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-chance-so-what-is-the-official-list-of-things-you-want-me-to-remain-silent-about/673697/182 "2013-11-14T23:54:27Z")
> [@Cheshire\_Human](#): > > I’m guessing the answer is either **Der Trihs** or Hitler. What do I win? It’s was more like a Zen koan. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-chance-so-what-is-the-official-list-of-things-you-want-me-to-remain-silent-about/673697/183 "2013-11-15T00:26:15Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > That’s a pretty impressive example of ignoring how the whole issue has been treated for centuries. [Quite famously](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Untermensch) in some cases. The point of drawing a line around a population and calling them less intelligent has _always_ been to portray them as lesser beings, undeserving of the consideration given to real people. And making handwaves about your preferred definition of a word won’t change that. I’ll remember that next time I see a school divide its classes by ability, and remember that they don’t think the lower ones are human. This, by the way, is another example of your absurd overgeneralisation. It has not _always_ been used that way, it has _sometimes_ been used that way. ---
**Author:** ![Karrius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/71c47a/32.png) [@Karrius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Karrius)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-chance-so-what-is-the-official-list-of-things-you-want-me-to-remain-silent-about/673697/184 "2013-11-15T00:45:24Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Does anyone see any difference between the following - > [ul][li]Here is a cite showing that, when you correct for SES and parental education levels, group X tends to score somewhat lower on SAT tests. Is it possible that part of this might be due to genetic differences?[/li][li]The great majority of US citizens kill brown people for fun[/li][li]Anti-abortionists want to kill women with clubs.[/ul][/li] > Regards, > Shodan Yes, the differences I see are: -The first ought to be moderated, especially when it’s proven that the people constantly posting the first are liars, over and over, but isn’t moderated because conservative hate speech is deemed “acceptable” by our society. -The second and third are things that aren’t actually said, so nobody should really care about. Once again, I find it absolutely _amazing_ and completely telling how many people are willing to go to bat for the racists, consider hate speech not hate speech, and then whine they’re being discriminated against. ---
**Author:** ![Karrius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/71c47a/32.png) [@Karrius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Karrius)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-chance-so-what-is-the-official-list-of-things-you-want-me-to-remain-silent-about/673697/185 "2013-11-15T01:01:59Z")
> [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > No. Saying that blacks are genetically less intelligent is not the same as saying they are genetically subhuman. “Subhuman” is a word with a definition and that definition is not congruent with “lower than average intelligence.” The claim, was a reminder, was that the average intelligence of sub-saharan Africans was _literally mentally retarded_. This isn’t even “just a bit less IQ”, there were claims of “these people are literally mentally retarded, as a whole”. Surely, you see that as problematic, don’t you? ---
**Author:** ![sleestak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/919ad9/32.png) [@sleestak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sleestak)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-chance-so-what-is-the-official-list-of-things-you-want-me-to-remain-silent-about/673697/186 "2013-11-15T01:07:36Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > The point of drawing a line around a population and calling them less intelligent has _always_ been to portray them as lesser beings, undeserving of the consideration given to real people. Post snipped That is an interesting observation (though not true), especially considering your penchant for doing exactly that. All republicans are evil, according Der Trihs. All Christians hate and want want to kill women says Der Trihs. The vast majority of Americans want to kill brown people says Der Trihs\*. Now, of course, you’ll try to blow off this observation by stating that the groups _you_ hate and portray as lesser and thoroughly evil are in those groups by choice. Which is not always true, but it won’t stop you anyway. And you won’t even, for a second, consider that the groups you choose to run around hating have a lot of diversity of opinion and thought. You’ll just continue on in your little world of hate, painting a one word description on all those you disagree with so that it is that much easier to dismiss them as lesser beings deserving of your loathing. Slee \*Not exact quotes but Der has posted the general ideas multiple times. ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-chance-so-what-is-the-official-list-of-things-you-want-me-to-remain-silent-about/673697/187 "2013-11-15T01:34:39Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > It’s was more like a Zen koan. So I’m not getting a prize? ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-chance-so-what-is-the-official-list-of-things-you-want-me-to-remain-silent-about/673697/188 "2013-11-15T01:43:38Z")
You get eternal enlightenment. So you got that going for you. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-chance-so-what-is-the-official-list-of-things-you-want-me-to-remain-silent-about/673697/189 "2013-11-15T03:50:18Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > For most of American history virtually all whites have been racist Cite? ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-chance-so-what-is-the-official-list-of-things-you-want-me-to-remain-silent-about/673697/190 "2013-11-15T04:08:23Z")
