# Jonathan Chance: So What is the Official List of Things You Want Me to Remain Silent About **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [November 12, 2013, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-chance-so-what-is-the-official-list-of-things-you-want-me-to-remain-silent-about/673697 "2013-11-12T03:49:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-chance-so-what-is-the-official-list-of-things-you-want-me-to-remain-silent-about/673697/102 "2013-11-13T12:05:25Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > :dubious: Every post claiming that blacks are genetically less intelligent is saying _exactly that._ There are regularly _entire threads_ on the subject. It’s a tone thing. Because really, I think what gets people modded isn’t so much their policies as their tone. If somebody says, “Blacks are all genetically subhuman”, they run the risk of moderation, while if they say “A study by Racist Scientist X published in The Journal of White Supremacist Medicine shows that on average, American blacks have an IQ 10 points lower than whites and says there’s a genetic basis”, probably won’t be. Likewise, saying “Republicans all hate women and want to see them suffer” runs a risk of being modded, while “The positions of the Republican Party seem to be consistently hostile to women, from their strict anti-abortion stance, to their hostility towards insurance coverage of contraceptives and other female health issues, to their opposition to equal pay legislation.” probably won’t be. “Blacks are subhuman” and “Republicans hate women” are pit talk, while the others above are more Great Debatey. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-chance-so-what-is-the-official-list-of-things-you-want-me-to-remain-silent-about/673697/103 "2013-11-13T13:29:37Z")
A warning for this: > [@](#): > > No; that’s creating a false equivalence between the parties. The present-day Right is far more intransigent; if anything, the Democrats aren’t partisan enough. The Democrats have a history of caving in, not of being unwilling to cooperate. And in my opinion that has heavily contributed to the problem; by caving in so much to the Republicans, they have inadvertently helped the rise of the kinds of Republicans who push for things like the government shutdown and who refuse to cooperate or compromise in any way. Behavior that is rewarded tends to be repeated; since they’ve gotten so much out of the Democrats that way, why stop now? Seriously? JC needs his moderating privileges removed. He doesn’t even begin to get it. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-chance-so-what-is-the-official-list-of-things-you-want-me-to-remain-silent-about/673697/104 "2013-11-13T14:06:26Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > But to infer from this that some sort of _vox populi_ could lead to increased moderation of any poster is incorrect. I would be grateful if that wasn’t the takeaway here as it’s untrue. It will remain untrue for any poster. I disagree with this. It’s very true for all posters (as well as for all people IRL, BTW). I also disagree with the implied claim that since you are yourself a moderator that you have a more definitive opinion about matters of this sort. You would obviously have more insight as to what you and other staff are consciously thinking, but as regards to the overall dynamic, you would have less insight, if anything. No one likes to think of themselves as being influenced by bias or other non-rational influences, but they exist nonetheless, and an outside observer is better positioned to assess them. > [@Crazyhorse](#): > > It has long been my understanding that the moderation staff here does not intervene in factual disputes by demanding a poster provide factual basis for their claims or shut up, which is basically what JC is doing here. In other cases in the past I can recall mods saying that if a poster makes claims without any factual basis they will be proven wrong and/or ignored by other posters, and there is no need for moderators to start deciding whose arguments have more merit than others. There’s a difference between such claims about offensive inflammatory subjects and such claims about neutral matters. > [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > It’s a tone thing. Because really, I think what gets people modded isn’t so much their policies as their tone. If somebody says, “Blacks are all genetically subhuman”, they run the risk of moderation, while if they say “A study by Racist Scientist X published in The Journal of White Supremacist Medicine shows that on average, American blacks have an IQ 10 points lower than whites and says there’s a genetic basis”, probably won’t be. > > Likewise, saying “Republicans all hate women and want to see them suffer” runs a risk of being modded, while “The positions of the Republican Party seem to be consistently hostile to women, from their strict anti-abortion stance, to their hostility towards insurance coverage of contraceptives and other female health issues, to their opposition to equal pay legislation.” probably won’t be. > > “Blacks are subhuman” and “Republicans hate women” are pit talk, while the others above are more Great Debatey. What you’re describing is not a “tone thing” but a difference in ascribed motivation. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-chance-so-what-is-the-official-list-of-things-you-want-me-to-remain-silent-about/673697/105 "2013-11-13T14:21:15Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > :dubious: Every post claiming that blacks are genetically less intelligent is saying _exactly that._ There are regularly _entire threads_ on the subject. Not surprising. I didn’t think you’d be able to quote one. You know, that is exactly the technique that Ann Coulter uses when asked to give specific examples. _Q: In your new book, you say Democrats are Traitors. Which Democrats do you mean-- can you give an example? A: All of them. Q: No, give me a name. A: Well, there are so many, I don’t know where to begin. Q: Pick one. Give me one name. A: I’m trying to, but you keep interrupting me._ And so it goes. Take that into consideration if you want to understand what is going on here. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-chance-so-what-is-the-official-list-of-things-you-want-me-to-remain-silent-about/673697/106 "2013-11-13T14:35:07Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Not surprising. I didn’t think you’d be able to quote one. 😕 DT is correct that there have been several threads at least on the subject of whether blacks are on average of lesser intelligence than whites for genetic reasons. I’m not sure whether you’re unaware of all this or are making some subtle distinction. [Personally, I think there’s a huge difference between saying that Group A is on average less intelligent than Group B and saying that Group A is of subhuman intelligence. The latter formulation is more offensive and also something that no one has claimed here, to my knowledge. Specifically, no one is claiming that such differences as may exist put blacks, on average, outside of normal human intelligence.] ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-chance-so-what-is-the-official-list-of-things-you-want-me-to-remain-silent-about/673697/107 "2013-11-13T14:51:15Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > [Personally, I think there’s a huge difference between saying that Group A is on average less intelligent than Group B and saying that Group A is of subhuman intelligence. The latter formulation is more offensive and also something that no one has claimed here, to my knowledge. Specifically, no one is claiming that such differences as may exist put blacks, on average, outside of normal human intelligence.] As at least some of these threads involve people extrapolating “Group A is on average less intelligent than Group B” out to “…and that’s why they have more crime/poor school results/fewer technologicial achievements/less great literature/etc”, it’s a little more than such a commentary on a statistical anomaly. Plus, as the context is virtually always about _genetic_ differences where Group A (and indeed Group B) is not remotely genetically similar, it all gets nasty very quickly. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-chance-so-what-is-the-official-list-of-things-you-want-me-to-remain-silent-about/673697/108 "2013-11-13T15:11:40Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > 😕 DT is correct that there have been several threads at least on the subject of whether blacks are on average of lesser intelligence than whites for genetic reasons. I’m not sure whether you’re unaware of all this or are making some subtle distinction. I asked for a quote where someone posted that blacks were “genetically subhuman” and they didn’t get mod’ed. That was the claim. If there area so many, then quote one. It should be easy. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-chance-so-what-is-the-official-list-of-things-you-want-me-to-remain-silent-about/673697/109 "2013-11-13T15:15:01Z")
Does anyone see any difference between the following - [ul][li]Here is a cite showing that, when you correct for SES and parental education levels, group X tends to score somewhat lower on SAT tests. Is it possible that part of this might be due to genetic differences?[/li][li]The great majority of US citizens kill brown people for fun[/li][li]Anti-abortionists want to kill women with clubs.[/ul][/li] Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-chance-so-what-is-the-official-list-of-things-you-want-me-to-remain-silent-about/673697/110 "2013-11-13T15:24:49Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > As at least some of these threads involve people extrapolating “Group A is on average less intelligent than Group B” out to “…and that’s why they have more crime/poor school results/fewer technologicial achievements/less great literature/etc”, it’s a little more than such a commentary on a statistical anomaly. Plus, as the context is virtually always about _genetic_ differences where Group A (and indeed Group B) is not remotely genetically similar, it all gets nasty very quickly. Understood. But that doesn’t relate to my point. To put numbers on it, suppose someone claims that the average IQ of whites is 105 and the average for blacks is 95, purely for genetic reasons. And that this difference results in more crime etc. etc. That’s still not the same thing as saying blacks are genetically subhuman, because a 95 IQ is not a subhuman IQ level. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-chance-so-what-is-the-official-list-of-things-you-want-me-to-remain-silent-about/673697/111 "2013-11-13T15:25:39Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Does anyone see any difference between the following - > [ul][li]Here is a cite showing that, when you correct for SES and parental education levels, group X tends to score somewhat lower on SAT tests. Is it possible that part of this might be due to genetic differences?[/li][li]The great majority of US citizens kill brown people for fun[/li][li]Anti-abortionists want to kill women with clubs.