> [@kidchameleon](#): > > Cite? Is this a serious question? If so, them respectfully you know painfully little about American history, have some absurdly distorted views on what does and doesn’t constitute racism, or are aggressively in denial of reality. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-chance-so-what-is-the-official-list-of-things-you-want-me-to-remain-silent-about/673697/191 "2013-11-15T06:14:41Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > No it’s not. A better and more accurate description would be that white Americans tend to be extremely defensive about the phrase because of the history of white people oppressing black people to the point where many on this board have insisted that the phrase “sexist” is “softer” or less of an insult. > > By contrast, for American minorities, this argument is silly. For most of American history virtually all whites have been racist so we’ve, until recently viewed them all as such. > > However, we’ve always graded them on a scale with lets say number 10 being the Grand Dragon of the KKK while number one being our white New York friend who practically pissed himself in fear when some blacks walk into the same subway car as him or our Minnesota friend who wants us to walk across the street when she sees a black man walking our way. > > BTW, I’m not trying to be insulting or dismissive. I’d simply laugh if anyone called me a racist. If someone called me a sexist or an anti-Semite, that’s a different story. I thought that was a fair distinction actually. But there’s an asymmetry between calling a person of color a racist and calling a white person that, just as there’s an asymmetry with regards to racial slurs. (And incidentally, I’d consider a racial slur against a black person to be far more toxic than calling a white person a racist - though I insist that the latter borders on fighting words and may cross over). > [@](#): > > If the people who insist that term “racist” really is this “megaton insult” that needs to be very carefully used and must never be used regarding another poster then they should grow a pair and insist that the mods should also adopt as a rule “don’t be a racist” or get rid of the “don’t be a jerk”. …but all that said, I’ve lost track of this conversation. Direct insults are only allowed in the pit anyway. And I haven’t advocated curbing the word racist in the pit. I’m not keen on the overuse of the word but guess what? I don’t see that here and I haven’t seen that in the US for the past 20+ years. I can think of one example of the word being hurled in a dubious manner in the pit - and in that case it wasn’t entirely unreasonable. ## Maybe I overstated my case in another thread. I’m having difficulty recalling. :smack: “Most of American history”. Let’s see. 2013-1776=237 years. Half of that is 118.5 - call that 120 years. Add that to 1776: that puts us at 1896. The Chinese Exclusion Act was passed in 1882. Laws in California prohibited whites from marrying Chinese until they were repealed in 1948. Never mind African Americans, the preceding laws are pretty explicitly racist. So um yeah: there’s Ibn’s citation. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-chance-so-what-is-the-official-list-of-things-you-want-me-to-remain-silent-about/673697/192 "2013-11-15T06:21:33Z")
Hm. Maybe we could roll back Ibn’s claim to “White supremacy has been the dominant ideology throughout most of US history.” Because there have been pockets of resistance to these views that might be acknowledged. From wiki I see that, “One of the critics of the Chinese Exclusion Act was the anti-slavery/anti-imperialist Republican Senator George Frisbie Hoar of Massachusetts who described the Act as “nothing less than the legalization of racial discrimination.”” ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-chance-so-what-is-the-official-list-of-things-you-want-me-to-remain-silent-about/673697/193 "2013-11-15T07:06:48Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > That’s a pretty impressive example of ignoring how the whole issue has been treated for centuries. [Quite famously](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Untermensch) in some cases. The point of drawing a line around a population and calling them less intelligent has _always_ been to portray them as lesser beings, undeserving of the consideration given to real people. And making handwaves about your preferred definition of a word won’t change that. You’re just making noise. What Roderick Femm stated was true. Nothing you said negates it. Or have you never had a logic course? ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 7:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-chance-so-what-is-the-official-list-of-things-you-want-me-to-remain-silent-about/673697/194 "2013-11-15T07:11:22Z")
> [@Karrius](#): > > Yes, the differences I see are: > > -The first ought to be moderated, especially when it’s proven that the people constantly posting the first are liars, over and over, but isn’t moderated because conservative hate speech is deemed “acceptable” by our society. :rolleyes: Nope. Care to try again? But here’s a tip, if your argument is based on the people being “liars”, you really don’t have much on your side of the debate. > [@Karrius](#): > > -The second and third are things that aren’t actually said, so nobody should really care about. > > Once again, I find it absolutely _amazing_ and completely telling how many people are willing to go to bat for the racists, consider hate speech not hate speech, and then whine they’re being discriminated against. No. People disagree with you and the other politically correct liberals as to what constitutes hate speech. Is this really so difficult for you to grasp? ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-chance-so-what-is-the-official-list-of-things-you-want-me-to-remain-silent-about/673697/195 "2013-11-15T07:15:53Z")