[/ul][/li] > Regards, > Shodan The ones targeted by DT are not asking “is it possible that part of this might be due to genetic differences”, they are saying “black people, on average, have inferior genes for intelligence”. And some even say “black people, on average, are genetically inherently more inclined to crime/violence/aggression”. This is different than the way you characterize it. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-chance-so-what-is-the-official-list-of-things-you-want-me-to-remain-silent-about/673697/112 "2013-11-13T15:28:52Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > The ones targeted by DT are not asking “is it possible that part of this might be due to genetic differences”, they are saying “black people, on average, have inferior genes for intelligence”. And some even say “black people, on average, are genetically inherently more inclined to crime/violence/aggression”. > > This is different than the way you characterize it. Put either of those statements in **Shodan’s** list, and the point is the same. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-chance-so-what-is-the-official-list-of-things-you-want-me-to-remain-silent-about/673697/113 "2013-11-13T15:29:47Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Understood. But that doesn’t relate to my point. > > To put numbers on it, suppose someone claims that the average IQ of whites is 105 and the average for blacks is 95, purely for genetic reasons. And that this difference results in more crime etc. etc. That’s still not the same thing as saying blacks are genetically subhuman, because a 95 IQ is not a subhuman IQ level. How much of a range difference would, then? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-chance-so-what-is-the-official-list-of-things-you-want-me-to-remain-silent-about/673697/114 "2013-11-13T15:33:48Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Understood. But that doesn’t relate to my point. > > To put numbers on it, suppose someone claims that the average IQ of whites is 105 and the average for blacks is 95, purely for genetic reasons. And that this difference results in more crime etc. etc. That’s still not the same thing as saying blacks are genetically subhuman, because a 95 IQ is not a subhuman IQ level. I was only addressing your indication of confusion and your claim that “ **DT** is correct”. That is factually incorrect. Honestly, your 2nd paragraph didn’t make a lot of sense in light of the first. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-chance-so-what-is-the-official-list-of-things-you-want-me-to-remain-silent-about/673697/115 "2013-11-13T15:36:27Z")
I had misread your post. My apologies. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-chance-so-what-is-the-official-list-of-things-you-want-me-to-remain-silent-about/673697/116 "2013-11-13T15:55:06Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > How much of a range difference would, then? None. There is no definition of an IQ level that makes someone “subhuman”. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-chance-so-what-is-the-official-list-of-things-you-want-me-to-remain-silent-about/673697/117 "2013-11-13T15:58:39Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > This is different than the way you characterize it. No, as a matter of fact it isn’t. Nonetheless, do you understand the difference between “here is a topic for debate” and “X group is evil and wants people to suffer and die and I hate them”? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-chance-so-what-is-the-official-list-of-things-you-want-me-to-remain-silent-about/673697/118 "2013-11-13T16:01:30Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > None. There is no definition of an IQ level that makes someone “subhuman”. I totally agree…but since **Fotheringay-Phipps** said > [@](#): > > That’s still not the same thing as saying blacks are genetically subhuman, because a 95 IQ is not a subhuman IQ level. , I would like to know if he thinks there _is_ one and, if so, what it might be. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-chance-so-what-is-the-official-list-of-things-you-want-me-to-remain-silent-about/673697/119 "2013-11-13T16:02:24Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > No, as a matter of fact it isn’t. Yes it is. > [@](#): > > Nonetheless, do you understand the difference between “here is a topic for debate” and “X group is evil and wants people to suffer and die and I hate them”? > > Regards, > Shodan They (some of them, anyway) are stating outright that one group is inherently inferior, on average, in qualities like intelligence, due to genes. Nonetheless, I try to avoid attacking or assuming motives. I think, basically, **DT** would avoid any of this trouble if he just didn’t attack anyone else’s motives. It’s not hard to attack positions without attacking motives. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-chance-so-what-is-the-official-list-of-things-you-want-me-to-remain-silent-about/673697/120 "2013-11-13T16:07:09Z")
Stating that someone has a lower IQ is not the same as saying they are inferior. If you have a lower IQ than I do, does that make you “inferior”? ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-chance-so-what-is-the-official-list-of-things-you-want-me-to-remain-silent-about/673697/121 "2013-11-13T16:15:31Z")
> [@Giraffe](#): > > I think the rules should be that everyone has to agree that both sides are equally good. Naw… Look at the mission of _your_ board. We have to agree that both sides are equally _cunts._ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-chance-so-what-is-the-official-list-of-things-you-want-me-to-remain-silent-about/673697.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-chance-so-what-is-the-official-list-of-things-you-want-me-to-remain-silent-about/673697.md?page=7)