> [@Karrius](#): > > The claim, was a reminder, was that the average intelligence of sub-saharan Africans was _literally mentally retarded_. This isn’t even “just a bit less IQ”, there were claims of “these people are literally mentally retarded, as a whole”. > > Surely, you see that as problematic, don’t you? Can we have a site for that, in context please? I think I recall someone correcting you on this once already. Now, my memory might be failing me and you _may_ be right, but I don’t recall it as you suggest. But, I will offer that the claim you say was made seems ridiculous. Not necessarily racist, but just plain wrong. Which would make it easy to refute. No? ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 7:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-chance-so-what-is-the-official-list-of-things-you-want-me-to-remain-silent-about/673697/196 "2013-11-15T07:17:49Z")
> [@sleestak](#): > > Post snipped > > That is an interesting observation (though not true), especially considering your penchant for doing exactly that. All republicans are evil, according Der Trihs. All Christians hate and want want to kill women says Der Trihs. The vast majority of Americans want to kill brown people says Der Trihs\*. I was just about to make this very point. I’d say that no poster is as guilty of doing what he describes as himself. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 8:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-chance-so-what-is-the-official-list-of-things-you-want-me-to-remain-silent-about/673697/197 "2013-11-15T08:06:47Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > “Most of American history”. Let’s see. 2013-1776=237 years. Half of that is 118.5 - call that 120 years. Add that to 1776: that puts us at 1896. The Chinese Exclusion Act was passed in 1882. Laws in California prohibited whites from marrying Chinese until they were repealed in 1948. Never mind African Americans, the preceding laws are pretty explicitly racist. So um yeah: there’s Ibn’s citation. Not to mention t hat until 1952, by law, immigrants were only allowed to be naturalized as US citizens if they were “free white persons”, which is why only about 60% of the internees at the WWII detainment camps were citizens and of course most Americans, well into the late 1960s supported anti-misegenation laws. Also, American history started long before 1776 and racism shouldn’t be measured simply by laws. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-chance-so-what-is-the-official-list-of-things-you-want-me-to-remain-silent-about/673697/198 "2013-11-15T13:12:39Z")
[QUOTE=Karrius] The second and third are things that aren’t actually said, so nobody should really care about. [/QUOTE] Actually both have been said, by the OP. Do you have a suggestion based on what really happens? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-chance-so-what-is-the-official-list-of-things-you-want-me-to-remain-silent-about/673697/199 "2013-11-15T13:53:23Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Actually both have been said, by the OP. Do you have a suggestion based on what really happens? > > Regards, > Shodan That and worse. If I had the time I’d like to compile a Best of Der Trihs. I just don’t know if it would make me really sad or never stop laughing. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-chance-so-what-is-the-official-list-of-things-you-want-me-to-remain-silent-about/673697/200 "2013-11-15T14:05:25Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Can we have a site for that, in context please? I think I recall someone correcting you on this once already. > > Now, my memory might be failing me and you _may_ be right, but I don’t recall it as you suggest. But, I will offer that the claim you say was made seems ridiculous. Not necessarily racist, but just plain wrong. Which would make it easy to refute. No? If I understand the topic under discussion, the issue was the mean IQ of 70 that the _Bell Curve_ authors “found” in sub-Saharan Africa. In the US, persons with IQs below 70 are mentally retarded as a matter of law. ---
**Author:** ![TubaDiva](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tubadiva/32/507_2.png) [@TubaDiva](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TubaDiva)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-chance-so-what-is-the-official-list-of-things-you-want-me-to-remain-silent-about/673697/201 "2013-11-15T14:43:59Z")
* * * > [@magellan01](#): > > You’re just making noise. What Roderick Femm stated was true. Nothing you said negates it. Or have you never had a logic course? \*\*MODERATOR NOTE:\*\*This forum is not The Pit. If you have a problem with another poster, that’s where you need to take your disagreements/express your uncivil opinions. Dial down the rhetoric in About This Message Board, take it elsewhere. **Formal warnings next.** [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-chance-so-what-is-the-official-list-of-things-you-want-me-to-remain-silent-about/673697.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-chance-so-what-is-the-official-list-of-things-you-want-me-to-remain-silent-about/673697.md?page=11)